What pedal to emulate Crunch while in Blues mode?

[ddmeburger]

From another thread:

.....The clean and blues is what I use. I just wished there was a switch for those 2 on the pedal.

There is - they're on separate channels. Clean and Crunch are my favorites. Being able to switch between those two would be great!

I feel like these two are the strong points of the amp. It’s a shame they’re juxtaposed.

Bought mine used a year ago and it's treated me well so far. As much as I love Crunch, to meet the majority of my tonal cravings I've settled on Clean & Blues, and hit Blues with a fuzz, overdrive, and distortion to change my dirt up. I don't have the Blues gain that high, generally around 12:30 to 1 o'clock. This meets my low-gain needs, and allows my London Fuzz and Tube Driver to shine.

However, I cannot get my few distortion pedals to emulate the Crunch channel. My main one, a Keeley DS-1 can't get a balanced sound top to bottom, and sounds a bit thin on the underside. The guys at the shop said to try an OCD. I live in an area where there aren't any places that carry boutique, or a large selection of used, pedals. They do have an OCD, but I'm looking for suggestions and don't want to limit my options.

Thoughts?

 

[Krek13]

use the blues mode as your clean channel and crunch mode for drive

IMO it's nonsense to use OD/drive pedals with this amp...

 

[sax4blues]

use the blues mode as your clean channel and crunch mode for drive

IMO it's nonsense to use OD/drive pedals with this amp...

+1

I find the "Blues" mode very versatile with good clean to mild crunch range. It was kind of a mindset thing with me to get over the "first" channel and "second" channel thing. They are just two "different" channels. In my playing I don't switch between channels in a song so I don't use the foot switch, I just switch at the amp for the song I'm going to play.

 

[ddmeburger]

Been there, done that (flipping channels so green is dirty via Crunch and red is clean via Blues with gain at 10:00), even during my test drive at the store, and was quite impressed. However, I switch sounds all the time in the same song, so if I go green-Crunch and red-Blues (set very clean), I'm limiting myself.

I like the Crunch gain to be at about 2 o'clock, which makes overdrive, fuzz, and distortion pedals unable to impart their own flavor on the tone. The only thing Crunch can take at that particular level of saturation is my Germania. This sounds really good, like a modded Marshall where the notes just explode off the pick. But doing this limits me to 3 sounds - distorted, modded, and clean.

So I want versatility at my feet without toggling at the amp - can't do that multiple times per song! I had Loopmaster build me a pedal so I could switch between these different in-line pedals AND change channels with a single stomp - absolutely no tap dancing here! Going the green-Clean and red-Blues route gives me six sounds with my pedals - Clean, light overdrive (straight Blues at 1:00), fuzz, overdrive, overdrive + Germania (again, notes exploding off of pick), and distortion. All dirt goes into Blues, which being less saturated, lets the other dirt pedals come thorough loud and clear.

So I can get 5 of the 6 sounds I want. Selfishly trying to go 6 for 6, I just want a distortion pedal in Blues (again, 1:00) that mimics Crunch at about 2:00.

 

[Newysurfer]

Been there, done that (flipping channels so green is dirty via Crunch and red is clean via Blues with gain at 10:00), even during my test drive at the store, and was quite impressed. However, I switch sounds all the time in the same song, so if I go green-Crunch and red-Blues (set very clean), I'm limiting myself.

I like the Crunch gain to be at about 2 o'clock, which makes overdrive, fuzz, and distortion pedals unable to impart their own flavor on the tone. The only thing Crunch can take at that particular level of saturation is my Germania. This sounds really good, like a modded Marshall where the notes just explode off the pick. But doing this limits me to 3 sounds - distorted, modded, and clean.

So I want versatility at my feet without toggling at the amp - can't do that multiple times per song! I had Loopmaster build me a pedal so I could switch between these different in-line pedals AND change channels with a single stomp - absolutely no tap dancing here! Going the green-Clean and red-Blues route gives me six sounds with my pedals - Clean, light overdrive (straight Blues at 1:00), fuzz, overdrive, overdrive + Germania (again, notes exploding off of pick), and distortion. All dirt goes into Blues, which being less saturated, lets the other dirt pedals come thorough loud and clear.

So I can get 5 of the 6 sounds I want. Selfishly trying to go 6 for 6, I just want a distortion pedal in Blues (again, 1:00) that mimics Crunch at about 2:00.

No distortion pedal (or any pedal) will deliver the 5:50's Crunch channel imo.
Distortion is different from crunch ... that's why they're different voices on the amp
I have an OCD and there's no 5:50 type crunch in it anywhere no matter how you set an amp.

When I want crunch I use the 5:50's crunch voice
When I want modern Mesa distortion I use the 5:50's burn channel.
When I want a high gain Marshall JCM flavour of distortion I use my Crunchbox pedal thru either the clean channel OR the blues channel with gain set very low.
When I want Fuzz I run my AM Astrotone pedal thru either the clean channel OR the blues channel with gain set very low.
I don't do any toggling of switches at the amp mid song - just turn on & off a few foot switches

My OCD is on a 2nd backup board that rarely gets play time.
I much prefer the Crunchbox myself :mrgreen:

So to answer your Q about crunch tones - forget pedals - use the amp

 

[Krek13]

Been there, done that (flipping channels so green is dirty via Crunch and red is clean via Blues with gain at 10:00), even during my test drive at the store, and was quite impressed. However, I switch sounds all the time in the same song, so if I go green-Crunch and red-Blues (set very clean), I'm limiting myself.

I like the Crunch gain to be at about 2 o'clock, which makes overdrive, fuzz, and distortion pedals unable to impart their own flavor on the tone. The only thing Crunch can take at that particular level of saturation is my Germania. This sounds really good, like a modded Marshall where the notes just explode off the pick. But doing this limits me to 3 sounds - distorted, modded, and clean.

So I want versatility at my feet without toggling at the amp - can't do that multiple times per song! I had Loopmaster build me a pedal so I could switch between these different in-line pedals AND change channels with a single stomp - absolutely no tap dancing here! Going the green-Clean and red-Blues route gives me six sounds with my pedals - Clean, light overdrive (straight Blues at 1:00), fuzz, overdrive, overdrive + Germania (again, notes exploding off of pick), and distortion. All dirt goes into Blues, which being less saturated, lets the other dirt pedals come thorough loud and clear.

So I can get 5 of the 6 sounds I want. Selfishly trying to go 6 for 6, I just want a distortion pedal in Blues (again, 1:00) that mimics Crunch at about 2:00.

you should learn how to use the volume pot of your guitar

 

[melodiusthunk]

Have you looked at the Wampler Plexidrive? I use it on the Express clean channel & with the pedal gain set above noon, it gets into "crunch" territory.

 

[ddmeburger]

Thanks for the suggestion, Melodius.

I'm using my custom Loopmaster to emulate a 3 amp rig out of a two channel amp - it's a pretty sweet concept. This pedal allows each 'amp' to have its own inline effects, just like EJ's 3 amp rig, though with a single amp, as long as you're happy with both of your amp's channels (my 5:50 fits that bill). So I don't/can't have any dirt on my green side, as this is my Clean signal path, and all the effects in this chain are for pristine clean sounds. If I introduce a dirt pedal, I'd have to tap dance with the non-dirt pedals in the path when toggling back and forth between clean and distorted sounds, which is exactly what the Loopmaster is allowing me to avoid.

I would like to pursue both a Wampler and a Crunchbox based on their rep and you guys recommendations, and put it into one of the two 'amps' on the Red channel, as it could be the ticket! Problem is I don't think there's any place close I can test-drive many boutiques.

 

[Newysurfer]

Thanks for the suggestion, Melodius.

I'm using my custom Loopmaster to emulate a 3 amp rig out of a two channel amp - it's a pretty sweet concept. This pedal allows each 'amp' to have its own inline effects, just like EJ's 3 amp rig, though with a single amp, as long as you're happy with both of your amp's channels (my 5:50 fits that bill). So I don't/can't have any dirt on my green side, as this is my Clean signal path, and all the effects in this chain are for pristine clean sounds. If I introduce a dirt pedal, I'd have to tap dance with the non-dirt pedals in the path when toggling back and forth between clean and distorted sounds, which is exactly what the Loopmaster is allowing me to avoid.

I would like to pursue both a Wampler and a Crunchbox based on their rep and you guys recommendations, and put it into one of the two 'amps' on the Red channel, as it could be the ticket! Problem is I don't think there's any place close I can test-drive many boutiques.

ahh I think there's some confusion over terminology here - at least I'm confused.
The crunch voice on the 5:50 is not a distortion tone imo - it's a slightly overdriven crunch tone.
Pedals like the MI Audio Crunchbox are high gain distortion pedals that sound like cranked Marshall JCM amps on steroids
It doesn't sound anything like the 5:50's crunch voice.
This is what it sounds like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goQ0CJNmb30

The Wampler Plexitron pedal sounds similar to the CB but has a lot less gain than the CB - just like a real Plexi has less gain than the JCMs.
Neither are similar to the 5:50's crunch voice at all.

So what do you want Dave - distortion or crunch ??

 

[ddmeburger]

ahh I think there's some confusion over terminology here - at least I'm confused. The crunch voice on the 5:50 is not a distortion tone imo - it's a slightly overdriven crunch tone. Pedals like the MI Audio Crunchbox are high gain distortion pedals that sound like cranked Marshall JCM amps on steroids. It doesn't sound anything like the 5:50's crunch voice.

This is what it sounds like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goQ0CJNmb30

The Wampler Plexitron pedal sounds similar to the CB but has a lot less gain than the CB - just like a real Plexi has less gain than the JCMs. Neither are similar the 5:50's crunch voice at all. So what do you want Dave - distortion or crunch ??

Crunch --> Trevor Rabin's 90125/Big Generator or Michael Schenker/UFO's Walk On Water. Their MV Marshalls have a balanced sizzle that Crunch can get me with my LP's EJs. Overdrive to me is when you take a slightly gritty sound of an amp that's just starting to show a little bit of hair, and push it into a grainy kind of distortion (without the sizzle), such as a Blues Driver with the gain set below half into a clean amp. So I'm calling Crunch with the gain set at 2 o'clock or above Distortion, and Blues with the gain set at 1 o'clock light overdrive.

As for the Wampler pedal I mentioned, looking at their site, it looks like the Plextortion would be more in line with my needs based on demo sounds between the Crunchbox, Plextortion, and Plexidrive. It seems to have that balanced spectrum thing going on.

 

[Newysurfer]

ahh I think there's some confusion over terminology here - at least I'm confused. The crunch voice on the 5:50 is not a distortion tone imo - it's a slightly overdriven crunch tone. Pedals like the MI Audio Crunchbox are high gain distortion pedals that sound like cranked Marshall JCM amps on steroids. It doesn't sound anything like the 5:50's crunch voice.

This is what it sounds like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goQ0CJNmb30

The Wampler Plexitron pedal sounds similar to the CB but has a lot less gain than the CB - just like a real Plexi has less gain than the JCMs. Neither are similar the 5:50's crunch voice at all. So what do you want Dave - distortion or crunch ??

Crunch --> Trevor Rabin's 90125/Big Generator or Michael Schenker/UFO's Walk On Water. Their MV Marshalls have a balanced sizzle that Crunch can get me with my LP's EJs. Overdrive to me is when you take a slightly gritty sound of an amp that's just starting to show a little bit of hair, and push it into a grainy kind of distortion (without the sizzle), such as a Blues Driver with the gain set below half into a clean amp. So I'm calling Crunch with the gain set at 2 o'clock or above Distortion, and Blues with the gain set at 1 o'clock light overdrive.

As for the Wampler pedal I mentioned, looking at their site, it looks like the Plextortion would be more in line with my needs based on demo sounds between the Crunchbox, Plextortion, and Plexidrive. It seems to have that balanced spectrum thing going on.

hehehehe Dave - I call the Wampler Plexitortion a straight out Marshall JCM800 distortion clone pedal.
Doesn't sound anything like the 5:50's Crunch voice to me :mrgreen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DdruianYYA

Similar with the Plexidrive - it's a JTM45 clone pedal - doesn't sound anything like any Mesa I've heard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHUTTv_cwVg

I really like both these Wampler pedals but...........
You were never gonna get those tones from the 5:50 or any Mesa.
They look like good add-ons for a 5:50 pedal board for that very reason :mrgreen:

 

[melodiusthunk]

YA

Similar with the Plexidrive - it's a JTM45 clone pedal - doesn't sound anything like any Mesa I've heard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHUTTv_cwVg

I really like both these Wampler pedals but...........
You were never gonna get those tones from the 5:50 or any Mesa.
They look like good add-ons for a 5:50 pedal board for that very reason :mrgreen:

I have to agree on all points, but would just add that I have tried both the CB & the Plexidrive, with the result that the Plexidrive stayed, CB was sold. I found the CB was just too over the top for me, too muddy. I never tried it with an 18V PS however, which some have said results in better note definition at high gain with this pedal. I ended up choosing the Wampler Pinnacle for my high gain, cheap petrol, actions have no consequence EVH-type sound.

The really nice thing about the Plexidrive is that you can actually use it as an overdrive versus a straight up distortion. Thus I have found some really nice settings where I combine the gain from this pedal with the internal gain from the Mesa. Behave very differently in 5W vs 50W mode too, will easily push the 5W power section into "Crunch" and beyond. Very quiet switcher too. I don't use the base boost much, since the Mesa has plenty on tap already. All said, I consider the Plexidrive to be a permanent resident on my board.

You might also want to consider getting a good compressor if you don't already have one.

P.S. I neglected to add that I usually don't use overdrive or distortion pedals when playing in 5W mode, since I've found that this scenario is the most likely to introduce the dreaded "base buzz" in my 5:50 combo. The Mesa drive options, however, largely avoid this problem provided the Mid and Base EQ settings stay within recommended optimum range for the gain I'm using.

 

[Newysurfer]

Thx Melodius :mrgreen:
I've been on TPG trying to find out the differences between the Plextortion & the Crunchbox from people who've owned both. No luck so far.
I use my CB on 18v & don't need/want a pedal for low gain OD tones as I use either the 5:50, or my Maxon TS-808 tubescreamer for that.
Also have a Fulldrive 2 Mosfet.

But I luv those Marshall JCM / JTM distortion tones and am in the market for a pedal for my 2nd board.
How wud you describe the tone differences between the distortion tones on the Plexidrive as compared to the Crunchbox ??
Do they both have similar amounts of gain.
And what about noise levels.

The Plexidrive or another Crunchbox would replace my OCD on the 2nd board -
It doesn't have enuf gain & is not Marshall enuf for me :mrgreen:

 

[elvis]

Try BB Pre.

 

[Wolfboy1]

Only you know the sound you are looking for but I have found the Wampler Pinnacle was able to give me an awesome tone range beyond/different/interesting compared to what the amp itself offers. I have only tried the pinnacle of those mentioned but I love it.

 

[ddmeburger]

Only you know the sound you are looking for but I have found the Wampler Pinnacle was able to give me an awesome tone range beyond/different/interesting compared to what the amp itself offers. I have only tried the pinnacle of those mentioned but I love it.

I had an eye opener about ten yrs ago with a Blackstone Appliance Mosfet Overdrive that sounded incredible in all its modes into my clean Fender, but sounded like absolute *ss through my Budda Twinmaster. So I never bank completely on what something sounds like unless it's through my stuff.

Having said that, I was at GC yesterday, and though they have a lot of good 'dirty stuff' based on rep nothing overly appealed to me. If something did/does, I'll take my LP and 5:50 over for a test drive.

I just looked at Wampler's site, and there are no dealers anywhere near here (so I'll be checking our GC site's used inventory every couple of days). I really want to take a few of those for a spin, as I'm betting one will do what I want, but it will probably be one that I don't expect - hence the need to try them all. :mrgreen:

Thanks to all for the suggestions.....

 

[Reif]

I agree with Krek that the Express has all the OD/Distortion anyone could reasonably want right in the box. I don't get the mania to get a Marshall tone from a Mesa, or any other amp. Isn't that what Marshalls are for?

 

[Newysurfer]

I agree with Krek that the Express has all the OD/Distortion anyone could reasonably want right in the box. I don't get the mania to get a Marshall tone from a Mesa, or any other amp. Isn't that what Marshalls are for?

yes of course and you can't get any Marshall like tones from a 5:50 anyways so anyone who's trying is wasting their time hehehe :mrgreen:

 

[ddmeburger]

So I want versatility at my feet, so I had Loopmaster build me a pedal so I could switch between these different in-line pedals AND change channels with a single stomp - absolutely no tap dancing here! Going the green-Clean and red-Blues route gives me six sounds with my pedals - Clean, light overdrive (straight Blues at 1:00), fuzz, overdrive, overdrive + Germania (again, notes exploding off of pick), and distortion. All dirt goes into Blues, which being less saturated at 1:00, lets the other dirt pedals come thorough loud and clear.

So I can get 5 of the 6 sounds I want. Selfishly trying to go 6 for 6, I just want a distortion pedal in Blues (again, gain at 1:00) that mimics Crunch at about 2:00.

Mission accomplished. Picked up a Marshall Guv'nor MkI from its inaugural year for a seriously dirt cheap price. Cosmetically it's not in pristine condition, but it is not close to being beaten to death, either. Electronically it's fine. I am now sonically 6 for 6, having all 6 sounds available out of the 5:50 I was shooting for from a 2 channel amp using Loopmaster's Clean/Dirty channel switcher with a subloop for my fuzz. In fact, the Guv'nor can pretty much emulate the entire range of the the Crunch mode in Blues mode with the amp's gain at 1 o'clock, and can provide a bit more sizzle than what's available in Crunch, if you so desire. Nice ' MV-Marshall-in-a-box' pedal with a slightly pushed amp.

Who says you can't have your cake and eat it too? Now I just have to figure out what pedals I want to put in the Guv'nor's effects loop.....

 

[NomadExpress]

Let's say my King of Tone is an additive effect in regards to extending the functionality and tone of my 5:25