Trying To Fix my SOUND!! need help with my tubes

[Franko]

hi ..
i got a bunch of tubes
i don't really know where to put them... i have my tube chart which is the same as the roadking... i wanna sound clean with a hendrix crunch and a ramstein metal sound..

i don't really know what the gains on the tubes are meant for... does it matter where to put them... can anyone tell me what gain should go with what v-slot
v1=??
v2=??
etc.

also i use a boss gt-8 so i use my effect loop.. idk jus thought id throw that in there... i use that 4 wire method..

here are the tubes i got..
i got the stock tubes from mesa chinese 1 12ax7

i have 2 jj's ecc83s 120/120
jj ecc83s 110/115
jj ecc83s 110/105
jj ecc83s 115/105
jj ecc82 75/75

i got one that doesn't say anything but 105/110

tung sol 12ax7 95/95

eh 12ax7eh 95/95
eh 12ax7eh 105/105

groove tube gt12ax7r

any advice will be greatly appriciated... thanks...

-franko

 

[MrMarkIII]

The ecc82 has a gain factor of 19. All the others (ecc83 is equivalent to the 12AX7) have a gain factor of 100.
So, the ecc82 (also known as a 12AU7) has about 80% less gain than a 12AX7, the most common pre-amp tube. If you were accustomed to running a gain control on 2, you will need to turn it up to 10 to get roughly the same level of distortion.
The two numbers separated by a slash, i.e., "115/105", refer to a rating of both sides of each tube. The little buggers are actually two itty-bitty amplifiers in one piece of glass. Someone else can surely weigh in on exactly what the numbers mean, but basically, the higher the number, the better. And, the closer the two numbers are to each other, the better the two sides of the tube are matched.
The best advice I can give is to, first, get a piece of paper and pencil, then try one of your new tubes out in V1. Find out which one sounds the best to you in that position. Then move on to V2, V3, etc. It's fun! It's educational!
Avoid using the GT12AX7R in the V6 position, or whatever the Phase Inverter position is.
The "R" stands for "Russian", and there are some Mesa amps which don't like Russian tubes for the Phase Inverter, and the tube goes kaput.
My two centavos.

 

[stokes]

The ECC82,as was already pointed out is a 12AU7,which wont sound good anywhwere in the amp.Its gain factor is too low for a high gain amp.The rest of them are all 12AX7's.Where they will sound best is totally up to you,you will have to experiment trying them in different positions.You most likely wont see any difference in the JJ's,regardless of the numbers i.e. 110/105,these numbers are the results in a particular tube tester.Depending on what tester was used they are either the mutual conductance or some factor thereof,or just a random number a tester uses in an emmissions test,which is really only good/bad.The only real test worthwhile in a guitar amp is to use it in the amp and let your ears decide.The EH's and the Tung-sol and GT may sound different than the JJ's,but possibly not.They are made in Russia and possibly on the same machines.I'm not sure what JJ is using these days,but in any case,to me,they all (current production tubes) sound like sh$t.But try them in different positions and see what you like.They are all okay in any of the preamp,nine pin tube sockets.

 

[Franko]

awesome i checked them out and i tried a few out.. i put the tungsol in v1 jj's on v2/3/4... and the eh's on v5/6..
everything sounds good..

what is the appropriate gain for a reverb and phase inverter and fx loop...

been reading up on all this stuff but it explains how there made and what there for... but not about how it would sound in my roadster... but i swapped them around...

i guess one of my tubes were bad and i also have a set of e34l's that i wanted to put in there but one of them wasnt lighting up... bummer.. i jus reorder two more and am returning the bad one... am i gunna get a crazy different sound.. should i change out my rectifier tubes too...

when i got my amp the cord in the back that connects the speakers in the combo was in the 4ohm slot... is that CORRECT!!! its an 8ohm load...

diode mode / recto tracking ?? whats better ... guessing one is solid state the other tube

anyway thanks for all the help and i do apologize if i asked too many questions in one thread...

-franko

 

[stokes]

Appropriate gain for the reverb,PI and effects loop?Dont know what you mean by "appropriate gain",but if it calls for a 12AX7 use a 12AX7,if it calls for a 12AT7..... Sometimes the lower gain 12AT7 will sound better in the PI position,but that is a personal choice.Rectifiers have very little effect on the tone of the amp.It would take some very discerning ears to hear the difference.Should you change the rectifier?IMO only if it isnt working,rectifiers generally work until they dont,so if it aint broke...... Diode mode/recto tracking,whats better?Whichever sounds better to you.The "correct" connection for the speaker is to connect an 8 ohm speaker to the 8 ohm jack,but it will work in the 4 ohm jack too,it will sound a little softer or darker,but you may not even notice a huge difference.Using an 8 ohm speaker in the 4 ohm jack changes the reflected impedance your tubes see,making them work a bit "cooler",not really a bad thing.

 

[Franko]

AWEsome i think im gettting it... i have some tubes that have low numbers like 95/95 and ones that have 110/115 or even 120/120... thats what i meant about gain... but i put all 12ax7s in my amp and it sounds good... i get a weird noise after i switch from distortion to clean but i think thats my reverb... ill jus keep trying different tubes... thanks for all the help... now all i gotta do is figure out my boss gt8 to work with my mesa...

-franko

 

[stokes]

AWEsome i think im gettting it... i have some tubes that have low numbers like 95/95 and ones that have 110/115 or even 120/120... thats what i meant about gain... but i put all 12ax7s in my amp and it sounds good... i get a weird noise after i switch from distortion to clean but i think thats my reverb... ill jus keep trying different tubes... thanks for all the help... now all i gotta do is figure out my boss gt8 to work with my mesa...

-franko

Okay,the numbers,95/95 110/115 etc can be decieving.You can assume the lower numbers are "weaker" or older tubes,but that isnt an absolute.Tube tester results are not always 100% spot on.As long as the results read higher than what the particular tester deems as "minimum" the tubes should be good,but your ears are the only true test.I've had many tubes test "low" on my gm tester and work and sound just fine,so dont read too much into these numbers.The tubes that show the same numbers,like 95/95 for each triode can be considered "matching" or "balanced"to some degree,but I'd like to see the current draw of each to consider them a match.Some people like to see a balanced 12AX7 in the PI position,but I dont feel that it matters much in a guitar amp.Hi-Fi amps have much tighter tolerances and a balanced PI may be beneficial,but guitar amps components are +/- 10% at best,so when you put a balanced tube in the PI the rest of the circuit is out of balance by 10%,you would be better off putting an out of balance pair of triodes in and hoping it matches your circuit.

 

[Franko]

blew a tube ... the reverb one... idk why...

 

[thunda1216]

blew a tube ... the reverb one... idk why...

tubes wear out! you have to replace them every now and then...

"yours is not to reason why but to play and fry..."

 

[elvis]

Actually, the rectifier can have a BIG effect on tone, most notably on attack at high volume. The amp gets its power thru the rectifier tube. The current passes thru the power transformer, then the rectifier, to the supply bypass capacitors. The capacitors store energy that is available for the amp to use, and it is constantly replenished by the current thru the rectifier. If you hit the amp hard and it uses a lot of instantaneous current, the energy in the capacitors can be depleted, and the supply voltage can drop until the recifier current has time to replenish it.

The time is determined by the series resistance of the rectifier. Tube rectifiers have somewhere between a little and a lot of series resistance, depending on the model of tube. Silicon rectifier diodes have very little series resistance.

If you hit the amp hard, the supply will sag least with diodes, most with a tube rectifier. This sag kills off a little bit of the transient punch when you hit the strings, and some people like it and some people don't. That's why Mesa gives you a choice.

 

[Franko]

well i changed everything out... tweaked my eq on my gt8 and damn its sounds great now... idk what else to say... its awesome... when i switch channels you can here like a lil noise like distortion when i hit the clean channel... and OHHH... my amp switch sometimes works and sometime doesnt... i clean out the clean channel switch which is mainly the problem but it always ends up messing up... i ordered two new ones from mesa and everytime i try to change them the dam thing start working... idk.. probly too much dust... well again thanks for all the help...

-franko 8)

 

[stokes]

Actually, the rectifier can have a BIG effect on tone, most notably on attack at high volume. The amp gets its power thru the rectifier tube. The current passes thru the power transformer, then the rectifier, to the supply bypass capacitors. The capacitors store energy that is available for the amp to use, and it is constantly replenished by the current thru the rectifier. If you hit the amp hard and it uses a lot of instantaneous current, the energy in the capacitors can be depleted, and the supply voltage can drop until the recifier current has time to replenish it.

The time is determined by the series resistance of the rectifier. Tube rectifiers have somewhere between a little and a lot of series resistance, depending on the model of tube. Silicon rectifier diodes have very little series resistance.

If you hit the amp hard, the supply will sag least with diodes, most with a tube rectifier. This sag kills off a little bit of the transient punch when you hit the strings, and some people like it and some people don't. That's why Mesa gives you a choice.

Attack,or sag is not tone,at least not to me.Tone is defined by components in the signal chain,the power supply,which affects sag or attack is not in the signal chain.

 

[Franko]

i been reading up alot on the signal chain... there's so many ways to set it up... lil confusing...

things are sounding great thou... probably gunna get me some new rec tubes... any ideas..

-franko