Triple Rec re-tube

[jm1681]

Bunch of questions...

First, do I need a re-tube? My amp is roughly 4-5 years old and has never been opened up. Pretty decent usage throughout its life, no failures, but the tone doesn't seem to be cutting it lately.

Second, the cabinet I'm running (A recto 4x12) is even older than the amp and is still on original speakers. Could that be a part of the problem as well? If so, any recomendations on new speakers? I've been thinkng Celestion GT12-75s.

Third, if I do need a re-tube, what kind of tubes does everyone recomend? I was simply going to put Mesa tubes in, but if there are any other brands that sound better or different (and how), I'd be curious to know about them.

Fourth, I can't afford to re-tube the whole amp at the moment. Would I be better off waiting to do the whole thing all at once, or is it safe to do in sections? In other words, can I re-tube the preamp now, and the poweramp later?

Not sure what information to supply so if there is anything you need to know to answer any of those questions, ask away

 

[tele_jas]

If it's 3-4 yrs old and never been re-tubed and been played pretty regularly on a weekly basis it is probably time for a re-tube.

You probably don't need to worry about the preamp tubes or the rectifier tubes right now, just the 6 power tubes. Preamp tubes will last for a long time (I have an amp that is 36 years old and still has at least one of the original preamp tubes)...... but they can get microphonic on you at any time - even new ones, but you can check that easily by tapping on the tube with a pencil (eraser end) and seeing if they sound "too metallic".

Which poweramp tubes?? You'll get lots of suggestions, but if you want reliable and a good price stick with the Mesa/Boogie tubes. They have 2 different 6L6's and one is a bit more $$ than the other (because it's a bit of a better tube) but both are decent tubes. If you want a non-mesa tube you can try JJ's? go to www.eurotubes.com (I think that's the site) and check out their tubes and they usually have good prices on package to retube your amp. Bob over there is real good at answering any questions via email. Heck..... you could even try EL34's now that it's time for a retube, but if you like what you have now then stick with 6L6's - plus EL34's are more expensive. For 6L6's you're looking at around $100-$115 at a music store for all 6 tubes (EL34's will be about $135-$160).

I might not be a bad idea to get rectifier tubes sometime in the future and a spare 12ax7 or two to have on hand - and maybe a spare fuse too. It sucks when a tube goes out Saturday evening and no music stores are open until Monday.


You'll be really surprised when you put new tubes in, you don't notice the degrading tone, especially over 4 years.... but when you put in the new tubes it'll sound like a completely new amp. Low's will be lower, highs will be higher and the sustain will be better too.

 

[trendkill1168]

Bunch of questions...

First, do I need a re-tube? My amp is roughly 4-5 years old and has never been opened up. Pretty decent usage throughout its life, no failures, but the tone doesn't seem to be cutting it lately.

Sounds like you definately need a retube.

Second, the cabinet I'm running (A recto 4x12) is even older than the amp and is still on original speakers. Could that be a part of the problem as well? If so, any recomendations on new speakers? I've been thinkng Celestion GT12-75s.

Speakers should be fine and are most likely vintage 30's. I'd retube first before you do anything with the cab.

Third, if I do need a re-tube, what kind of tubes does everyone recomend? I was simply going to put Mesa tubes in, but if there are any other brands that sound better or different (and how), I'd be curious to know about them.

Alot of people are running JJ power and preamp tubes. For preamp I would say the JJ ECC83S, Tung-Sol 12AX7 reissue, or Chinese (Shuguang) C9's are all good. Or you can just buy the stock Mesa preamp tubes. I think they are relabeled Chinese. For power tubes I would say JJ 6L6 GC's, Svetlana Winged C 6L6 GC's, TAD 6L6 GC-STR's, or Groove Tube 6L6 GE's. There again you can go with the stock Mesa power tubes.

Fourth, I can't afford to re-tube the whole amp at the moment. Would I be better off waiting to do the whole thing all at once, or is it safe to do in sections? In other words, can I re-tube the preamp now, and the poweramp later?

I would replace the power tubes first because they go bad alot faster than preamp or rectifier tubes. Then replace all your preamp tubes and lastly the rectifier.

Not sure what information to supply so if there is anything you need to know to answer any of those questions, ask away

It depends on what type of music you play and what kind of tones your after. Check out www.eurotubes.com, www.thetubestore.com, or www.dougstubes.com. Any of those sites will get you going in the right direction and you can email them with specific questions and they will recommend the right tubes for you that will get you the sound your looking for. Hope that helps, good luck!

 

[jm1681]

Thanx for the responses guys

...You probably don't need to worry about the preamp tubes or the rectifier tubes right now, just the 6 power tubes...

I've been running the amp in Silicon Diode mode, does this completely bypass the rectifier tubes?

...Preamp tubes will last for a long time (I have an amp that is 36 years old and still has at least one of the original preamp tubes)...

Really :shock: I thought they would be the first things to go?

...You'll be really surprised when you put new tubes in, you don't notice the degrading tone, especially over 4 years.... but when you put in the new tubes it'll sound like a completely new amp. Low's will be lower, highs will be higher and the sustain will be better too.

With this you mean replacing all the tubes, or simply the power tubes as you suggested?

 

[tele_jas]

Thanx for the responses guys

...You probably don't need to worry about the preamp tubes or the rectifier tubes right now, just the 6 power tubes...

I've been running the amp in Silicon Diode mode, does this completely bypass the rectifier tubes?

...Preamp tubes will last for a long time (I have an amp that is 36 years old and still has at least one of the original preamp tubes)...

Really :shock: I thought they would be the first things to go?

...You'll be really surprised when you put new tubes in, you don't notice the degrading tone, especially over 4 years.... but when you put in the new tubes it'll sound like a completely new amp. Low's will be lower, highs will be higher and the sustain will be better too.

With this you mean replacing all the tubes, or simply the power tubes as you suggested?

Running in Silicone mode bypasses the rectifier tubes, you can even take them completely out of the amp.

Preamp tubes last a long time and they're the cheapest to replace too.

With just new power amp tubes you'll be surprised at how much better your amp will sound and feel. You won't notice much difference when you replace the preamp tubes unless you get some that are designed to be darker or brighter. I put new power tubes in my 1970 Deluxe after about 8 years and the first chord I hit I about wet myself because it sounded like a new amp. I didn't think it needed new tubes, but I got them "free" on a trade in deal for a speaker cab and I figured "what the heck" and I put them in, I'm glad I did.

 

[jm1681]

Running in Silicone mode bypasses the rectifier tubes, you can even take them completely out of the amp...

Are they heavier tubes? If so, I'm on that

...With just new power amp tubes you'll be surprised at how much better your amp will sound and feel...

Awesome. Thanx for the help

 

[tele_jas]

Running in Silicone mode bypasses the rectifier tubes, you can even take them completely out of the amp...

Are they heavier tubes? If so, I'm on that

No, they aren't heavy tubes. I would personally leave them in just in case you ever need to trouble shoot the amp in the future. But I ran my Tremoverb without any rectifier tubes in it for a couple of months. It's your call man, but if that switch ever gets bumped to the tube mode it may pop the fuse.

 

[jm1681]

...It's your call man, but if that switch ever gets bumped to the tube mode it may pop the fuse.

Good call, they'll remain.

Thanx again

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

Preamp should be fine if nothing has gone microphonic on you.

Rectifer tubes are like light bulbs...if they still work, there is no need to replace them. They are not in the signal chain.

Power tubes is what you want to look into. I'm running JJ 6L6s at the moment, and am very happy with them!

If you like the silicon diode setting, I would also invest in a pair of JJ GZ-34 rectifier tubes. They really tighten the amp up, getting it closer the the diode setting, but not SOOO tight.....I find the silicon diode to just be way too stiff.

 

[jm1681]

Thats 3 for power tubes.

Looks like I know what to get

Thanx a bunch for the help guys

 

[jm1681]

Bumping for advice, and knowledge...

I'm ready to buy tubes finally (Yes, 4 months later ). I've been looking at these for power tubes...

http://www.tubedepot.com/so-6l6wxt.html

and these for preamp tubes (When the time comes that is)...

http://www.tubedepot.com/jj-ecc83.html

About the power tubes, will I have to re-bias the amp? I know Mesa amps are fixed bias, but is that a Mesa tube only thing, or will any 6L6 drop right in?

As for the preamp tubes, I'd like to get a richer tone out of my Recto. More harmonics, brighter tone, less flub, more definition, etc...

Overall, I'd like to get closer to the sound of a Mark IV, without actually getting a Mark IV (seeing as how I don't have enough money to purchase one ). Any recomendations to get me closer to where I want to be?

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

Those Sovtek 6L6WXT+ you're looking at are the same tubes as the STR-430 your amp came stock with. Not a bad tube but IMO there are better. The new Mesa STR 440 is the Ruby 6L6GC-MSTR which are supposed to be very nice...a copy of the old Sylvania STR. (I just got a set of these yesterday...will report on them after rehearsal on Wed) The SED wing-C 6L6 is another great tube in the Recto. The JJ's are great as well, but the last set I had didnt last very long (less than a year).

The JJ pre's you mentioned are pretty decent if you get the ones tested for high gain...the standard ones are kinda dark sounding. For "brighter tone, less flub, more definition" look at the TungSol reissues. Or get your wallet out and go with NOS.

Sound like a Mark IV...not gonna happen with a Recto. They are two entirely different beasts. You can get close to the tightness and response of a Mark, but the tone will still be Recto all the way. Try boosting the front-end with an EQ pedal or an overdrive with the gain low/vol high. Run your amp in silicon diode mode or change the rectifier tubes to a 5AR4/GZ34 type. Try using high-wattage, high-efficiency speakers like EV's, C-90's or something similar.

 

[jm1681]

...The new Mesa STR 440 is the Ruby 6L6GC-MSTR...

How does the tone compare the the STR 430?

......The JJ pre's you mentioned are pretty decent if you get the ones tested for high gain...the standard ones are kinda dark sounding. For "brighter tone, less flub, more definition" look at the TungSol reissues...

Link for the TungSols?

...You can get close to the tightness and response of a Mark, but the tone will still be Recto all the way...

I can live with that Are said tube selections a step in the right direction?

...Try using high-wattage, high-efficiency speakers like EV's, C-90's or something similar.

I actually had a MK series cab with C90s and EV12s. Sold it on a whim and regretted it ever since. Was it really as big a part of my tone as I think it was?

 

[dennq45]

I didnt care for the JJ 6L6's. The SED =C= 6L6 is a much nicer sounding tube but they will cost you more. Buy one Tung-Sol 12AX7 for V1 and you are off to the races.

 

[eaeolian]

The new Mesa STR 440 is the Ruby 6L6GC-MSTR which are supposed to be very nice...a copy of the old Sylvania STR. (I just got a set of these yesterday...will report on them after rehearsal on Wed)

I've been using these for about a year. They kick the crap out of the 430s - they have a much more "musical" midrange, and are nice and punchy while still having that 6L6 "scoop".

 

[jm1681]

Seeing as how cost is unfortunately a factor, I think I'm going to try the Sovtek 6L6WXT+ first. I've heard good things, above all, good high-end definition. Add to the fact that I can get 3 matched pairs for under $70 and I'm sold.

Right now my amp is just starving for tubes. The sound isn't dead, but it feels so lifeless from how I remember it. I really just need to put something into it to see if it is worth saving, or if I should start saving for a Mark IV.

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

I've been using these for about a year. They kick the crap out of the 430s - they have a much more "musical" midrange, and are nice and punchy while still having that 6L6 "scoop".

Nice. Very nice.

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

...How does the tone compare the the STR 430?

...Link for the TungSols?

...Are said tube selections a step in the right direction?

...I actually had a MK series cab with C90s and EV12s. Sold it on a whim and regretted it ever since. Was it really as big a part of my tone as I think it was?

eaeolian seems to like them...I'll know for sure Wed night when I see how they sound in a band mix, but they seem promising.

www.kcanostubes.com
www.dougstubes.com

Yes. Even replacing the power tubes with the same WXT/STR430 will be a huge improvement just because they are new.

Most definately YES

 

[jm1681]

Thanks for the links Should I used Tung Sols to replace all 5 12AX7s? Again, clarity is the most important aspect I'm looking for. I like a brighter, crisper sound, but I do need the low-end to be thick as well.

...Most definately YES

I think I'm going to move speakers up on the list. Probably going with C90s up top, and EVM12s on the bottom.

 

[eaeolian]

Thanks for the links Should I used Tung Sols to replace all 5 12AX7s? Again, clarity is the most important aspect I'm looking for. I like a brighter, crisper sound, but I do need the low-end to be thick as well.

Simply changing V1 was enough for me. However, changing your speakers will make a MUCH bigger difference than preamp tubes.