tremoverb effects loop...stomp box or effects processor

[5150vh]

hello,
well i got a question to all mesa effects loop users. i have been told by a mesa tech in my town that i shouldn't be running stomp boxes through my tremoverb head. in fact he said this of all amps in general. if was to run any, it would have to be a rack unit (effects processor) which i own one but what if somebody doesn't have one & wants to use the effects loop, then what? he mentioned the line out of the amp & the effects should be level. what he told me is this & will describe it as best i can in words. the line out from the amp is set at let's say 4" tall with the length being whatever but the stomp box in this case, my boss dd-2 delay, is 1" tall. he's telling me that i'm making the amp cram the line out signal (4" tall) to a space of 1" which could fry my pedal. the manual does say to use an effect processor but that if i'm using a pedal to listen for clipping. what's that, popping, hissing, what? does this also mean that mesa says it's okay to use a stomp box through the effects loop? because that's what it sounds like. thanks for reading.

 

[Klaasman]

My experience with my rectoverb's effects loop is that the output signal, which is based on your Master setting, is too hot for most pedals. If you keep the Master below 9 o'clock, it should be fine.
Some pedals, such as my Boss DD-20, allow you to select input sensitivity between -10 or +4 for hotter signals without distorting.

 

[5150vh]

thanks for the response. i did not describe the right pedal previously sorry about that. the only thing i'm running through is a boss digital delay dd-6. it can run mono or stereo which i have run through a soldano's effects loop with no problems. both are running in stereo & sounds incredible. yes both the tremoverb & the soldano are running off the boss pedal so it might be too hot for a small unit to take. however, i have played numerous gigs like this with no problems (just jinxed myself).

 

[gambit]

Im so glad you made this topic, im having trouble with my tremoverbs effects loop too.

I was running a boss flanger, eq, delay and a mxr micro amp and phaser on it.

The flanger and eq I had to take out, the other three seem very good now.

I am having volume issues though, what is the send and mix level in the back of the amp? What do they do?

Im also confused as to if the masterloop in the front of the tremoverb controls the master volume when using the effects, then what do the original volumes do?

thanks!

 

[gambit]

Im also confused as to if I should only be using certain lengths of line and such for the effects loop.

please help!

 

[stephen sawall]

Im also confused as to if I should only be using certain lengths of line and such for the effects loop.

please help!

No as long as they are less than 50 feet long you should be fine.

First set up the amp with the effects loop off. Nothing but guitar, amp, speaker. Do not hook up any pedals at all or anything else .... is there a volume problem ?

Almost all effects loops are for line level effects and do not work well with pedals. This may be part of why you are losing volume. If the pedal is not line level it belongs in front of the amp. What effects are you using ? Make and pedal ?

You can set the send level low and the the loop master in front high to get it more in the range of pedals .... but it is not the way I would do it.

The signal chain goes something like this ....

Master for each channel (front) ~ use these to balance the volume of both channels

Send level (back) ~ this controls the level sent to effects.

Mix level (back) ~ This is a blend knob for effects and dry amp.

Loop Master (front) ~ the final volume after effects before power amp.

Here is how to control it .....

Send level, Mix Level, Loop master all at noon with the loop bypassed on the back.

Set up the master volumes (front) to the volume you want for both channels.

Turn the loop on in the back. .... adjust the send level so the it does not distort. Best would be so it is the same volume as when the loop is turned off.

Best to do this with the cleaner of the two you set up. The more gain you have the more compressed it is. You are more likely to find distortion in the loop by a send level set to high here.

Now adjust the loop master to the volume you want.

Adjust the mix level till you have the mix of dry amp and effects you want.

Now start over by fine tuning the knobs in the order told above .... if you did it right you well move them very little or none.

Of the effects you mention here .... the EQ and delay are the only ones I would put in the loop. The Flanger should also work but I feel this pedal sounds best in front.

The phaser and micro amp do not belong in the loop at all.

I would go in this order ....

Micro Amp
Phaser
Flanger

Amp

In Loop ...

EQ
Delay.

Any Qusestions ?

 

[pokerrules47]

+1 on the delay and EQ in the loop. Almost all the other effects should be before the amp (wah, distortion, flanger, phasers etc).

The OP's question is valid. The level coming out of a mesa loop, if you have a really short cable, could be too much for it's input and could possibly fry it. Most "decent" pedals would be immune to this, but some cheaper ones wouldn't last too long. On shorter cables the signal could load up pretty hot going into the input of the pedal. If you had your master maxed, I can see it frying something. I have never experienced it, however I can see it happening.

Now, don't go crazy and add a 50ft cable on either side of your loop, your will lose some frequencies on long cable runs.

Is the loop serial or parallel? A lot of people whine about mesa's parallel loops but I've never really had problems with them. I use good effects (when I use them) and they always have input level control.

Also +1 on the master controlling the level into the loop. I don't know why mesa does it this way, but they do. If you have no control over the input level of your effect then you are going to have to keep your master way down, and your output really high. That sounds decent, however, you lose the ability to use the solo function of your amp (pure physics as the solo function boosts above your output volume level, if your output volume level is already very high, or maxed, you won't have much if any room to boost).

What I've always ended up doing is just putting all pedals in front of the amp, and any decent rack effects in the loop. That way you can't go wrong. Just make sure all your pedals are true bypass and use batteries instead of power adapters.

 

[echoes420]

Just make sure all your pedals are true bypass and use batteries instead of power adapters.

I have always heard this and wondered why so many people subscribe to this idea. I think the logic behind it is to keep the power flowing to it as constant and level as possible... but wouldn't using a power conditioner do the same thing and not cost hundreds of dollars a year to replace batteries?

Especially delay pedals... holy hell... they eat a brand new duracell or energizer battery in like an hour.

I have recently been recording my band and running simple little experiments and one of them involved the battery theory.... which the conclusion was there is NO difference whatsoever to a TS808 with a battery and a TS808 with a power adapter plugged into a monster power conditioner. Just thought I would throw my two cents in there.

 

[stephen sawall]

hello,
well i got a question to all mesa effects loop users. i have been told by a mesa tech in my town that i shouldn't be running stomp boxes through my tremoverb head. in fact he said this of all amps in general. if was to run any, it would have to be a rack unit (effects processor) which i own one but what if somebody doesn't have one & wants to use the effects loop, then what? he mentioned the line out of the amp & the effects should be level. what he told me is this & will describe it as best i can in words. the line out from the amp is set at let's say 4" tall with the length being whatever but the stomp box in this case, my boss dd-2 delay, is 1" tall. he's telling me that i'm making the amp cram the line out signal (4" tall) to a space of 1" which could fry my pedal. the manual does say to use an effect processor but that if i'm using a pedal to listen for clipping. what's that, popping, hissing, what? does this also mean that mesa says it's okay to use a stomp box through the effects loop? because that's what it sounds like. thanks for reading.

Most rack mount stuff is line level just like your effects loop. Most pedals are not. In general you only want line level effects in the loop.

Clipping is a other term that means distortion. Often a distorted sound into a oscilloscope is not a wave .... but is square, the top is "clipped" off.

The distortion is not the sweet stuff you get from your amp. But more like the nasty stuff you can get from a fuzz pedal. If you are getting this kind of distortion without a fuzz pedal ... you are clipping. Often this is caused by over driving the front end of a pedal and you may be doing damage to it.

Also as stated above long cords well mess with your tone. Most of this well be heard as loss of high end. ..... in other words the shorter the better.

So to not throw off the guys .... there is no "solo" function on the Tremoverb.

 

[stephen sawall]

Just make sure all your pedals are true bypass and use batteries instead of power adapters.

I have always heard this and wondered why so many people subscribe to this idea. I think the logic behind it is to keep the power flowing to it as constant and level as possible... but wouldn't using a power conditioner do the same thing and not cost hundreds of dollars a year to replace batteries?

Especially delay pedals... holy hell... they eat a brand new duracell or energizer battery in like an hour.

I have recently been recording my band and running simple little experiments and one of them involved the battery theory.... which the conclusion was there is NO difference whatsoever to a TS808 with a battery and a TS808 with a power adapter plugged into a monster power conditioner. Just thought I would throw my two cents in there.

I am not sure how you edited that .... but that is not my quote ?

Some pedals well make a lot of hum with a adapter (not all) the only way around this is battery's.

Your test was only one pedal .... this result well be very different with some pedals.

With most new pedals this is not a problem.

 

[5150vh]

okay i spoke with Chris at Mesa & said it's okay what i am running. yes it's a newer pedal from about a few years back with monster instrument cables running in the loop through the tremoverb. however, there was a slight "fuzziness" the harder i hit the strings on the clean channel. this would occur through both straight to the head & through the pedal board. also, the effects loop was disengaged from the back on both occassions but not physically disconnected from the head. i'll see if actaully taking off the pedal & chords from the effects loop will work & get rid of the fuzziness. now this sound was occurring with channel 1 (clean) volume & gain set at 10:00. the only thing that i'm thinking of what it could be is the chords i am using but they are fairly new & i baby them anyway. in front of the amp, the pedals are connected with george l's & monster cables through the effects loop. the pedals are powered through voodoo lab pedal power 2 plus. the sound does not bother me. i just want to be sure that it's not harmful to any of the equipment. i will try connecting through 2 other amps & see if i get the same sound (carvin x100b head w/4x12 cab/soldano reverb o sonic 2x12 combo). thanks for reading.