Two different amps at the same price: TC100 vs Mark VII

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bandit2013

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My point here is this, the price of ownership for the Mark VII will cost you the same for the Triple Crown 100W at a street cost of $3,499.00 plus tax. If you are so lucky, you may even get free shipping.

So, which one do you choose? What is your game? Both amps will deliver the goods and are capable of use with extended range guitars like the 7-string if that is in your bag of tricks. However, they are completely different amps.

TC100
Triple Crown 100 or even the 50W will provide a traditional vintage sound reminiscent of the Marshall Silver Jubilee 2555 but more refined and polished. I have a reissue, 2555x in the 100W format. Yep, the three channels are very much like the Silver Jubilee in most respects. So, if you are after some plexi-tones, you can find that mostly with the clean channel. The drive mode is where you get that character. The TC clean channel is where all of the dynamics reside if you are into that play soft it is clean, play hard it bites with an attitude. You can basically dial in the gain to step over the CH2 gain structure. The Triple Crown is very much like its predecessor in respects to the two separate preamp circuits. The Clean channel uses its own set of preamp tubes and the hi/lo gain channels run a different pair to preamp tubes so there is no sharing of the gain stages except for the FX send/return, phase inverter and reverb circuits. The Lo gain or vintage low gain is much like the Silver Jubilee amp but yet different. The three channel voices were carried over from the Royal Atlantic 100W amp. It was not until I bought a Marshall Silver Jubilee where I was able to draw a connection to what the TC sounds like. The main difference is the method used by the 2555 for a clipping circuit (LEDs). The TC (or RA) does not use LEDs for a clipping method. It is all plate driven distortion. Then there is the Hi gain channel. It brings in an additional gain stage to push the amp into some Mark like characteristics. Both Hi and Lo gain circuits have a post gain tone stack where the clean channel retains that pre gain tone stack topography.

The Triple Crown also has one of the most silent switching methods used when changing channels. No pops or funky artifacts of reverb wash that I have yet to notice. The FX loop is line level so your budgetary FX processors that are instrument level may or may not work very well. You will need to have at least a +8dBu capable FX unit. It is not the end of the world though as there is one device that could be used in the FX loop so you can keep using the instrument level stomp boxes you may favor. There is a re-amp interface made by Radial engineering that is intended to make use of instrument level fx units in a line level circuit. EXTC-SA will work for a single amp application. Now I see they have a stereo version of it. I have not tried this since I tossed out most of my instrument level FX units after finding they did not work with the Mark V90. There is one FX pedal I do recommend, the Mesa 5BGEQ but that one seems to be missing from the Mesa lineup. There are others that will work too. Boss EQ-200 is good. Probably more than you need as it is a stereo unit but can be configured to separate the left and right so I can use one on the input and one in the FX loop if that works.

I have never made much use of the multi-soak feature. I have tried it and it works great for attenuation. It was nothing like that of the Royal Atlantic so the multi-soak effect of getting different levels of power tube saturation was not as interesting with the TC100.

Mark VII
The Mark VII, something different than the Triple Crown. It does bring in some vintage tones from three legendary amps of Mesa's past. IIB, IIC+ and IV. The IIB mode is new to me as I never had a IIB amp to compare it too. IIC+, do not have an original to compare it to either. Closest I have on hand is the JP2C loaded with the STR415 tubes. I can say that the STR445 carry some of that weight to drive the amp to match the JP2C in many respects. I was very surprised to hear the similarities with the IIC+ and IV modes were almost indistinguishable from the JP2C CH2 and CH3 pushing power through a quad of the STR415 Sylvania tubes I bought from Mesa Boogie (they are a bit difficult to get). So, in respect to amazing sounds from CH3, I did not find any reason for alarm as all three modes had their unique characteristics and tone that quite rewarding.

One other mode of unfamiliarity was in fact more familiar than I expected it to be. Mark VII mode is very close to the Badlander Crush mode. Come to think of it, the crunch mode is also similar to the BAD crunch mode. Sure, the circuits are completely different and unrelated. The BAD has the basic Rectifier circuit with cold clipper and cathode follower tone stack driver, whereas the Mark VII just repositions the lead drive circuit into a new circuit path before the tone stack sort of lends itself to a similar character of the Badlander. To top if off, the STR445 tubes do have that 6CA7 character to them so there is a hint of that EL34 flavor but not as pronounced as you would find with the BAD if EL34 were your preference.

Then we have the two clean modes. Both are very much the same as what you get with the other Mark amps from the past. What is also great is that you can push the gain to make them less clean. I can almost mimic the driven clean character of the BAD using the clean mode but obviously the BAD will have more teeth in its delivery and distortion range vs the Mark VII pushing the clean into clipping.

I have not noticed any pops or inherited noises when channel changing. It may do this at the start but if it does, I did not take notice. It does have a mute on the reverb circuit so some wash in effect may take place with a moderate reverb setting. I was not paying much attention if this is an issue as I do not change channels much.

Dynamics of the Mark VII are similar to that of the JP2C and the Badlander. The amp is a bit more aggressive on wanting to hold its clip, but I have been able to manage cleaning up the amp with guitar volume roll back. As for the FX loop, I have yet to encounter any issue, but I can say one thing is that the VII signal strength is a bit more than the JP2C when sharing a common stereo FX pedal. The Mark VII has more influence than the JP2C. Not sure where it sits in the signal level range. Sure, any line level compatible FX unit will work just fine with any of the amps I have, including the Mark V90. If I had instrument level effects to try in the FX loop, I would say it is a good fit. Even the JP2C has a higher than instrument level FX send level around -8dBu to -6dBu so your instrument level fx device may be pushed to its limit since they are rated for -20dBu which is lower than what I had measured when I looked into signal levels from three amps (TC, JP2C, MkV90). The -10dBu is still classified as line level if not mistaken.

All of the Blah, blah, blah and no sound clips? Are you kidding me? Sorry, I do not have anything that compared the TC100 to the Mark VII. Even if I did, that does not really help much. Trying one or both out in person is probably the best way to find out which is best for you. Recordings do not capture the feel, response or even the harmonic content along with the air movement, punch or other over/under tones from the guitar cabinet and so on. I have my own opinion which I prefer. I can say this, both are fun amps to enjoy so it boils down to your end goal in mind if you have one. First hand experience: there is a learning curve with both. The TC100 or TC50 can sound harsh with fresh new EL34 tubes so it takes about a week of use for them to mellow out. You may want to dial back on the presence and treble a bit until that happens. Once they mellow out they sound really good. Mark VII can also be very bright too. I have not had mine long enough to see how the power tubes age. Also, this is the first time I have been exposed to the STR445 power tubes. So far I like them.
 

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I’m really enjoying my TC-100’s. I agree that the comparison of ch’s 1&2 to a Silver Jubilee is a good description. Ch-3 just oozes rock solo and lead inspirations.

I had been playing Recto’s for two decades, starting with a 2001 3-Ch Triple, and from 2007-2023 a Roadster. The Triple Crown can keep my heavy tone thirst quenched, as well as inspire me to play more technical, dare I say leaning progressive-style arraignments. It is not a substitute for a Recto, but can cover the territory, as well as vintage and modern rock tones.

My Mark series experience is limited to a MK-III I had when I was young ( and a MKV-90 that I owned for many years. I tried everything to get that MKV to not be harsh, shrill & boxey. I gigged with it often hoping it would one day deliver that liquid tone, it never did and I ended up selling it. That makes me a bit hesitant to go in blind on a MKVII, I really need to play one first and not just in a music store.

And then there is the JP2C, I love the layout and features, but my only experience with the MKIIC is from my MKV, and it wasn’t a ‘wow’ experience either.
 
I can understand the hesitation on the Mark VII. I had that issue myself. I am very happy I decided to get one and have no regrets spending the money on it. The IIC+ mode is full and really close to that of the JP2C loaded with the STR415 power tubes. Mark IV mode is that with more tone density, so it is similar to CH3 on the JP2C. Probably a bit more aggressive than the JP2C.

The Mark VII is not an ice pick, ***** boxy toned amp. It can be if you swap the power tubes with the STR440 but even that sounds way better than the Mark V90.

If Mesa made a 3CH Badlander to have some of the other recto-modes but retain what is on their now, include a midi control with FX loop on/off feature vs always active. that would probably cost about the same as the TC and MKVII. I would buy that. Love the Bad100, reason why I have two (stereo).
 
I’m really enjoying my TC-100’s. I agree that the comparison of ch’s 1&2 to a Silver Jubilee is a good description. Ch-3 just oozes rock solo and lead inspirations.

I had been playing Recto’s for two decades, starting with a 2001 3-Ch Triple, and from 2007-2023 a Roadster. The Triple Crown can keep my heavy tone thirst quenched, as well as inspire me to play more technical, dare I say leaning progressive-style arraignments. It is not a substitute for a Recto, but can cover the territory, as well as vintage and modern rock tones.

My Mark series experience is limited to a MK-III I had when I was young ( and a MKV-90 that I owned for many years. I tried everything to get that MKV to not be harsh, shrill & boxey. I gigged with it often hoping it would one day deliver that liquid tone, it never did and I ended up selling it. That makes me a bit hesitant to go in blind on a MKVII, I really need to play one first and not just in a music store.

And then there is the JP2C, I love the layout and features, but my only experience with the MKIIC is from my MKV, and it wasn’t a ‘wow’ experience either.
Your experience is very close to mine. I have several Marshall style amps, a multiwatt triple rectifier (have owned several other rectos over the years) and now a mark VII. My past experience with marks has been with a V, and then a mark III red stripe that I had Mike B do the ++ mod to. I wanted to love the V so much. It had so much promise and I kept that amp for probably close to two years. However no matter what speakers, guitars, pickups etc I could never make it sound the way I wanted. It was always brighter than it should have been, lacked punch and was boxy. The mark III was fantastic before and after the modification but I owned it at the very beginning of Covid and as a result of working with Covid patients I shut down my studio for a period of time and couldn't justify keeping it. The Mark VII to me is what the V should have been. It is not boxy, has punch, it is bright but can be controlled much easier and I have found good use for each of the modes so far. I would honestly recommend the VII over the V. It is a fantastic amp. Also in regards to dialing in tone the second channel crunch can get extremely close to a jcm 800 tone. Close enough to really use it instead of some of my other Marshall's. My only complaint with the VII is that it does not have a resonance control and that's just a personal thing. I suspect the NFB circuit is probably not a traditional one where a depth control could be set up but who knows
 
After messing around with the gremlin amp for a while these past few days, I would pay the extra coin for the TC100 and ditch the Mark V90. The triple crown is a decent amp, it has been a while since I had one out. Today I pulled out the first one in reach, it was the TC50. Had some fun for a change instead of dread. I am sort of holding back on the JP2C and Mark VII, or Badlander at the moment. Waiting for a Mesa 4x10 open back cab to arrive today. I hope today but if not, it will be here by tomorrow.
 
I'm fortunate enough to own both amps. My current setup is two-sided. On the left is the Mark VII head with a Mark V:90 combo and the Head-Track, sharing the combo speaker and a Mesa 1x12 ported C90 cab, with my time-based effects on that side. On the right is the TC-100 head and a Fillmore 50 head and Head-Track, sharing a couple of Mesa closed-back ported 1x12s, a C90 and a V30, though I'm going to try 2 C90s. I'll use any of the amps individually or in combination, using a radial JX-2 ABY switcher. I use the Mark V:90 for Fat, Mark I, and Mark IV, while the Mark VII is generally set to Crunch, Mark VII, and Mark IIb, but any of the modes on that beast are absolutely great in any of those channels. I usually end up running both sides simultaneously, usually Mark VII (or Crunch or Mark IIc+ or Mark IV or Mark I( with TC-100 channel 3 (or Fillmore High), or Mark IIb or Crunch with TC-100 channel 2, or the cleans together, with the occasional touch of chorus on the left. It sounds huge. The TC-100 is, to my ears, the best Marshall ever, and the Marks are always amazing, and I've been using those going back to my very first Boogie (still have it) that I bought in 1975, when it involved calling, placing the order, sending a check, and waiting about six weeks. That amp changed my life!
 
I recently looked at the prices on the Mesa website. Now there seems to be a difference between them. I would assume it may have been during the transition of new transformers or whatever the issue was that resulted in the TC100 having the same cost as the Mark VII. Now the TC100 is $500 less.
 
Also in regards to dialing in tone the second channel crunch can get extremely close to a jcm 800 tone. Close enough to really use it instead of some of my other Marshall's
Super curious about this; how are you setting up channel 2 and the graphic EQ to achieve this?
 
Super curious about this; how are you setting up channel 2 and the graphic EQ to achieve this?
I have compared this to a plexi that I have. It’s pretty close in the room through the same cab. There is still some difference for sure but it is very minimal and I believe would be lost in the mix of a live performance. I’m sure this will vary with pickups and speakers.
 

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I'm fortunate enough to own both amps. My current setup is two-sided. On the left is the Mark VII head with a Mark V:90 combo and the Head-Track, sharing the combo speaker and a Mesa 1x12 ported C90 cab, with my time-based effects on that side. On the right is the TC-100 head and a Fillmore 50 head and Head-Track, sharing a couple of Mesa closed-back ported 1x12s, a C90 and a V30, though I'm going to try 2 C90s. I'll use any of the amps individually or in combination, using a radial JX-2 ABY switcher. I use the Mark V:90 for Fat, Mark I, and Mark IV, while the Mark VII is generally set to Crunch, Mark VII, and Mark IIb, but any of the modes on that beast are absolutely great in any of those channels. I usually end up running both sides simultaneously, usually Mark VII (or Crunch or Mark IIc+ or Mark IV or Mark I( with TC-100 channel 3 (or Fillmore High), or Mark IIb or Crunch with TC-100 channel 2, or the cleans together, with the occasional touch of chorus on the left. It sounds huge. The TC-100 is, to my ears, the best Marshall ever, and the Marks are always amazing, and I've been using those going back to my very first Boogie (still have it) that I bought in 1975, when it involved calling, placing the order, sending a check, and waiting about six weeks. That amp changed my life!

How does the Mark V and VII #2 Crunch modes compare? Are they close enough or drastically different with same settings?
 
Looked at Mesa's website today, Seems the price dropped. TC100 is now about $600 less. Must have been when they had issues sourcing transformers for the TC that hiked the prices up. Been a while since I ran either of the Triple Crowns. Sometimes it is good to store it away and then come back to it later. May seem like a NAD thing. I have too many amps and not enough room to keep them all in one room.
 
How does the Mark V and VII #2 Crunch modes compare? Are they close enough or drastically different with same settings?
They are similar on crunch but slightly different as I believe the presence effect on the Mark VII is a tad bit brighter. I did have the settings dialed in the same but doubt that means anything as the amps do not have the same topographies in their designs. The Mark V CH2 gain stages are different, say for the V2A triode circuit which is the second gain stage following V1A. Since it was used to derive the Mark I voice, all of the gain stages in that circuit share the same values for the plate and cathode resistors. 100k plate, and 1.5k cathode. Tone stack follows the V2A gain stage. When one looks at the design of the Mark VII, it is similar to the Badlander crunch as both amps make use of the lead drive circuit, the distortion stage with the boosting stage bypassed. Again, the tone stack follows the gain stages. Mesa did a decent job at retaining that crunch characteristic quite well. Almost similar to the Hi gain channel of the Triple Crown when you throw in a Mesa 5BGEQ pedal in the FX loop of the TC100.

Here is a video I did to compare the two: Mark V90 (2012) to the Mark VII (2023). Just a heads up, I swapped all of the preamp tubes in the Mark V90 to compensate for issues I had with the amp in general. It has gremlins. Issues with CH1 60hz hum, ice pick on tweed, edge and all of channel 3. I prepped the preamp with a combination of different preamp tubes fixed most of that but sort of had a slight blanket effect on the amp. Also first time I ever used the STR441 power tubes in the amp. When I did this, I tried to match the two amps to each other. It is more noodling than trying to show off as I lack that talent most of you have. If you want to hear the clean to edge, there is another video for that. This video covers crunch, Mark I, IIC+, IV and Extreme to the Mark VII crunch, IIB, IIC+, IV and VII modes. Both amps were driving their own Vertical 212 cabs. May not have had the microphones positioned in the exact same location. SM57 into a focusrite Scarlette Dynamic Octo pre. Then into a Zoom hand held recorder to obtain the correct line out signal to feed direct into the video camera. It is close to the room sound I could get. Also hate making videos so that is another factor. To add to my frustrations, the Mark V90 footswitch was acting up, the EQ on/off was not working. Trust me, there are much better videos comparing the two amps.
The second video has more of the crunch mode at the end. It had to be split into two videos to upload to youtube.



Here is the clean to edge comparison of the Mark V to the Mark VII in an attempt to match them. More crunch at the end.

 
They are similar on crunch but slightly different as I believe the presence effect on the Mark VII is a tad bit brighter. I did have the settings dialed in the same but doubt that means anything as the amps do not have the same topographies in their designs. The Mark V CH2 gain stages are different, say for the V2A triode circuit which is the second gain stage following V1A. Since it was used to derive the Mark I voice, all of the gain stages in that circuit share the same values for the plate and cathode resistors. 100k plate, and 1.5k cathode. Tone stack follows the V2A gain stage. When one looks at the design of the Mark VII, it is similar to the Badlander crunch as both amps make use of the lead drive circuit, the distortion stage with the boosting stage bypassed. Again, the tone stack follows the gain stages. Mesa did a decent job at retaining that crunch characteristic quite well. Almost similar to the Hi gain channel of the Triple Crown when you throw in a Mesa 5BGEQ pedal in the FX loop of the TC100.

Here is a video I did to compare the two: Mark V90 (2012) to the Mark VII (2023). Just a heads up, I swapped all of the preamp tubes in the Mark V90 to compensate for issues I had with the amp in general. It has gremlins. Issues with CH1 60hz hum, ice pick on tweed, edge and all of channel 3. I prepped the preamp with a combination of different preamp tubes fixed most of that but sort of had a slight blanket effect on the amp. Also first time I ever used the STR441 power tubes in the amp. When I did this, I tried to match the two amps to each other. It is more noodling than trying to show off as I lack that talent most of you have. If you want to hear the clean to edge, there is another video for that. This video covers crunch, Mark I, IIC+, IV and Extreme to the Mark VII crunch, IIB, IIC+, IV and VII modes. Both amps were driving their own Vertical 212 cabs. May not have had the microphones positioned in the exact same location. SM57 into a focusrite Scarlette Dynamic Octo pre. Then into a Zoom hand held recorder to obtain the correct line out signal to feed direct into the video camera. It is close to the room sound I could get. Also hate making videos so that is another factor. To add to my frustrations, the Mark V90 footswitch was acting up, the EQ on/off was not working. Trust me, there are much better videos comparing the two amps.
The second video has more of the crunch mode at the end. It had to be split into two videos to upload to youtube.



Here is the clean to edge comparison of the Mark V to the Mark VII in an attempt to match them. More crunch at the end.



Thanks 🫡

Just curious about the difference as I compared JMP 2203 and Mk V #2 with crunch or edge and never got enough high end from Mark V 🤣 high end meaning harmonics in this context.

maybe I should visit the tubes in Mk V and swap most of them with new ones.. the #1 and #3 have “natural” amount of highs but the #2 feels a bit filtered compared to the real thing or other two channels
 
Try using a Tung Sol 12AX7 in V2 position. I am not quite sure what the "Crunch" voice is supposed to sound like to be honest. The Mesa branded JJECC83s tube is a bit darker toned with a bit of softer bottom end response. V2 is only used on Ch2 so it will not influence the other channels. Also, you may need to alter the GEQ. Instead of using the sliders for CH2, use the preset control instead. That is another feature I sort of like on the Mark V90. As for the filtered effect, CH2 was mostly geared to get the Mark I sound, as I see it.

I much preferred using crunch most of the time, but with the Gold Lion KT77 (EL34 bias) instead of the 6L6GC tubes. At least the Mark V90 will take on a different character with the EL34 tubes. I tried the STR447 EL34 tube in one of the Mark VII and compared to the other with the STR445 6L6. They sounded much the same. That was unexpected. Based on the description of the STR445, it does have a JJ 6CA7 sound to it, not quite as expressive but very similar. I had tried the JJ 6CA7, those were sic sounding in a good way. Had an issue with one of the tubes so I decided to try the KT77 tubes instead.
 
Try using a Tung Sol 12AX7 in V2 position. I am not quite sure what the "Crunch" voice is supposed to sound like to be honest. The Mesa branded JJECC83s tube is a bit darker toned with a bit of softer bottom end response. V2 is only used on Ch2 so it will not influence the other channels. Also, you may need to alter the GEQ. Instead of using the sliders for CH2, use the preset control instead. That is another feature I sort of like on the Mark V90. As for the filtered effect, CH2 was mostly geared to get the Mark I sound, as I see it.

I much preferred using crunch most of the time, but with the Gold Lion KT77 (EL34 bias) instead of the 6L6GC tubes. At least the Mark V90 will take on a different character with the EL34 tubes. I tried the STR447 EL34 tube in one of the Mark VII and compared to the other with the STR445 6L6. They sounded much the same. That was unexpected. Based on the description of the STR445, it does have a JJ 6CA7 sound to it, not quite as expressive but very similar. I had tried the JJ 6CA7, those were sic sounding in a good way. Had an issue with one of the tubes so I decided to try the KT77 tubes instead.
The GEQ in my usage is tweaked to get most out of #3 but yes - I have tinkered with preset eq to #2 some days it’s great and some days it is not 🤣

I had some Mesa EL34 in there for a while but went back to 6L6.

The observation about the crunch/edge not having as much highs (harmonics) as the JMP just left me a bit baffled - the Mk V has an internet lore of being bright but it is not 🤣
 
You can have mine as that one will be super bright with the stock tubes in it. You will need ear plugs as that ice pick will hurt if you are not prepared for it.

Probably why I love the JP2C so much. It was a good departure from the clutches of ice the particular version of the Mark V90 I have suffered with.
 
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