Traditional sized 412 cab with V30, best yet on Roadster

[bandit2013]

I have been idle for a while, not posting much but have to share what is already known by many and perhaps not by some. To be honest, I have a preference for EV ( or I did up until now).

I have had a standard slant front Mesa 412 cabinet for over 15 years. It was not until 2012 when I got a Mark V head that I began a strong dislike for the V30 speakers. So much so that I removed them and replaced with EV black shadow speakers. Perfect match to the Mark V. A year or so later, I bought another Mesa head, RA100. Not a good match with EV speakers. Off I went on a quest to find the best sounding speaker to go with the RA100. I used my Mark IV as a test bed for different speakers. I tried a Few, not many though, Fane Studio, Eminence Tonker, and a WGS Black Hawk 100. I really liked the Fane speaker and was ready to get 4 of the Fane Medusa 150C (that was until my resource for the first one dropped the line completely ) I though about the V30's I pulled from the Mesa Cab. They all seemed to test out okay so I bought an inexpensive 412 cab from guitar center. The speakers that came in it were cheesy as was the covering but the rest of the cabinet was well crafted for a $200 purchase. Sounded incredible with the Mark IV, terrible with the Mark V and spectacular with the RA100. Then along came Roadster head. That took over for the Mark V and drove the EV loaded standard mesa cab with authority. As for the Mark V, I converted it to a combo and loaded it with one of the extra EV speakers I had along with a 1x12 extension cab. Then I had in itch for another Mesa cab and ordered a standard 412 with matching grill cloth for the RA100. The new cabinet blew me away. If the old one sounded this good I would not have swapped the speakers out.

Just recently, I was thinking that the EV was a bit too deep for the Roadster and was considering something different in terms of speakers. Had to wheel out the Egnator cab from storage (yes it has casters and slide plates just like the Mesa Cab) WTF? This cheap traditional sized 412 cabinet blows them all away with 15 year old V30 speakers. (Note that when I first got the original cabinet, I rarely used it so there was not much break in time on the original V30's). If you are pondering what speakers or cabinet to use with your Roadster, definitely consider the traditional sized 412 with V30. It works well with the Roadsters darker tone due to the mid range spike in the response curve. The smaller cabinet keeps the flub to non-existent and the entire mix is tight and responsive (not boomy or ice pick). Oddly enough, a power chord rings out very much the same as the standard cabinet with the EV speakers. The only difference, the EV loaded cab is much louder at the same applied amp settings. The other standard cab with the V30 is not disappointing in any way either. Total bliss is with both V30 loaded cabs running at the same time. I have tried the EV with either of the V30 cab and there seems to be a response time difference between them (either that, the decay rate of the one cabinet is quicker than the other). On that note, the mix in speakers sounds great with the Mark V. Now I am considering getting another Mesa Cab but a traditional sized one.

 

[siggy14]

I have been idle for a while, not posting much but have to share what is already known by many and perhaps not by some. To be honest, I have a preference for EV ( or I did up until now).

I have had a standard slant front Mesa 412 cabinet for over 15 years. It was not until 2012 when I got a Mark V head that I began a strong dislike for the V30 speakers. So much so that I removed them and replaced with EV black shadow speakers. Perfect match to the Mark V. A year or so later, I bought another Mesa head, RA100. Not a good match with EV speakers. Off I went on a quest to find the best sounding speaker to go with the RA100. I used my Mark IV as a test bed for different speakers. I tried a Few, not many though, Fane Studio, Eminence Tonker, and a WGS Black Hawk 100. I really liked the Fane speaker and was ready to get 4 of the Fane Medusa 150C (that was until my resource for the first one dropped the line completely ) I though about the V30's I pulled from the Mesa Cab. They all seemed to test out okay so I bought an inexpensive 412 cab from guitar center. The speakers that came in it were cheesy as was the covering but the rest of the cabinet was well crafted for a $200 purchase. Sounded incredible with the Mark IV, terrible with the Mark V and spectacular with the RA100. Then along came Roadster head. That took over for the Mark V and drove the EV loaded standard mesa cab with authority. As for the Mark V, I converted it to a combo and loaded it with one of the extra EV speakers I had along with a 1x12 extension cab. Then I had in itch for another Mesa cab and ordered a standard 412 with matching grill cloth for the RA100. The new cabinet blew me away. If the old one sounded this good I would not have swapped the speakers out.

Just recently, I was thinking that the EV was a bit too deep for the Roadster and was considering something different in terms of speakers. Had to wheel out the Egnator cab from storage (yes it has casters and slide plates just like the Mesa Cab) WTF? This cheap traditional sized 412 cabinet blows them all away with 15 year old V30 speakers. (Note that when I first got the original cabinet, I rarely used it so there was not much break in time on the original V30's). If you are pondering what speakers or cabinet to use with your Roadster, definitely consider the traditional sized 412 with V30. It works well with the Roadsters darker tone due to the mid range spike in the response curve. The smaller cabinet keeps the flub to non-existent and the entire mix is tight and responsive (not boomy or ice pick). Oddly enough, a power chord rings out very much the same as the standard cabinet with the EV speakers. The only difference, the EV loaded cab is much louder at the same applied amp settings. The other standard cab with the V30 is not disappointing in any way either. Total bliss is with both V30 loaded cabs running at the same time. I have tried the EV with either of the V30 cab and there seems to be a response time difference between them (either that, the decay rate of the one cabinet is quicker than the other). On that note, the mix in speakers sounds great with the Mark V. Now I am considering getting another Mesa Cab but a traditional sized one.

I like the Traditional Straight fronts the best, to me they are a nice mix of the slant traditional and the slant oversized, sit right in the middle and very close. To me the Traditional straight has the sizzle of the OS but not the as much low end. The Traditional Slant is all about the Mid's and also sounds good and I own one of those as well.

I have never owned or played a OS True straight front so I cant comment on how they sound, I have only owned the slant and the hybrid slant/straight cab, that is the one that is a slant but has the top shelf so it looks like a straight.

 

[screamingdaisy]

It's kind of cool how each version of the Recto cab has developed its own following. I spend a lot of time plugged into my 2x12 because it's more portable, but the moment I plug back into the Slant Standard (OS) 4x12 and hear the way the mids are voiced and top end smoothed I smile.

I do wish they still made the slant/straight cabs, particularly as some heads are already wider than the top shelf on the slant cabs. And, if I ever wanted a bottom cab I have zero interest in the straight OS version.

 

[afu]

Sweet. I still have my old cab, a Peavey XXX. I like it and it's solid if you consider the price point, but I want to get a Mesa 2x12 or Avatar 2x12 in the future. Does anyone know how the Mesa 2X12s compare for response to the oversized or traditional? Aside from the obvious changes from 4x12 to 2x12, that is.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Sweet. I still have my old cab, a Peavey XXX. I like it and it's solid if you consider the price point, but I want to get a Mesa 2x12 or Avatar 2x12 in the future. Does anyone know how the Mesa 2X12s compare for response to the oversized or traditional? Aside from the obvious changes from 4x12 to 2x12, that is.

The 2x12 has a little more high and low end with a slightly more scooped midrange relative to the 4x12.

 

[bandit2013]

Since I like the new os Recto cab with both the RA100 and the Roadster (was bouncing between the three cabs I have) and finally decided on the new cab sound. One thing lead to another and a new project emerged: transplant the original V30 that were mounted in a traditional sized Egnator 412 cab and put them back into the 15 year old os Recto cab. I was surprise to see that the screws were long enough for the EV basket to be mounted in the Egnator cab. Finally got finished with both cabinets. Took a while to remove the EV speakers since I sealed them with RTV (never again will I do that).

End result: love the V30 in the larger cab. Thought it sounded great in a traditional cab but really like the deeper tone of the oversized cab. The acid test was to drive both Recto cabs at the same time bliss. Why did I wait so long to change the speakers back? When I tried the Roadster before with the V30 it just did not sound that spectacular. Now that has all changed. I am beginning to sound like a politician, flipping between EV and V30, I can change my opinion if one does sound better than the other.

I am to assume the Roadster has finally settled, and now with broken in V30 it sounds incredible. Too bad the Mark V just sounds terrible with the V30 cabs. It is not all that bad with the EV in the smaller cabinet. Still need something different :roll: At least the EV in the combo and extension cab sound really great.

 

[TRENCHLORD]

Another great cab that rarely gets mentioned is the traditional-size mesa 412 with mc90 speakers.
My friend swapped-in all c90 in his stiletto-slant because he found the v30 just too "middy". I was very impressed at the increased range the c90 gave the smaller cab. I'm guessing the c90 in the OS would be very very scooped, but in the small slants they're sooo tight and crunchy with just enough mids IMO.

 

[bandit2013]

What puzzles me is why I did not like the V30 speaker from the beginning. Sure the cab was 15 years old, but the speakers were never broken in due to lack of use. Not only do speakers go though a break in period, so do amps (typically Electrolytic power and filter caps will be at their peak values and will usually change over time due to temperature to a nominal value which will allow for a change in tone to some degree). Since I got the Mark IV, that too was barely used but more so than the cabinet. I injured my left hand severely which basically ended my playing for at least 8 years. I did get back into it in 2012 when I bought the Mark V. I wanted change, something different. The RA100 was already used and abused by the time I adopted it. The Roadster on the other hand was new. I believe I have used it enough to consider it broken in since it is not as muddy as it first was. So much for the EV speaker since I now favor the V30 with both the RA100 and Roadster. Also have noticed a huge tone change of the Mark V, it is not as ear piercing as it was out of the box so I can now tolerate it thought the V30 cab (still on the bright side), also it is not in the same form as it was when I bought it, converted it to a combo.

I really pushed the bass (maxed out) in the Roadster CH4, dropped the treble and mids and could not get the old V30 speakers to flub out, no more horn with muting any where on the low E string. It was such an easy thing to do with the Mark IV (sold it a few months ago). I have learned my lesson the hard way but in the end I am finally happy with everything thus far.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Some of it may be as simple as a change in settings.

I've spent a long time disliking modern mode (12 years to be exact). Too scooped, too much low end. To compensate I'd run the mids higher and bass low, which would give me a honky response. Typically, I'd always use vintage mode unless I was at home and bored.

My 2ch Recto is a bit different (rev F). It lacks the low end response of a modern Recto so I can get more aggressive with the bass knob (I run it at 3:00) and I don't need to fight the scooped sound so I can relax the mids and not get the honk (mids are around 9:30). I still prefer Vintage, but at least on this amp Modern mode is useful.

Recently, I spent 2 days trying to dial in my Roadster on modern to sound like my Rev F. Things started to come together when I stopped messing with the mids and bass and focused on the treble. Up until now I never realized how powerful the treble knob is. I'd be adjusting it in one hour intervals not realizing the changes possible going from 12:00 to 12:10 to 12:20 to 12:30 and so on. Once I started focusing on these micro adjustments I found this sweet spot just past 12:00 I never knew existed.

Currently, I'm running:
G: 10:30
T: somewhere between 12:00 and 12:30
M: 8:30
B: 1:00
P: 10:30

On modern mode. No flub, no honk, and far more balanced sounding than my old settings despite running the bass much higher and mids much lower.

 

[siggy14]

Some of it may be as simple as a change in settings.

I've spent a long time disliking modern mode (12 years to be exact). Too scooped, too much low end. To compensate I'd run the mids higher and bass low, which would give me a honky response. Typically, I'd always use vintage mode unless I was at home and bored.

My 2ch Recto is a bit different (rev F). It lacks the low end response of a modern Recto so I can get more aggressive with the bass knob (I run it at 3:00) and I don't need to fight the scooped sound so I can relax the mids and not get the honk (mids are around 9:30). I still prefer Vintage, but at least on this amp Modern mode is useful.

Recently, I spent 2 days trying to dial in my Roadster on modern to sound like my Rev F. Things started to come together when I stopped messing with the mids and bass and focused on the treble. Up until now I never realized how powerful the treble knob is. I'd be adjusting it in one hour intervals not realizing the changes possible going from 12:00 to 12:10 to 12:20 to 12:30 and so on. Once I started focusing on these micro adjustments I found this sweet spot just past 12:00 I never knew existed.

Currently, I'm running:
G: 10:30
T: somewhere between 12:00 and 12:30
M: 8:30
B: 1:00
P: 10:30

On modern mode. No flub, no honk, and far more balanced sounding than my old settings despite running the bass much higher and mids much lower.

I know on my Roadking (oringial, not a RKII) if i want to get really close to my 2 channel recto's I use channel 3 on the road king in modern, not sure if it is the same on the Roadster, when I pick mine back up tomorrow I will try to check it out before the guy coming by to buy gets here.

 

[bandit2013]

The Roadster has gobs of low end punch in CH4. Probably my most favorite channel in modern mode. With the V30's I found that dialing out the treble sounds better and use the mid to adjust the top end. Does not seem to matter much what I do with the bass, but too much will fill the room and vibrate the house. The EV, quite a different sound. Need to push the mids a bit, roll off the bass a tad. Still the palm muting playing seems to be a bit dark where as the V30 has a good dry chug to it. Ring out of a power chord sounds better through the EV but yet similar in sound to the V30. Before I remove the V30's and put them back in the smaller cab I will do the EV/V30 trial just for kicks. The EV do not sound good in the smaller cab for some odd reason.

 

[bandit2013]

I boxed up the EV black label speakers for future use. If I get around to getting another Mesa Cab I will reuse them in the old Recto cab so I can pair it with the Mark V.

After experimenting for a while with the three cabinets I have. I have finally come to the conclusion that the new OS Recto Slant 412 Cab sounds the best overall. I also decided to restore the 15 yr old 412 back as close as possible to its original format. With the original V30s installed and a few modifications to the cabinet (had to chase down the root cause of vibrations that sounded like splintered wood vibrating) it sounds almost as good as the new one. Just for kicks, I installed the original Celestion Elite 16 ohm 75W (35oz magnet type) speakers in the Egnator cabinet. I had to hear it for the first time with the 16ohm tap on the OT of the Roadster. It actually sounds good. However, not a cab I would use with the head on top if the casters were in place since the head almost weighs as much as the cabinet with the original speakers in it and will become top heavy (the Egnator cab is a fraction of the weight of the OS Mesa cab, I can actually pick the entire Egnator cab up off the ground with ease, not so with the Mesa cab). I will have to look up in the manual a safe miss-match hook up for both 16ohm and 8 ohm cab just to hear how that will sound. Having two OS Mesa cabs loaded with V30 and running a full stack ( cabs side by side and not one on top of the other) is a joy to behold. Perhaps that was one of the deciding factors to restore the old Mesa 412 cab.

 

[bandit2013]

The Roadster definitely sounds better thought the V30 loaded Recto Cab. I believe they are a perfect match for the amp. I am not disappointed that I restored the cabinet. Last night while playing through the RA100 with SED EL34 on board I was getting lost in the harmonic overtones I thought of a conversation I had with a friend at work regarding which amp will dish out that early ACDC character. I said either RA100 or Roadster can serve it up quite well. There sat the Roadster sitting next to the RA100 waiting to be powered up. Had to prove my comments and sure enough I was able to get the same quality of pushed EL34 RA100 out of the Roadster with the stock 6L6GC tubes (actually the amp is loaded with stock 12AX7 too). It was quite easy to dial in, just drop the treble and bump up the mids using CH4 modern mode. For the RA100 Lo voice, increase the treble and raise the presence on the Roadster. Even CH3 set to tube rectifier did a great job too. I am loving the Roadster even more as the V30 loaded cab is definitely supporting the versatility of the Roadster more than I could imagine. That did not seem possible with the EV in the same cab. I did try the Roadster with EL34 a few days earlier but that did not impress me very much. I get better performance from 6L6 in the Roadster. It is the converse for the RA100, it may sound good with 6L6 but better with EL34. It was hard to believe my ears that I was able to mirror the RA100 character with the Roadster. Now that I have that out of the way, I feel I must have more! Now thinking about adding a Stiletto Deuce Stage II to my arsenal of amps but I probably do not considering the range of possible tone I can get from the Roadster. If there was one amp I would be willing to give up it would be the Mark V which does not get much use since the RA100 and Roadster entered the room.

 

[afu]

....regarding which amp will dish out that early ACDC character.

When Angus was using a Mark series amp on the DVD for the 1991 show, he had a frowning 5 band EQ. Aside from being a bit hotter, it still sounded like Angus. I looked up pictures of his amps from the Razor's Edge tour while I was watching and listening.

With Rectos, Modern has an increased midrange compared to Vintage; a person has to dip the mids to 9:00 to be where Vintage is at when set to Noon.

 

[bandit2013]

I can dial it in with the Roadster to some extent as well as get the same tone to match that of the RA100. It all depends on what guitar I am using. The RA100 and the Roadster are two of my favorites that I have ever owned. The Mark V can be loads of fun but I enjoy the other two a bit more. I have been toying around with the tone controls, boosting mid and dropping the treble. The presence can be used to get back the edge. It is quite interesting how versatile the Roadster is. I am definitely thinking on adding a stiletto deuce even if it does not get you the modern metal sound which is where my roots began with guitar. I am actually going backwards and focusing on music from 60s and 70s (excluding disco :evil: I think that era killed stixx). Most of the bands that I listen too avoided that stuff (at least I believe so anyway).

 

[afu]

I can dial it in with the Roadster to some extent as well as get the same tone to match that of the RA100. It all depends on what guitar I am using. The RA100 and the Roadster are two of my favorites that I have ever owned. The Mark V can be loads of fun but I enjoy the other two a bit more. I have been toying around with the tone controls, boosting mid and dropping the treble. The presence can be used to get back the edge. It is quite interesting how versatile the Roadster is. I am definitely thinking on adding a stiletto deuce even if it does not get you the modern metal sound which is where my roots began with guitar. I am actually going backwards and focusing on music from 60s and 70s (excluding disco :evil: I think that era killed stixx). Most of the bands that I listen too avoided that stuff (at least I believe so anyway).

I'm in the same boat, style-wise. I used to just play the old stuff with a "modern" sound. Now, I'm a little excited that Raw, tube rec, and some fiddling can get me a Led Zep 1, Supro sound and the other settings come forward in time (more or less) from that, except Pushed; that's Day Tripper territory.

I am really considering getting a Roadster and 2x12 when some back pay comes in. I like my DR, but the extra options would be used a lot, since my palette has expanded . I'm eyeballing an OR15, too, but that's another topic.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I did the same thing for a long time (old school with modern tone). What I did for a long time was leave the gain (vintage/red cloned orange) around or just a little past 12:00 and clean it up a bit by rolling down my guitar's volume/tone knobs.

When I picked up a Roadster I fell in love with Tweed mode (I suspect it's similar to Pushed but I don't know for sure as I've never played a 3 channel), but I had a hard time finding a middle ground between Tweed and Modern high gain. I tried raw (meh), running a second vintage channel with the gain low (felt like a weak version of the higher gain channel) and modern. I ultimately settled on Modern with the gain around 10:00. It got the job done but I wasn't very excited about it.

Lately I've been dropping the amps gain (vintage, ~10:30). In the past I struggled with this because it seemed to lack a little power. The trick for me was lowering the mids. I struggled with this idea of lowering the mids for a long time because a abhor 80s scooped mid tones, but when I finally did it and learned how to re-EQ around it the results were clearer/less cloudy, less boxy, less stiff, and the amp felt better to play through. It also brought the treble forward in a really pleasing way, which made the amp feel more open.

I think the trick is the gain... As you increase it it exaggerates the top and bottom end, hence dialling the mids in high and the bass low. With the gain lower I can do the opposite, run the bass quite high and the mids low.

With this in mind a little over a month ago I stopped using ch 4/Modern and I started using Raw for my intermediate tone (gain - 10:30). Raw always sounded boxy and congested until I dropped the mids on it. Now it sounds thick and kind of Recto-meets-Plexi.

I've also started using OD pedals after years disliking them. Again, I think it's the mids... Stacking a boxy mid pedal into a boxy mid high gain channel sounded honky, congested and weak. Now they sit much better, compliment the overall sound and are a good way to push my gain back up now that I'm running it lower.

 

[bandit2013]

The Roadster is quite an interesting amp in respects to the variations obtainable with tweaking the settings. I have been relearning how to dial in the amp since I changed speakers. That on itself was an improvement on response I can get with the guitar and the amp.

Yes, CH4 vintage and raw seem to suffer a bit but I have been able to manage something usable. I may try the V1, V2 swap to Mullard CV4004 (similar to Tung Sol 12AX7 but a bit different). I will also revisit the settings guide in the manual just for fun.

As for the Vintage stuff, I have been using the RA100 but now that seems a bit too high gain for the character I am after. Yeah, the multi-soak can help a bit. I basically bought the Roadster to replace the Mark V (which it did, well the place the V head took is now occupied by the Roadster). I may get another cab next year, depends on how I like or dislike the Stiletto Deuce. I can always juggle the cabs and what not. I need to explore the raw and vintage modes in CH3 as I seem to spend most of my time on modern (CH3 or CH4). There is more to this amp especially with the rectifier and 50W power setting, not to forget the spongy. The change in character is not as noticeable with the V30 as it was with the EV. Still, not much of a change regardless.

 

[screamingdaisy]

There is more to this amp especially with the rectifier and 50W power setting, not to forget the spongy. The change in character is not as noticeable with the V30 as it was with the EV. Still, not much of a change regardless.

I use mine in spongy/50w/tube rectifier. The big things for me is:

1) spongy induces a slight harmonic swirl... which is more noticeable when its gone then when it's present if that makes sense. Basically, once you're used to it you don't really notice it, but switching to full power sounds more bland and clinical with it's absence,

2) I like bounce I get with a tube rectifier, particularly on cleans and lead,

3) 50w mode with spongy/tube drops the output to a little over 30w (vs about 65w in 100w mode). This allows me to get the master output up to 11:00 or higher without hitting earth shattering volumes, and IMO getting the MV above 11:00 is critical to getting the Recto to fire on all 8 cylinders tonally, and

4) 50w mode also de-emphasises the low end and brings the mids forward slightly. I like it, but others may hate it. I do compensate by bringing up the bass slightly but it's still not the same as running in 100w.

 

[afu]

For Raw, I pull the Treble up between 1 and 2 o'clock and drop the bass a bit. I find that frees the mids up a little from the bass and still sounds clear with the treble up. Since the NFB is active but not connected to the pot, the highs are reduced (like Vintage with Presence off). The Presence pot works like Modern does to eliminate above 1.6 kHz or 2.4 kHz, depending on channel, and I use it to reduce shrillness if I want more high mids/treble.