Thiele with Vintage 30?
- Thread starter Seanboy
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If i recall correctly the thiele cab was designed specifically for the EV12L. Although there's no physical reason why you couldn't use any other speaker - so go for it! If you don't like it you can always change it out.
dodger916
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Correct on all counts.sduck said:
chipaudette
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I've got a IIC+ open-backed combo with an EVM12L. I also have a Mesa Thiele that came with an EVM12L. A couple years ago (when the IIC+ was fairly new to me), I tried a few different speakers in the combo and in the Thiele, including a V30. I agree that the EVM and the V30 sound VERY different.
In the end, I decided that the best sound (to me) was the EVM12L in the open-backed combo. IMO, it felt the most organic and worked the best with the widest array of styles. So that's what I play exclusively now.
For a while, when I was playing heavier stuff, I would use Thiele along with the open-backed combo. When using the Thiele with the combo, I liked the V30 in the Thiele the best. It was good for when I was getting heavy, but I felt that the two speakers together didn't feel right for all the other styles that I like to play.
Finally, during my trials, I did do a little playing with the Thiele by itself. When I played it by itself, I liked the Thiele best with the EVM. But, overall, I felt that the closed back cab made the sound from the amp feel very constrained...that it prevented the "bloom" (omnidirectional room echo?) that I feel with open-backed cabs. You do get some extra low-end thump for palm mutes, which is why I did like it when playing heavy...I just feel that the penalties on tone (for me) outweigh the benefits.
Switching to the specific comparison of V30 vs EVM, the problem with the V30 by itself is that, with my fingers and with my guitar and with my particular amp, I didn't think that the lead tone sounded right. I'm talking lead tone for solos, not lead tone for riffage.
To my ears, the prominent upper mids of the EVM bring out the best part of the focused gain of the Mark lead tone during single-note work. Beauty. The V30 is a bit more recessed in the upper mids, which is like asking a lady with a beautiful face to cover it up with a mask. What's the point?!?
When I put the V30 in the Thiele to work in combination with the open-backed combo, I liked the V30 because its recessed upper mids meant that I would only hear the upper mids from the EVM in the combo. In other words, it's not so much that I liked the V30, it's that I liked the fact that its recessed upper-mids (in effect) made the Thiele part of my sound quieter for lead work...which meant that my solo notes were most present from EVM in the combo...which mean that it had the "bloom" that I like. When, I'd transition back to deep riffage, the response of the Thiele + V30 was stronger, so it was there to fortify my sound with its closed-back thump. Does that make any sense?
But you probably weren't asking for all this subjective stuff. The short answer is that, yes, the V30 fits in Thiele. You just might decide that you don't like it as well as the EVM.
Chip
In the end, I decided that the best sound (to me) was the EVM12L in the open-backed combo. IMO, it felt the most organic and worked the best with the widest array of styles. So that's what I play exclusively now.
For a while, when I was playing heavier stuff, I would use Thiele along with the open-backed combo. When using the Thiele with the combo, I liked the V30 in the Thiele the best. It was good for when I was getting heavy, but I felt that the two speakers together didn't feel right for all the other styles that I like to play.
Finally, during my trials, I did do a little playing with the Thiele by itself. When I played it by itself, I liked the Thiele best with the EVM. But, overall, I felt that the closed back cab made the sound from the amp feel very constrained...that it prevented the "bloom" (omnidirectional room echo?) that I feel with open-backed cabs. You do get some extra low-end thump for palm mutes, which is why I did like it when playing heavy...I just feel that the penalties on tone (for me) outweigh the benefits.
Switching to the specific comparison of V30 vs EVM, the problem with the V30 by itself is that, with my fingers and with my guitar and with my particular amp, I didn't think that the lead tone sounded right. I'm talking lead tone for solos, not lead tone for riffage.
To my ears, the prominent upper mids of the EVM bring out the best part of the focused gain of the Mark lead tone during single-note work. Beauty. The V30 is a bit more recessed in the upper mids, which is like asking a lady with a beautiful face to cover it up with a mask. What's the point?!?
When I put the V30 in the Thiele to work in combination with the open-backed combo, I liked the V30 because its recessed upper mids meant that I would only hear the upper mids from the EVM in the combo. In other words, it's not so much that I liked the V30, it's that I liked the fact that its recessed upper-mids (in effect) made the Thiele part of my sound quieter for lead work...which meant that my solo notes were most present from EVM in the combo...which mean that it had the "bloom" that I like. When, I'd transition back to deep riffage, the response of the Thiele + V30 was stronger, so it was there to fortify my sound with its closed-back thump. Does that make any sense?
But you probably weren't asking for all this subjective stuff. The short answer is that, yes, the V30 fits in Thiele. You just might decide that you don't like it as well as the EVM.
Chip
tony777
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I just put a V30 in my thiele today, though I'm a little biased and loving the V30 in my 4x12, I absolutely love it. When mic'ed up ready for recording it sounds just as good as my 4x12. I guess that will be like that live as well, though the big sound of a 4x12 will not be quite present, but the audience won't notice. My thiele came originally with the C90, I switched to the EVM, and now to V30. The V30 is absolutely the winner, to me both C90 and EVM sounds harsh in comparison to the V30. Subjective of course, it depends what you like though.
CrunchBerries
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Be careful with the V30 in the thiele, as speakers in general are not all designed to handle the air interactions of a ported design; especially one not specifically designed for that speaker. The port will usually have an effect in the low frequencies, which could cause the speaker to exceed its excursion limits (X-max / X-mech). The saving grace of most guitar speakers is that they do have some doping around the rim to stiffen up their low end response, so it definitely helps prevent over-excursion. Also the thiele design (which is a regular ported design based around the TS parameters of the EV), produces some good airflow which helps the speaker coil keep cool.
The only time this would be a problem is if you constantly use this speaker configuration at gig volumes. But again, I have seen people use V30's in ported cabs without any issues.
A good rule of thumb: If you hear some flabbyness or if you can actually see the speaker "oomph" back and forth, this is not good operation for a guitar speaker. The speaker should appear to be still with maybe slight movements when palm muting in the low end. But that is for any ported design really.
If you stick the EV in there, you don't have to worry about any of those symptoms, as its TS parameters allow this speaker to actually move much more than a regular guitar speaker.
The only time this would be a problem is if you constantly use this speaker configuration at gig volumes. But again, I have seen people use V30's in ported cabs without any issues.
A good rule of thumb: If you hear some flabbyness or if you can actually see the speaker "oomph" back and forth, this is not good operation for a guitar speaker. The speaker should appear to be still with maybe slight movements when palm muting in the low end. But that is for any ported design really.
If you stick the EV in there, you don't have to worry about any of those symptoms, as its TS parameters allow this speaker to actually move much more than a regular guitar speaker.
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When I bought my DC-3 combo (Vintage 30) and EVM12L Thiele the seller said he preferred using the Vintage 30 in the Thiele and the EVM12L in the combo. I never tried it.
jmontgomery
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I ordered my Thiele with Mesas Fillmore 75 installed. It sounds great!
tony777
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I had to quote myself on this one. I did some recordings and everytime I mic up I'm looking for the sweet spot. I don't know why I haven't tried this before, but I ended up with the microphone 6 cm away from the speaker grille, and it sounded a lot better to my ears. My idea was to get the full harmonic content as you get when you play and usually are standing away from the speakers. A meter or two. (hope you understand what I mean)tony777 said:
Anyway, I set up my thiele with Vintage 30, a combo with C90 and a combo with EVM12L. And did the comarison. The EVM sounded so much more natural to what I hear when I play. Though I love playing through my 4x12 Recto with V30's There has always been something that bugs me when I mic it up and starts recording.
end of story, I put back the EVM in my thiele and for the time beeing that sounds about the right thing to do. I don't know yet if I prefer the combo or the thiele with EVM, they both sound almost the same both you'll get more bottom in the thiele, but a combo is more open and the bottom end can easily be compensated at EQing in the mix, or dial in the amp.
I had three microphones, SM57, Sennheiser 906, and a SMPro condenser, The 906 was the one I used.
Well......That's what I had to tell you this time, have a nice weekend.
