Two 1x12's or one 2x12?

[Paw]

For practicality I can only see advantages going with two 1x12's. Soundwise, how do they differ from a 2x12? I'm probably going with a two EVM12L setup in either case, thieles if I'm going with two 1x12's. I may want to try out the 3/4 open back option with one of them. So, is there any good reason to go with the 2x12? What setup do you prefer?

 

[JOEY B.]

With the pair of 1x12 thieles, you have the option of only using one of them, as conditions change. My Genz-Benz 2x12 G-flex has a jackplate that will allow series or parallel 2x12, as well as a left or right 1x12 operation. I have heard the G-flex loaded with EVM-12L Classics, and it works very well.

 

[Paw]

So you prefer one 2x12 over two 1x12's? How does the sound differ between series and parallel wiring? Cool that you can use your 2x12 like a 1x12

 

[screamingdaisy]

The EVM-12L was designed for use in a ported enclosure. "Thiele" cabs are designed around EV's specs for that specific speaker.

Me personally, I'm waiting for an open back 1x12 and Thiele 1x12 to arrive... I plan on stacking them for a mini-stack with a Mark V. My theory is that the thiele will provide depth and thump while the open back will distribute sound better.

 

[Heritage Softail]

I had gotten many good speaker ideas on here. The one I ended up with, after working on the 2 of the 1x12 or one of the 2x12 was to get a Matchless Celestion G12H30 and Celestion 12M Greenback. It is an open back cab. I had heard of those two speakers combined on here, I think. Anyway, they work well together. Does rock/alt/blues/metal... not a death metal drop tuned type box.

 

[JOEY B.]

So you prefer one 2x12 over two 1x12's? How does the sound differ between series and parallel wiring? Cool that you can use your 2x12 like a 1x12

I would not say that I prefer one over another, The only issue with using just one thiele is the sound projection is hitting you in the knees. Stacking two of them, or placing the single thiele at a distance of at least 12 feet from you will help with sound dispersion. The Genz-Benz is an oversized (tall) horizontal 2x12 with very good projection for its design. I use my 1x12 thieles with my short chassis Mark II heads, and the 2x12 Genz-Benz (loaded with MESA MS-12 speakers) with my Electra-Dyne head. 8)

 

[GD_NC]

I tried using 2 Mesa closed back 1x12 cabs and didn't care for it. Most 2x12's sound better IMO. I think it must be the small slize of the cabs.

I agree with the comment above - An thiele (EVM) + an open back 1x12 (C-90) is tough to beat. Very versitle setup that sound good for most anyting. I did a lot of experimenting with cabs/speakers and landed on this.

 

[JOEY B.]

I tried using 2 Mesa closed back 1x12 cabs and didn't care for it. Most 2x12's sound better IMO. I think it must be the small slize of the cabs.

Out of curiosity, were these a pair of 1x12 EVM-12L loaded 1x12's? I have not heard many 2x12's that can get that much bass response. The Genz-Benz, Earcandy Buzzbomb or Port City OS 2x12 may be the best 2x12 cab for a pair of EV's. Their closed back, tuned port design is more akin to the thiele than most other 2x12's. Boogafunk will build you a custom 2x12 EV spec thiele, if you so desire. :twisted:

 

[GD_NC]

I tried using 2 Mesa closed back 1x12 cabs and didn't care for it. Most 2x12's sound better IMO. I think it must be the small slize of the cabs.

Out of curiosity, were these a pair of 1x12 EVM-12L loaded 1x12's? I have not heard many 2x12's that can get that much bass response. The Genz-Benz, Earcandy Buzzbomb or Port City OS 2x12 may be the best 2x12 cab for a pair of EV's. Their closed back, tuned port design is more akin to the thiele than most other 2x12's. Boogafunk will build you a custom 2x12 EV spec thiele, if you so desire. :twisted:

The were a pair or 80's vintage Mesa closed-back Compact 1x12s loaded with C-90s. They were NOT ported cabs. Which was the problem. I agree a Port City or Z-best ported 2x12 is a great way to go too. Speakers & Cabs are a subjective buisiness.

 

[JOEY B.]

Speakers & Cabs are a subjective buisiness.

Yes they are. The compact 1x12(non ported) with the C-90 could very well sound small as compared to most 2x12's. It would have to do with the resonance area behind the cones. The 1x12 ported thiele, when loaded with the EVM-12L is a completely different animal. There are fans of the EVM-12L, and there are haters, and I understand why. It's all in what you are used to hearing. FWIW, the EVM-12L has to be tuned with the ears, with no attention to the "usual" settings provided by the Celestion V30 crowd. :wink:

 

[YellowJacket]

Cabinet design has a huge impact on tone. FWIW, I have a theile 2 x 12 I made which is basically 2 1 x 12 chambers in the same box. I also have a theile 2 x 12 (Built with my father in Law for my brother) that has only one chamber for the two speakers. It really doesn't make a significant difference with each of the design parameters. Consider that the Road King 2 x 12 is a two chamber cab as well, with a close back side (v30) and a tuned side with a rear port (c90). The thing sounds great and is pretty huge, just like a standard 2 x 12.

Just consider carefully what you want for tone . . . I personally find that close back cabs have this kick you in the teeth thump while theiles sound restrained in some way. To quote my friend, the thiele cabs sound perfect but there is just a certain something missing from the tone. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my theile but consider your needs before buying. As for 2 x 12 or two 1 x 12s, I'd suggest getting 2 excellent 1 x 12s for versatility. This is, of course, coming from the guy who got rid of his 4 x 12 for 2 2 x 12s because he wanted more versatility. Best of luck!

 

[58boogie]

The 3/4 back cabinet is great. It sounds huge with good low end and does not "beam" like a lot of closed back cabinets. I would go with two 1x12 ,3/4 back cabinets. Nice slightly larger size and lighter weight. They look cool stacked together like a mini-stack, and it is nice to have the second cabinet up higher so you can hear it. In other situations you can split them on either side for more indirect room coverage.

 

[Paw]

Thanks guys for great info and for sharing your personal opinions. Looks like there is no real "winner" or favorite here. I think I'm leaning against two 1x12's. Easier to haul around, plus I can take only one with me if I want to be extra lazy.

If I stick with this plan, I'm definitely going with one EV loaded thiele. Do you have any suggestions for a good 1x12 that would compliment the thiele. I'm thinking open back and a different speaker..?

 

[gonzo]

i worked out a similar question/answer scenario years ago, when i toured full time.

i ended up with (2) 1x12's (i now have 3 1x12's, more on that shortly)


with a pair of 1x12's, you'll not get the oomph and bottom you CAN get out of a 2x12, but honestly, the mic, on a live stage, hardly hears the difference.
it hears the close proximity of a single 12" speaker.

(RECORDING, IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TOPIC)

anyways.....

i had the option of being able to rotate the cabinets in a multitude of arrangments...

• *both on the floor, facing outward, at max volume;
  
  *both stacked, facing outward, for having stage volume, and also being able to monitor myself better;
  one forward, and one backward, with a mic on it, for a somewhat controlled micing situation that mitigated some stage volume;
  
  *one backwards, with a mic on it, and the other cross-stage, for the fellow musicians to hear me better;
  
  *both backwards, in shallow stages, where i can monitor myself off the wall behind me, and play loud as *****, without it killing people at the edge of the stage;
  
  *one backwards, with a mic on it, and the other in front of me, angled up, like a monitor, for very low-volume playing (this worked like a charm, the rest of the band could hear me, the soundman had complete control of my mix FOH).

now with (3) 1x12's, i have a live rig, that allows me to do a dry/wet setup.
the center cab, comes straight off the boogie, dry, and unaffected.
the fx loop out, goes to a secondary stereo amp (set up for clean) and the preamp and effects sound of the boogie, goes out left and right to the two other 1x12's, for a pure stereo fx setup. i can run the FX full time/all time, or i can run the send from the fx loop thru a volume pedal, and blend the fx sounds in and out at will, in stereo, tho this is a bit trickier without a mixer in the line to blend the amount of fx, it still works really well, if the fx are not to 'wet'.

 

[Paw]

Wow! That's a lot of options you have right there! So what kind of 1x12's do you use (cab design, speakers), and what kind of sounds are you aiming at getting from the different cabs? For example do you use one cab to enhance your cleans and one cab for balls to the walls rhythm?

i worked out a similar question/answer scenario years ago, when i toured full time.

i ended up with (2) 1x12's (i now have 3 1x12's, more on that shortly)


with a pair of 1x12's, you'll not get the oomph and bottom you CAN get out of a 2x12, but honestly, the mic, on a live stage, hardly hears the difference.
it hears the close proximity of a single 12" speaker.

(RECORDING, IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TOPIC)

anyways.....

i had the option of being able to rotate the cabinets in a multitude of arrangments...

• *both on the floor, facing outward, at max volume;
  
  *both stacked, facing outward, for having stage volume, and also being able to monitor myself better;
  one forward, and one backward, with a mic on it, for a somewhat controlled micing situation that mitigated some stage volume;
  
  *one backwards, with a mic on it, and the other cross-stage, for the fellow musicians to hear me better;
  
  *both backwards, in shallow stages, where i can monitor myself off the wall behind me, and play loud as *****, without it killing people at the edge of the stage;
  
  *one backwards, with a mic on it, and the other in front of me, angled up, like a monitor, for very low-volume playing (this worked like a charm, the rest of the band could hear me, the soundman had complete control of my mix FOH).

now with (3) 1x12's, i have a live rig, that allows me to do a dry/wet setup.
the center cab, comes straight off the boogie, dry, and unaffected.
the fx loop out, goes to a secondary stereo amp (set up for clean) and the preamp and effects sound of the boogie, goes out left and right to the two other 1x12's, for a pure stereo fx setup. i can run the FX full time/all time, or i can run the send from the fx loop thru a volume pedal, and blend the fx sounds in and out at will, in stereo, tho this is a bit trickier without a mixer in the line to blend the amount of fx, it still works really well, if the fx are not to 'wet'.

 

[gonzo]

Paw-

i have (2) roland 1x12 closed backs, which are similar build to the standard Avatar 1x12 closed backs.
they are pine, nice dovetailed corners, solid baffle, and they both have old english 25 watt Greenbacks in them.

the AVATAR cab, is new, it's a vintage model, that is more like a bogner or marshall build, closed back, and it has a Celestion Heritage G12-H 55 in it.

it is my 'dry' speaker, the 2 greenbacks, would be my 'wet' speakers for left/right stereo. i don't use them as hard as the center dry speaker, so i don't need a lot of wattage capability.
run in stereo, it is not a very loud system, but sounds wonderful on stage.
miced, who cares?
the PA isn't stereo...
no one in the audience is going to hear the stereo effect.

i do that, just for myself.

if i want to run LOUD, i just connect all (3) together, the 2 greenbacks i have wired to go together in parallel, the avatar is straight thru series.

the greenbacks, and the Heritage G12, really do sound different from each other.
the avatar has a deeper tone in the cab, plus the speaker in it is voice at 55hz.


when i'm recording, i use the avatar.
i just like the sound of the speaker in it better, if i were to move it to one of the roland cabs, i don't know, i'd probably use the avatar anyway, because it has more volume inside the cab, so i get more thump.

in my little studio:

 

[Paw]

Thanks for detailed reply and cool pictures Gonzo 8) Looks nice! I'm not out to buy a cab (or two) yet, so I guess I'll just think about what will suit me the best and try out some stuff if possible.

Thanks for sharing your opinions and experiences with me guys