So I have thin walls between me and my neighbors, which means recording at home through my cab is not really an option. I want to try to go through the line in on my PC with my 3x Rectifier and record direct(might sound not so great, but the only choice for now). Do I need to use the FX loop for this? If so, how? Or perhaps another alternative...
Triple Rec direct
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I would not recommend connecting anything to the computer yet. You will destroy your amp or your computer or both.
Others can chime in as i dont know everything about this but there really isnt a way to go direct. Possibly if you have a slave out and that has a separate volume nob but still. NEVER and i say NEVER try going from your speaker outputs into your computer. It would be like crossing the streams.
Any decent tone is going to come from your Head to Cab Relation.
I live in a town house and plan on blowing my neibors away with my Triple when i start recording. However if it turns out to be way to noisy i my just try to find like 8-10 foam walls to entomb my rig may dampen it more and be able to actually get better recordings.
Others can chime in as i dont know everything about this but there really isnt a way to go direct. Possibly if you have a slave out and that has a separate volume nob but still. NEVER and i say NEVER try going from your speaker outputs into your computer. It would be like crossing the streams.
Any decent tone is going to come from your Head to Cab Relation.
I live in a town house and plan on blowing my neibors away with my Triple when i start recording. However if it turns out to be way to noisy i my just try to find like 8-10 foam walls to entomb my rig may dampen it more and be able to actually get better recordings.
I wish I had read your reply a little earlier, because as it is now, I think I just fried my Mesa! Not sure how though. I went out from the FX send direct into the line in on the PC, got the sound no problem. I started messing with the assign knob for some reason, I dialed to the loop bypass and upon doing so the tubes(or at least one in particular)became quite bright with a whirring sound, then everything shut down. Now I cannot get it back on. What happened?
screamingdaisy
Well-known member
Did you have the head plugged into a cab?
fluff191
Well-known member
amokrun said:
You ALWAYS have to have a load of some sort on the amp. Period.
In your case, you need a dummy load box instead of a cab. What you really need to do is just get a Mesa recording pre.
screamingdaisy
Well-known member
amokrun said:
Check the fuse and try replacing it. If you're lucky the fuse went first and your amp is ok. If you're unlucky you blew the output transformer. Last I heard they ran around $350 for a replacement, plus labour.
Pro tip: Never turn on a tube amp when it's not plugged into a speaker cab (or a dummy load).
Even if a new fuse will power up the amp you most likely fried some powertubes, took out a screen grid resistor or two, or maybe even fried the output tranny.
Mesa's are rather tough, so I'm betting the OT is OK, but you better get it checked for other 'light' damage.
Let this be a lesson learned, NEVER run a tube amp without a load on the Output Tranny.
NEVER!
Dom
Mesa's are rather tough, so I'm betting the OT is OK, but you better get it checked for other 'light' damage.
Let this be a lesson learned, NEVER run a tube amp without a load on the Output Tranny.
NEVER!
Dom
screamingdaisy
Well-known member
amokrun said:
It simulates a speaker load... except instead of turning the energy into sound it dissipates it as heat.
If you'd left the loop assign on it would've slowly damaged the amp. The Triple Recto has a parallel loop, so there's a small amount of signal leaked through the loop and into the power amplifier.
In the future, hook the amp up to a cab and turn the master output down to zero.
94Tremoverb
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I just fixed a Single Rec that someone did this to a few weeks ago. He only blew a tube and the fuse, the OT was fine and no fried screen resistors. With luck (and knowing Mesa build quality) yours will be OK too. If you're *extremely* lucky you might even have not blown any of the tubes.
It's not quite true that damage will occur slowly. Either something blows or it doesn't, and if you get away with it there is almost never any damage, even over a long period. The risk is if significant power is developed - usually, you will actually be fine at low volume (this *doesn't* mean it's a good idea to try it though! So please don't take this as 'advice'...), but the problem is that some amps - of which the Rectifier series is a good example - are unstable with no load connected and will *effectively* put out full power even with no signal - that's what the 'whirring noise' was most likely, it was the amp self-oscillating. The loop being in use suppressed it... until it was bypassed.
You *can* actually safely run the amp with no load - but there's only one way, which is to remove all of the power tubes. If you do this, no power can be put out so there is no risk. If not, you *must* use a dummy load, which is basically a high-powered resistor that absorbs the power from the amp instead of using a speaker. Most commercial attenuators have a 'load' function. But, if you're trying to use it for recording by using the FX send or even with a dummy load, it will sound terrible unless your computer has some sort of speaker/cab emulation in the recording software, so there's not much point in trying it.
To be perfectly honest, for silent recording you're as well using a preamp pedal or something, it's a lot less hassle and risk and will probably even sound better.
It's not quite true that damage will occur slowly. Either something blows or it doesn't, and if you get away with it there is almost never any damage, even over a long period. The risk is if significant power is developed - usually, you will actually be fine at low volume (this *doesn't* mean it's a good idea to try it though! So please don't take this as 'advice'...), but the problem is that some amps - of which the Rectifier series is a good example - are unstable with no load connected and will *effectively* put out full power even with no signal - that's what the 'whirring noise' was most likely, it was the amp self-oscillating. The loop being in use suppressed it... until it was bypassed.
You *can* actually safely run the amp with no load - but there's only one way, which is to remove all of the power tubes. If you do this, no power can be put out so there is no risk. If not, you *must* use a dummy load, which is basically a high-powered resistor that absorbs the power from the amp instead of using a speaker. Most commercial attenuators have a 'load' function. But, if you're trying to use it for recording by using the FX send or even with a dummy load, it will sound terrible unless your computer has some sort of speaker/cab emulation in the recording software, so there's not much point in trying it.
To be perfectly honest, for silent recording you're as well using a preamp pedal or something, it's a lot less hassle and risk and will probably even sound better.
ibanez4life SZ!
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Lame...best to you...I hope you didn't take out too much.
It's really hard for me to believe that people own tube amps without even knowing these basics about them. :?
It's really hard for me to believe that people own tube amps without even knowing these basics about them. :?
What you attempted would have worked had you had the speaker plugged in. You can use the FX out as long as the speakers are plugged in. Turn the master volume down and very little signal should get to the power amp. You might get a little out of the cab but it will be very quiet. At that point the FX send becomes your master volume control to get the levels into your card set to the correct level.
As you found out, you need to have a speakers plugged into the amp at all times.
Another thing to note is any influence the power amp and speakers have on the sound of the amp will be lost as those parts of the amp will not be used. Likewise the presence controls for any mode but modern will be lost. You'll have to use some sort speaker simulation.
As you found out, you need to have a speakers plugged into the amp at all times.
Another thing to note is any influence the power amp and speakers have on the sound of the amp will be lost as those parts of the amp will not be used. Likewise the presence controls for any mode but modern will be lost. You'll have to use some sort speaker simulation.
Once you get your amp in working order again and make sure its connected to your cab or a load box, youll be safe. You can record from your fx send, or the slave out, however, this will be all preamp signal. For clean sounds, it could work, for distortion, that preamp signal is probably going to sound thin and scratchy, basically it will just sound horrible.
But dont stop there. Go get LeCab from Lepou plugins. Its free, as with all of his amp sims which are very good. Then go find a good set of free speaker impulse responses. Or go to Recabi.net and buy their set, which supplies you with a lot of good speaker options, mic options, selection of 6l6 or el34 power section, and its only like $15 right now. All you need to know is that your impulse is a wav file, and lecab is an impulse loader. You can get into the details, but for now lets just keep focused on the sound and making it work.
So basically youll have your track recorded from your fx send or slave out. What daw youre using, Cubase, Resaon, etc, youll go into the channel inserts and load LeCab. Now your signal is routed into that insert. And within LeCab, you load an impulse of your choice. Basically your adding a virtual power section and speaker cab to your preamp signal so now it sounds like a real amp again.
Its a very simple process and gets you great tone without having loud volume, micing techniques, preamps, interfaces, cables, and that whole signal chain.
Goodluck. Head over to guitarampmodeling or recabi.net for more info on using impulses and getting solid recordings from just your preamp signal.
But dont stop there. Go get LeCab from Lepou plugins. Its free, as with all of his amp sims which are very good. Then go find a good set of free speaker impulse responses. Or go to Recabi.net and buy their set, which supplies you with a lot of good speaker options, mic options, selection of 6l6 or el34 power section, and its only like $15 right now. All you need to know is that your impulse is a wav file, and lecab is an impulse loader. You can get into the details, but for now lets just keep focused on the sound and making it work.
So basically youll have your track recorded from your fx send or slave out. What daw youre using, Cubase, Resaon, etc, youll go into the channel inserts and load LeCab. Now your signal is routed into that insert. And within LeCab, you load an impulse of your choice. Basically your adding a virtual power section and speaker cab to your preamp signal so now it sounds like a real amp again.
Its a very simple process and gets you great tone without having loud volume, micing techniques, preamps, interfaces, cables, and that whole signal chain.
Goodluck. Head over to guitarampmodeling or recabi.net for more info on using impulses and getting solid recordings from just your preamp signal.
94Tremoverb
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Here's what to do to find out what needs replacing, without paying a tech to do it:
1 - buy several new fuses of the right value (T4A for a Dual Rec, not sure about a Triple - it may be slightly higher, but you must use a 'T', Slo-Blo or Anti-Surge fuse). It says on the back panel what it is. 3 is probably enough, but 5 or 6 is not too many.
2 - remove all the power and rectifier tubes, labeling them in some way so you know which sockets they came out of. Replace the fuse and power the amp up, with it set to Silicon Diode. If the fuse blows either when switching on the power or coming off standby, you have a major problem - tech time.
If the fuse doesn't blow:
3 - replace one of the rectifier tubes, set the amp to Vacuum Tube and turn on again - if the fuse blows, the rectifier tube is fried (not very likely, but you need to eliminate this first). If it holds, pull the rectifier and try another one, then if it holds do the same again with the third one. If none of the rectifiers blow the fuse, put them all back in - they're OK.
4 - now, put in just one power tube, in the socket it came out of, and connect the amp to a cabinet. (It's safe to run an amp like this with any number of power tubes from none to all of them.) Turn on, and if the fuse pops when you turn on or come out of standby, the tube is dead - throw it out. If the fuse doesn't pop, listen to the cab - you should hear hiss. If not even the faintest hiss comes out, the screen resistor for that socket may be fried. Turn off, and repeat with each tube alone in its original socket - if the fuse blows, throw out the tube, and if there is no sound, make a note of which tube and socket it is. (The tube may also be dead.)
5 - now, you should have probably one or more blown tubes (most likely only one, or if you're very lucky, none). If you had any sockets that made no sound, and some tubes/sockets that were definitely OK, try one of the good tubes in the dead socket - if still no sound, the screen resistor is blown. If the screen resistor is blown, it's pretty certain that the tube that came from that socket is also blown, so don't waste a fuse or risk further amp damage by testing that tube in a good socket, throw it out too.
6 - if at this point you have at least two good tubes and two good sockets, one on each side of the power section (one socket from 1-3 and one from 4-6), you can put two of the tubes in and test the amp. Connect the cab to the jack for half its impedance (eg 4 ohms for an 8-ohm cab). Crank it up and test it - if it's all good, the major parts of the amp are fine. If you have four good tubes and sockets (the same, two on each side of the power section), fit those and try again. Listen and make sure it sounds good and is as loud as you would expect (1/3 or 2/3 of full power with 2 or 4 tubes in, ie not much quieter than normal).
7 - if there are no dead sockets, only dead tubes, and the amp sounds OK, all you need are new tubes. To be honest I would replace all 6 and keep the survivors as spares, rather than just replace one or two.
If you get through all this and find only dead tubes and no dead sockets or other amp damage, thank Mesa for building a great amp. If you find no dead tubes either, watch out because you have used up all your good karma for a while
.
1 - buy several new fuses of the right value (T4A for a Dual Rec, not sure about a Triple - it may be slightly higher, but you must use a 'T', Slo-Blo or Anti-Surge fuse). It says on the back panel what it is. 3 is probably enough, but 5 or 6 is not too many.
2 - remove all the power and rectifier tubes, labeling them in some way so you know which sockets they came out of. Replace the fuse and power the amp up, with it set to Silicon Diode. If the fuse blows either when switching on the power or coming off standby, you have a major problem - tech time.
If the fuse doesn't blow:
3 - replace one of the rectifier tubes, set the amp to Vacuum Tube and turn on again - if the fuse blows, the rectifier tube is fried (not very likely, but you need to eliminate this first). If it holds, pull the rectifier and try another one, then if it holds do the same again with the third one. If none of the rectifiers blow the fuse, put them all back in - they're OK.
4 - now, put in just one power tube, in the socket it came out of, and connect the amp to a cabinet. (It's safe to run an amp like this with any number of power tubes from none to all of them.) Turn on, and if the fuse pops when you turn on or come out of standby, the tube is dead - throw it out. If the fuse doesn't pop, listen to the cab - you should hear hiss. If not even the faintest hiss comes out, the screen resistor for that socket may be fried. Turn off, and repeat with each tube alone in its original socket - if the fuse blows, throw out the tube, and if there is no sound, make a note of which tube and socket it is. (The tube may also be dead.)
5 - now, you should have probably one or more blown tubes (most likely only one, or if you're very lucky, none). If you had any sockets that made no sound, and some tubes/sockets that were definitely OK, try one of the good tubes in the dead socket - if still no sound, the screen resistor is blown. If the screen resistor is blown, it's pretty certain that the tube that came from that socket is also blown, so don't waste a fuse or risk further amp damage by testing that tube in a good socket, throw it out too.
6 - if at this point you have at least two good tubes and two good sockets, one on each side of the power section (one socket from 1-3 and one from 4-6), you can put two of the tubes in and test the amp. Connect the cab to the jack for half its impedance (eg 4 ohms for an 8-ohm cab). Crank it up and test it - if it's all good, the major parts of the amp are fine. If you have four good tubes and sockets (the same, two on each side of the power section), fit those and try again. Listen and make sure it sounds good and is as loud as you would expect (1/3 or 2/3 of full power with 2 or 4 tubes in, ie not much quieter than normal).
7 - if there are no dead sockets, only dead tubes, and the amp sounds OK, all you need are new tubes. To be honest I would replace all 6 and keep the survivors as spares, rather than just replace one or two.
If you get through all this and find only dead tubes and no dead sockets or other amp damage, thank Mesa for building a great amp. If you find no dead tubes either, watch out because you have used up all your good karma for a while
.
