Tried an Express 5:50 and 5:25... disappointed

[Newysurfer]

Fair enough Darren - I hear ya. I'm not a metal player but if I ever decide to get into it I'd just add a pedal to the Express. It's horse for courses. Sometimes I play with 4x12 cab or a 2x12 one & adding a closed cab does harden up the edge considerably on the Express but is still probably lacking a touch on the thunder for your purposes. I play a lot of lead and everything from clean SRV style blues thru to Audioslave so the Express covers all those bases. I need a lot of effects too so I sometimes add stompbox's or a Boss GT8 to the Express.

 

[Rocky]

I have tried both Express models and a 5:50 head into a Recto standard cab. None of the configurations were up to my expectations.

 

[Jack Dotson]

Well, here's the thing.

I tried the Express 5:50 and 5:25 pretty much back-to-back against an F-30. The Express amps could do a singing "liquid" high-gain lead tone nicely, but nothing i did could get it to produce that tight, fast, percussive "chunk" sound for high-gain rhythm. The F-30 could do that easily Channel 2, and in spades with the Contour kicked in. This is all with the same guitar.

Personally, if i'm dropping over a grand on an amp, i want it to have the core tones i'm looking for, without having to use a pedal.

I'm not saying the Express series are bad amps at all. I think Mesa did a tremendous job in giving them a lot of tonal versatility within a defined range. I really liked the sound of all four modes. It's just that the range Mesa defined for them doesn't extend as far into high-gain territory as the F-series covered for a rhythm player, and i happen to use that high end of the gain spectrum fairly regularly, which is why i was disappointed that they're slightly more limiting in that regard.

If i only used a lot of gain for playing leads, i'd probably be very happy with the Express. But i'm primarily a rhythm player, and while i found the modes available on the Express amps to be really cool, they were all missing that "thump" i was able to get out of the F-30. Maybe a closed-back cab would help. But i really want a combo. (I wish i knew why there aren't more closed-back combos on the market.)

Darren, this is an old post, but I'm a newbe to the forums and recently pruchased a NOS F-30 from GC. When I first started shopping they had the F-50 and the Express 5/25 and 5/50's. I tried them all and liked each of them with the 5/25 being my favorite. But, like you, I'm a rhythm player and still felt something was missing.

A couple of weeks later I went back and there set a new F-30 that was on sale (rare for Boogies). It didn't take five minutes with the little brute to realize I could dial in virtually every sound I was looking for. I even liked the clean channel better than the other models. It can be a bright little burger and you sure as hell can't dime it, but dial things back a bit and gets nice and sweet. And it sounds good at all levels.

I bought it on sale new for $699 + tax and was tickled pink. It's the most satisfying amp I've ever owned. Of course tone is subjective, but I think for those of us who are primarily rhythm players this amp fits like a glove.

 

[Don]

That's a nice deal!

I just bought a 5:50 this past Sunday. I tried the Lonestar special, F-50, 5:25 and 5:50.

The Lonestar Special had the best clean sound by far, maybe better than my Vibrolux Reverb! The 5:50 was a close second in that department.

I liked the clean sound of the 5:25 the least. It sounded a bit small and boxy. I didn't notice that until I played it along side the LSS.

The F-50's clean sound was fine.

The F-50 had the best high gain sound by far. The 5:25 and 5:50 had less gain, and weren't as defined as the F-50, but sounded good to me, though I'm not a metal player.

I wasn't looking for the looser higher gain sounds that the LSS provided.

I was shopping for a moderately high gain rock amp as I already have a couple of nice sounding clean amps and ended up choosing the 5:50 for it's portability, clean sound, high(ish) gain sound, versatility and price.

 

[darren]

Just as an update, i've finally bit the bullet and bought a used F-30 head on eBay for $550 plus shipping. With a barely-used set of JJs in it, as well! It should go nicely with my Thiele 1x12 cab.

I'm finally a Mesa amp owner after all of these years!

Now i just have to figure out how to integrate it into my setup... i've been using digital modeling exclusively for the last 6 years or so. :?

I can't wait to get this little guy. I'm already planning on modding the effects loop to be series/parallel switchable.

 

[nomad100hd]

the funny thing is, to tighten up the express it's probably just a 1 or 2 cap change in the PS.

 

[darren]

Why would anyone buy a new amp and immediately change components in the tone stack? Or are you suggesting that Mesa could have made these changes to make the amps tighter?

I think Mesa could have made these amps more appealing to a wider range of people if they kept what was good about the F-series and added the mid-gain versatility instead of abandoning the "simple, high-gain, small amp" idea completely.

 

[nomad100hd]

Not in the tone stack in the power supply, and yes I'm suggesting buy a new amp and mod it. That's half the fun modding to get the tone your after, it's part of the art of playing guitar.

In general the way tube amps are built, you normally can't get the good low to mid gain tone if the amp does high gain. There would be to much series resistance in line with the grid of the next gain stage.

This mesa amp with it's low power mode is real good for power tube distortion and that's more classic rock than metal. Power tube distortion is what i believe this amp was designed for. It's probably not a coincidence that right after the man who invented the train wreck amps died mesa came out with this amp. With very similar features!

How many amp lines can a company really support. Doesn't the rectifier series cover the high gain stuff closely enough to the F series? If i remember correctly the single rect sounded similar.

 

[Hobo]

Just as an update, i've finally bit the bullet and bought a used F-30 head on eBay for $550 plus shipping. With a barely-used set of JJs in it, as well! It should go nicely with my Thiele 1x12 cab.

I'm finally a Mesa amp owner after all of these years!

Now i just have to figure out how to integrate it into my setup... i've been using digital modeling exclusively for the last 6 years or so. :?

I can't wait to get this little guy. I'm already planning on modding the effects loop to be series/parallel switchable.

Congrats on the new amp. I have an F-30 and LOVE it.
I bought it used and it sounded good but after I replaced the stock Mesa tubes with JJs the amp sounded INCREDIBLE. Tightened it up, no flubbiness, and made it crunchier. I play bluesy classic rock. I never turn the gain past 10:00.

This is an under rated amp. Since it is no longer being made it is destined to become a very sought after classic.

 

[Artmusic]

Just as an update, i've finally bit the bullet and bought a used F-30 head on eBay for $550 plus shipping. With a barely-used set of JJs in it, as well! It should go nicely with my Thiele 1x12 cab.

I'm finally a Mesa amp owner after all of these years!

Now i just have to figure out how to integrate it into my setup... i've been using digital modeling exclusively for the last 6 years or so. :?

I can't wait to get this little guy. I'm already planning on modding the effects loop to be series/parallel switchable.

Congrats on the new amp. I have an F-30 and LOVE it.
I bought it used and it sounded good but after I replaced the stock Mesa tubes with JJs the amp sounded INCREDIBLE. Tightened it up, no flubbiness, and made it crunchier. I play bluesy classic rock. I never turn the gain past 10:00.

This is an under rated amp. Since it is no longer being made it is destined to become a very sought after classic.

I to have had my F-30 for the last few years, and since then, amps have come and gone, but this little amp is going nowhere. It has pleanty of power to play most gigs, it cuts through the mix like a knife, and though I don't use it for metal, the lead channel is in my opinion, excellent. I boost the amp with a Fulltone GT-500 and use a Thiele cab. Both of my Les Pauls sound great through this amp, I play mostly blues, rock, some funky R&B, it works great for everything I do.
Art

 

[Roaster]

I would agree with Darren's original assessment. Amazingly good cleans, and some decent grit in this amp if you dial it in right - but the gain element of this amp is sorely lacking. I found it to be quite weak, inarticulate, and generally displeasing to my ears. Let me say that I've been a Mesa devotee since 1989 and know what they're capable of. I still own my original .50 cal plus and a newer Stilettto Ace that are excellent for what I'm after, but the Express sadly has fallen very short of my expectations. A lot of posters here tout the versatility of this amp, but it seems to me that it's versatility is limited to those who aren't after a basic classic crunchy (not metal) chunk. I'm no metal head, so I'm not expecting insane amounts of gain here - it's just to me there's no way to dial in a fundamental good sounding rhythm crunch. Interestingly, as an experiment I put a SansAmp GT2 in front of the clean channel and the amp ROARED to life. This leads me to believe that there must be inherent limitations within the 5:50's preamp design. Mind you, I much prefer tube preamps to those simulated in a black box, but there's no denying how well the folks at Tech21 are able to come so **** close. So all said, I may use the amp this way, or you may see it up on the classifieds soon - but to repeat earlier sentiment, if you drop that much cash on a Mesa, or any amp, you shouldn't have to rely on a pedal to get the sounds you want out of it.

Otherwise, I'd say the amp has (typically) great Mesa build quality, is loud as a mofo, and sports clean, simple, and functional design. It's perfect for player's who lean towards cleaner styles - which unfortunately counts me out.

 

[Don]

Although it was the 5:50's cleans that sold me, it is it's mid gain sounds that have hooked me! In fact, I sacrifice it's clean sound to use the Crunch mode for mid gain sounds. It has become my favorite mode in the amp.

The only thing that I don't like about the Express is that Clean and Crunch are on the same channel and I have to EQ them differently to get the sounds that I like.

I find the 5:50's Blues and Burn mode to be less satisfactory than the other two modes. In fact, the perfect amp for me would be an Express 5:50 with two channels that are similar to it's Clean and Crunch modes.

I tried an F-50 when I bought my 5:50. The F-50 was nice, a better metal amp, but I don't play metal and the 5:50 has better clean and mid gain sounds.

It was well worth paying 50% more for my 5:50 compared the the F-50 that I played along side it.

 

[Newysurfer]

I would agree with Darren's original assessment. Amazingly good cleans, and some decent grit in this amp if you dial it in right - but the gain element of this amp is sorely lacking. I found it to be quite weak, inarticulate, and generally displeasing to my ears. Let me say that I've been a Mesa devotee since 1989 and know what they're capable of. I still own my original .50 cal plus and a newer Stilettto Ace that are excellent for what I'm after, but the Express sadly has fallen very short of my expectations. A lot of posters here tout the versatility of this amp, but it seems to me that it's versatility is limited to those who aren't after a basic classic crunchy (not metal) chunk. I'm no metal head, so I'm not expecting insane amounts of gain here - it's just to me there's no way to dial in a fundamental good sounding rhythm crunch. Interestingly, as an experiment I put a SansAmp GT2 in front of the clean channel and the amp ROARED to life. This leads me to believe that there must be inherent limitations within the 5:50's preamp design. Mind you, I much prefer tube preamps to those simulated in a black box, but there's no denying how well the folks at Tech21 are able to come so **** close. So all said, I may use the amp this way, or you may see it up on the classifieds soon - but to repeat earlier sentiment, if you drop that much cash on a Mesa, or any amp, you shouldn't have to rely on a pedal to get the sounds you want out of it.

Otherwise, I'd say the amp has (typically) great Mesa build quality, is loud as a mofo, and sports clean, simple, and functional design. It's perfect for player's who lean towards cleaner styles - which unfortunately counts me out.

Everyone has different tastes of course but I really like the 5:50's burn channel. The whole amp is quite bassy so you have to dial it down to get good tones IMHO. With Treble on 2pm, Mid on 11am and Bass at 10am, Gain between 1 and 4pm and the contour on or off, the Burn channel starts to shine. I also have an MXR EQ pedal so I can get the Burn channel to sound really great on in a wide range of settings. Mid-scooped it does heavy rock great too. Each to their own

 

[cabowabo5150]

If its not gainy enough have you thought about adding a pedal in front of it?