Using the GEQ more effectively - I'm hung up on the 'V'!

[MusicManJP6]

I seem to be stuck in the 'V' shape on the GEQ. I use that shape for IIC+ and it sounds great. I'm sure there are other shapes that sound great, but I never venture outside of the 'V. I'm interested in how everyone else uses the GEQ to achieve the tones they are after. I am sure the V limits the tones that can be coaxed out of this amp. I'm sure I just need to experiment, but thought I'd get some insight from the board until I have a chance to play again...

 

[niilz]

I found some sweetspots with this/similar G-EQ settings in crunch/Mark I/Mark IIc+/Mark IV/Extreme mode...

 

[badjohnny]

I've never had a GEQ on my amps. So I have a question: if mids are what allows a guitar to cut through in the mix, why is scooping the mids supposed to be such a good idea? sounds great on its own but I would think it wouldn't be what you wanted in a live band or even in a recording.

Johnny

 

[MusicManJP6]

I've never had a GEQ on my amps. So I have a question: if mids are what allows a guitar to cut through in the mix, why is scooping the mids supposed to be such a good idea? sounds great on its own but I would think it wouldn't be what you wanted in a live band or even in a recording.

Johnny

Mesas have LOTS of mids so scooping them still allows plenty through in most cases.

 

[niilz]

I've never had a GEQ on my amps. So I have a question: if mids are what allows a guitar to cut through in the mix, why is scooping the mids supposed to be such a good idea? sounds great on its own but I would think it wouldn't be what you wanted in a live band or even in a recording.

Johnny

Mesas have LOTS of mids so scooping them still allows plenty through in most cases.

Well, I wouldn't drop the 750Hz slider all the way down to the bottom... :twisted:

 

[MusicManJP6]

I've never had a GEQ on my amps. So I have a question: if mids are what allows a guitar to cut through in the mix, why is scooping the mids supposed to be such a good idea? sounds great on its own but I would think it wouldn't be what you wanted in a live band or even in a recording.

Johnny

Mesas have LOTS of mids so scooping them still allows plenty through in most cases.

Well, I wouldn't drop the 750Hz slider all the way down to the bottom... :twisted:

Me neither! Tone tends to sound a little thin if you do.

 

[emperor_black]

I never got good tones with the classic 'V' shape. Mine is more like a 'W'. And I get real-thick lows which sound horribly good with a drop-C guitar with beefy slinky Ernie balls.

 

[MusicManJP6]

I played with the EQ last night and the 'W' shape sounds pretty good. I couldn't get on with your EQ settings though, niilz. I ended up turning the EQ off after it started messing with my ears and was pretty happy with the tones. IIC+, triode, low gain, and no EQ sounds pretty awesome with some delay.

 

[Heritage Softail]

In MK1, I like left side of the EQ low and the rest of the sliders moving steadily upward as you go right. Bass and Mid rotary knobs down low as well. Gain down and Volume up. For Tweed playing Sultans era Dire Straits the small case v is good, not the capital V degree of scoop. The scoop sound is why I bought the Boogie anyway. My Roland Jazz Chorus is good for that "other" Pat Metheny - American Garage type vibe.

 

[ryjan]

I have found a killer thick, thick tone if you keep the first and last sliders around 75-80%, the 240 and 2200 sliders slightly above those at say, 90-95% and scoop the 750 slider to taste. To avoid confusion 0% would be the slider all the way down and 100% is all the way to the top. It should look like a deranged "m". I think this allows you to drop the 750 down further without it becomming thin.

 

[phyrexia]

this is how i've been rolling. this requires high master and output settings though. i'm only using the geq on channel 3.

it is not all that scooped sounding like this though. enlarged low end is my main goal.

 

[MusicManJP6]

I'll try those two EQ settings. I'll try out your settings too, Phyrexia. Is that Fat, Edge, and IIC+ mode I see?

 

[niilz]

I couldn't get on with your EQ settings though, niilz.

Well, that's what I like about the Mark series amps - they can be dialed in to fit your guitar/strings/picks/playing style/speaker cabinet etc. I am not surprised that my settings do not work for you since they are exactly what I need in my situation. Anyway - I am just (home)recording a song with this setting and I'll post you a link when it is finished.

 

[phyrexia]

I'll try those two EQ settings. I'll try out your settings too, Phyrexia. Is that Fat, Edge, and IIC+ mode I see?

That day, that was Tweed/I/IIC+. I was experimenting with 'mild dirt' / 'big bassy distortion' / 'tighter more aggressive distortion'. but my ch3 settings have remained about the same. (would never dream of those Edge settings. I don't want to have my head cut off!)

normally I'm fat/edge/depends. but i do love that I can be in any mode in the amp and happy. not so with the rectifiers, for me.

anybody notice the difference in ch masters between my Ch1 and Ch3? Tweed mode is a LOUD LOUD LOUD setting.

 

[dmcguitar]

phrexia, are you in the same room when playing that amp? i know its only the combo but thats gotta be some serious volume.
I was at rudy's in new york the other day jammin through the head / recto 4x12 combo, im pretty sure i wasnt anywhere near those volumes and i was really loud.

anyway tone wise, has anyone, or can anyone try to cop a few petrucci tones? (i didnt look trhough the official settings yet) i am planning on ordering a head around christmas (does anyone know when mesa shuts down and stops taking orders during holiday time?) and wanted to know if the guitar tone off of "Live at the marquee" (specifically those opening chords to metropolis, when everyone kicks in) ... and coversely if the tones off of the new album, like the first two songs are achieveable (probalby more-so in a recording situation, since he used II and IVs and they might be mixed on it.) so if anyone has settings that can do that, id much appreciate it.. of if you wanna point me to the right thread..

thanks (not to hijack the thread, but at least when i get the head i dont have to search for tone settings, since i can just click view my posts)

 

[jtroska]

I seem to be stuck in the 'V' shape on the GEQ. I use that shape for IIC+ and it sounds great. I'm sure there are other shapes that sound great, but I never venture outside of the 'V. I'm interested in how everyone else uses the GEQ to achieve the tones they are after. I am sure the V limits the tones that can be coaxed out of this amp. I'm sure I just need to experiment, but thought I'd get some insight from the board until I have a chance to play again...

Getting a good tone can be tricky for many reasons. One, the Fletcher/Munson curve makes tone appear to sound different at different volume levels. A tone you create at bedroom volume may not sound good at gig volume. Two, Anything you hear long enough sounds "right" once you get used to it. I, myself, have been guilty of playing a bad tone for so long that good tone sounded "wrong" by comparison. Three, it ultimately has to fit the context of the band. For example, my tone that worked with one band just sounded muddy with another band. It's because the bass players in the different bands had different sounds and I had to sculpt different tones to work with the different bassists.

From my experience, I think the best way to find the right voice is to record the whole band playing and evaluate the playback a few days after your ears had a chance to recuperate. One of those little pocket-sized digital recorders is perfect. Then figure out if your sound really worked and, if not, how to fix it.

If the recording is muddy/boomy, you probably have to many lows boosts. Take them out. That's what the bassist is for. If you find you have to play at crazy high volume to cut through, you probably need more mids. If it sounds messy, you may have too much gain.

 

[phyrexia]

phrexia, are you in the same room when playing that amp? i know its only the combo but thats gotta be some serious volume.
I was at rudy's in new york the other day jammin through the head / recto 4x12 combo, im pretty sure i wasnt anywhere near those volumes and i was really loud.

haha.

Because of how I use the GEQ I think it looks like it'd be louder than it is. When I turn off the EQ for solos it really rips your head off... but I really am cutting the **** out of a lot of frequencies when the GEQ is on. If I set up the EQ to boost frequencies and cut them, it doesn't need to be that loud, but either something is wrong with my 80hz slider or I just can't meld with how it sounds, so I leave it alone and shape everything else around it.

I won't lie, it is pretty loud. But I only stand five or ten feet from the amp. It is not overbearing. Our bassist uses a 400+ and a powerhouse 4x10, and our drummer is pretty loud. Also, you're moving more air with the 4x12 than I am with the combo and the thiele.

Also, I can tell you from working at a guitar store for three years - when you're loud in the showroom, it's different than loud in a practice room / bar. You've got amps lining the walls, tons of guitars hanging up (i'm assuming Rudy's is like this too), and you're not playing with a bass or drums.

 

[MusicManJP6]

When I turn off the EQ for solos it really rips your head off... but I really am cutting the sh!t out of a lot of frequencies when the GEQ is on.

Oh, I see. You are using the GEQ for a solo boost (when turned off because it boosts your mids back up). That's a good idea. How do you use the solo boost then? For when you need extra volume overall?

 

[MusicManJP6]

I seem to be stuck in the 'V' shape on the GEQ. I use that shape for IIC+ and it sounds great. I'm sure there are other shapes that sound great, but I never venture outside of the 'V. I'm interested in how everyone else uses the GEQ to achieve the tones they are after. I am sure the V limits the tones that can be coaxed out of this amp. I'm sure I just need to experiment, but thought I'd get some insight from the board until I have a chance to play again...

Getting a good tone can be tricky for many reasons. One, the Fletcher/Munson curve makes tone appear to sound different at different volume levels. A tone you create at bedroom volume may not sound good at gig volume. Two, Anything you hear long enough sounds "right" once you get used to it. I, myself, have been guilty of playing a bad tone for so long that good tone sounded "wrong" by comparison. Three, it ultimately has to fit the context of the band. For example, my tone that worked with one band just sounded muddy with another band. It's because the bass players in the different bands had different sounds and I had to sculpt different tones to work with the different bassists.

From my experience, I think the best way to find the right voice is to record the whole band playing and evaluate the playback a few days after your ears had a chance to recuperate. One of those little pocket-sized digital recorders is perfect. Then figure out if your sound really worked and, if not, how to fix it.

If the recording is muddy/boomy, you probably have to many lows boosts. Take them out. That's what the bassist is for. If you find you have to play at crazy high volume to cut through, you probably need more mids. If it sounds messy, you may have too much gain.

You've made some very good points here, sir. I mostly play at home currently. I'm in between bands. So, I'm really just experimenting with the GEQ to see what tones I can get out of it. I'll keep your ideas in mind though when I get cranked back up with another band! Hopefully it will be very soon.

 

[phyrexia]

I go back and forth. Sometimes I will use the solo boost alone, leaving the EQ on. Sometimes I'll just turn off the EQ for a boost. There are a couple times when I want to be the absolute loudest thing in the bar, and so I've had the EQ off and solo boost on (the crescendo in Killing in the Name by RATM, for instance). But this makes for a very loud amp. Woo.

It just depends.