Thoughts on the Mesa "Boogie"

[Ronco]

The name "Boogie" was coined by the fabulous Carlos Santana who upon playing and hearing this screaming little amp with endless sustain was quoted to have said "Wow ! This thing really Boogies !" Hence the "name"

That said, when we really look at this Mesa legend what we see is in reality a Fender Twin on steroids with roof blowing gain without tremolo and at best a mediocre reverb.

I own a mint MkII C ( not the over rated in my opinion $1000 mod C+) and offer the following comments coming from a guy who is NOT a talented lead guitar player but an "OK" rhythm guy

1. Its a great amp !!!!
2. excellent really "clean" rhythm sound,,, add in an effects box and the MKII C original is an azz kicker.
3 With 2...12 inch speakers ( 4 ohms ) plugged in ( I plug into my two speaker Fender twin) its a different and spectacular amp ( single 12 doesn't make it).
4. as a "lead " amp ( I'm not even close to being a good "lead" guitar player) its a screamer having heard lead guys play it.

I think the "thing" with this amp is a lot of guys think that this now legendary amp will make them great players when in reality they are really lame lead guitar players .... kinda like a golfer that thinks buying pro caliber clubs will make them great golfers... don't Bogart that joint my friend...

Bottom line here... if you are an excellent lead player The Mesa Boogie MKII C or C+ this is the box for you no matter what the price .....otherwise for mere mortal rhythm guys like me this amp is the ballz to anyone thats lucky enough to own one

 

[Authorized Boogie]

A Twin? Where are you getting your information from??? :shock:

 

[Ronco]

What are you talking about ? My Fender Twin has 2 12 inch speakers wired in parallel which presents a 4 ohm load to any amp its plugged in to..... I remove the single 12 inch 8 ohm standard MK II C speaker from the Boogie and plug in the Fender Twin speakers into the 4 ohm jack of the boogie. What I've said is that the 2 12 inch speakers make my My MKII C ( not C+) sound INCREDIBLE !!! even the MKII C reverb sounds better.... Bottom line here is that my argument is that unless you're a really talented LEAD player, the $1000 conversion to C+ is really not worth it. As a rhythm player, I think that running a standard MK II C using two 12 inch speakers is as good as it gets,,,, If Mr Mike B of Mesa ( known on this thread as "Boogiebabbies" would care to comment I'm sure all here would be interested. I sure would be

 

[JCB1980]

You sound big mad for no reason. And you sound wrong about a lot in this thread and the other "I hate C+" thread you have on here.

1. Boogiebabies is not Mike B. Mike B. Is not Boogiebabies.
2. The upgrade does not cost $1,000. It cost less than half that.
3. Boogies aren't based on a Twin.
4. A Mark of any type is known to highlight poor playing, not make you sound better than you are.
5. The upgrade addressed much more than just adding gain.
6. No one really hates on a IIC, they just see that the C+ was an all around better amp, ie. better clean, better rhythm, better lead amp.
7. How many C+ amps have you personally played to come to the conclusion that it is overhyped?

 

[Authorized Boogie]

What are you talking about ? My Fender Twin has 2 12 inch speakers wired in parallel which presents a 4 ohm load to any amp its plugged in to..... I remove the single 12 inch 8 ohm standard MK II C speaker from the Boogie and plug in the Fender Twin speakers into the 4 ohm jack of the boogie. What I've said is that the 2 12 inch speakers make my My MKII C ( not C+) sound INCREDIBLE !!! even the MKII C reverb sounds better.... Bottom line here is that my argument is that unless you're a really talented LEAD player, the $1000 conversion to C+ is really not worth it. As a rhythm player, I think that running a standard MK II C using two 12 inch speakers is as good as it gets,,,, If Mr Mike B of Mesa ( known on this thread as "Boogiebabbies" would care to comment I'm sure all here would be interested. I sure would be

Mike B is NOT Boogiebabies! I've shown him quite a few threads to respond to, but there is simply too much misinformation on the forum to address that he doesn't even know where to begin.

 

[Ronco]

Whoever "boogiebabies" is, he knows what he's talking about...excellent poster.......talked to Mike B years ago and agree with everyone that he's a great guy ! Anyone here know if he's still around at Mesa ? or still doing his own thing ?

Anyway, a few comments :
I am not "bashing" the MK II C+ as being over rated. I am merely saying that the straight MK IIC is a great amp and not an "inferior" amp as many C+ zealots often say which I find unfair and insulting . I have talked to and heard a number professional MK IIC+ players ( some really great players) and yes they love the II C+. especially the "metal heads"

I'm an electrical engineer and not a pro guitar player by any means. I play out with 3 other guys and a great little gal singer/ guitar player/music teacher in a 'cover band" .....lotta fun ( and free drinks in the "biker bars" we play at) Yippeeee !

As to my comment that a II C+ is all about "gain" that's almost true.
Actually a C+ output transformer is different also.

Pretty much ( for those of you that know anything about vacuum tube amps) the main change to a C+ is that the preamp signal in a straight II C was picked off the cathode of the second triode (V1B) and sent to the effects loop and the next amp stage. In "tube speak" this is called a "cathode follower" configuration whose chief characteristics are excellent noise rejection but NO GAIN. The C+ mod changed the routing such that this cathode signal was now taken of the tube's plate circuit which resulted in an enormous jump in "gain" ( amplification) before being sent to the inverter stage which creates two 180 degrees out of phase signals to drive the 6L6 power driver monster tubes.

The other C+ difference is a really excellent output transformer which are now almost impossible ( and expensive) to get which is why Mesa never re-issued a MK IIC+ re release. New designs in the ensuing models got around this problem

other comments... Tube amps and solid state amps are 2 totally different animals... The really main and subtle difference in tone is that solid state devices produce "odd harmonics" while tubes create "even harmonics" which to the human ear is a lot more pleasant according to most listeners. Also solid state amps are waaaaay lighter in weight ( don't need huge output transformer) while the great tube amps weigh a TON....Why ? Because the huge weight is a result of using a MASSIVE output transformer with ( due to its number of winding's, size and weight are necessary to create a huge Inductance ( L) and enough "Inductive reactance"
Formula is XL ( inductive reactance) = 2 Pi F L Where F is the frequency and L is the value of inductance in "Henry's" ( how inductance is measured) ... So we can see that the bigger the "L" the better the output at guitar relatively low pickup frequencies. As any Boogie owner knows the transformer in their amp is HUGE and very HEAVY.

Anyway, for those of you interested , there a series of excellent how guitar amps work on YouTube....in essence ALL guitar amps with reverb, tremolo, high gain are very similar with the main differences being the number of gain stages, quality of components and design of their 'tone stacks" ( capacitors and resistor selections that determine tonal qualities) in the pre amp stages.
So I stand by my comment that a "Boogie" is a Fender Twin on steroids using better components custom tone stacks , Massive output xformer and the four tube "tetrode" power tube configuration found in the twin..
Any Boogie MK II is a superb amp ! nuff said

 

[Markedman]

:shock: Um, dude, you're arguing with MESA/Boogie, yes, that MESA/Boogie, the company that makes MESA/Boogie amps. It's the equivalent of arguing with god over clouds & sunshine. This is one battle you cannot win on this, "The Boogie Board", it can't happen here. Wrong place, try here instead - The Gear Page.

 

[woodbutcher65]

I just want to make note of the fact that speaker and cabinet selection makes a huge impact on tone, always.

The tonal difference between a Mark IIA, Mark IIB, Mark IIC, Mark IIC+, Mark IIC++, Mark III black dot, Mark III black stripe, Mark III blue stripe, Mark III purple stripe, Mark III green stripe, and Mark III red stripe are ALL minor when compared to the tonal change made when you compare any of those amps set up as a combo with an EV speaker to plugging that same amp into a Marshall 1960A 4x12 cabinet loaded with vintage Celestion G12M25 Greenbacks. Or any of literally hundreds to thousands of other possible speaker and cabinet choices.

If you want to change your tone, change your speakers.

As soon as I got 4x12s and started trying them out with every amp I owned, it was literally like I'd doubled the size of my amp collection. I got a whole new set of tones to play with. Every different sounding cabinet adds just that many more tones to my inventory.

 

[Markedman]

Here's a recent (11/27/2019) video of my Mark IIC++ at the lowest volume, 0.0 on the master volume. If you like Metallica & Pantera, this amp is good for that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42cYArBVdzc