Thiele VS Recto 1x12

[primal]

Currently I am running a Recto 1x12 with my Mark IV.

I of course always have to be screwing with something, so I was wondering about changing the Recto 1x12 for a Thiele and wondered if anyone could tell me the differences tonally between the two cabs.

What made me think about this was that I tried my Mark IV through my Electra Dyne combo cab, and preferred the tone over the Recto 1x12.

I know I can get the Thiele with the C90. Plus it is my understanding (Maybe incorrectly) that the Thiele may sound a bit more full and have a "bigger" bass response.

Any opinions?

 

[cradleofflames]

Don't bother with C90s get an older one with an EV; it's an Electro-Voice designed enclosure after all.

You can expect more tight lows and clearer brighter highs.

You could also shop around and get a metal grill 2x12. Then you have the Thiele on the bottom and an open back on top. This will tighten and enhance your low end compared to a open back cab while smoothing out your highs compared to a closed back cab which can be shrill. Possible drawback is they usually don't have EVs and that will make best advantage of the enclosure. When you find them with EVs they're much more expensive.

For a shameless plug: should you pick up one with C90s I have a pair of 16 ohm EVM12L Classics for sale; wired in parallel they're perfect for your Boogie's 8 ohm tap.

That's the reason I had them: 2x12 off the 8 ohm tap of the Simul 395 I had.

 

[JOEY B.]

Don't bother with C90s get an older one with an EV; it's an Electro-Voice designed enclosure after all.

You can expect more tight lows and clearer brighter highs.

You could also shop around and get a metal grill 2x12. Then you have the Thiele on the bottom and an open back on top.

The bottom part of a "halfback" 2x12 is in NO way a thiele enclosure. It is vented, but not ported.

 

[Fronzil]

ok can someone explain to me the exact design of the thiele cab? or an image? the 2 cabs i hear about the most are the recto's with v30s and the thiele with ev or sometime blackshadow

 

[dodger916]

ok can someone explain to me the exact design of the thiele cab? or an image? the 2 cabs i hear about the most are the recto's with v30s and the thiele with ev or sometime blackshadow

Here are the plans for an EVM 12-L Thiele:http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/Builders Plans/TL806 Builders Plans.pdf
It has primarily to do with the volume and shape of the cab and venting.

 

[cradleofflames]

Don't bother with C90s get an older one with an EV; it's an Electro-Voice designed enclosure after all.

You can expect more tight lows and clearer brighter highs.

You could also shop around and get a metal grill 2x12. Then you have the Thiele on the bottom and an open back on top.

The bottom part of a "halfback" 2x12 is in NO way a thiele enclosure. It is vented, but not ported.

I was always told otherwise but I've never seen the original information for one. Not to mention judging by our post counts it's easy to tell who's probably right...

This is a thiele:
http://cgi.ebay.com/THIELE-THEILE-EVM12L-GUITAR-CAB_W0QQitemZ280401046914QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4149346d82&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

Black Shadow can mean either C90 or EVM12L since they're both labeled as such. Each of the black shadows are labeled both wattage and manufacturer. ie: Celestion Ipswich, England 90 watts; ElectroVoice 200 watts.

C90s are a love it or hate it thing. In a thiele or most any closed back I don't believe they're the right choice but in an openback cab with a Mark series amp they can be great.

 

[Restless Rocks]

The "sound" of the theile will remind you a lot of a 4x12 that got shrunk to a 1x12 size. Because it has extended low and high response it will seem to have a naturally "scooped" tone. As you know the 1x12 Recto has a very focused mid range and the V30 usually sounds best in a sealed box. Now for this same reason I've found that when I use my theile by itself in a live situation it tends to get lost in the mix much easier and needs to be pushed hard to "sound" loud enough next to drums and bass. The theile is absolutely the perfect answer to sit a 1x12 open back on which will add the mids making for (IMO) a killer tone. It is the **** in the studio by itself. Two theiles stacked will shake some serious booty and will get your chugga thing going big time if that's what your looking for . I also have a 2x12 metal grill half back EV loaded cab which I have A/B'd next to the combo/theile (both EV). The metal grill is more mid focused ( I have A/B'd just the bottom speaker next to the theile) and is the real deal for the lead solo sound, it will cut thru anything. I actually prefer the combo/theile combination and that's what I prefer to use on stage these days because it has all the full range of the metal grill but with extended lows and is alot easier to carry around.

 

[Fronzil]

how would 2 thieles sound compared to my mesa 2x12? also how would 2 mesa 2x12 sound compared to a mesa 4x12...just curious how the sound changes when say a 4x12 cab is broken into two 2x12s.

 

[Restless Rocks]

Swweeeet!!!!!! 8)

 

[Fronzil]

The "sound" of the theile will remind you a lot of a 4x12 that got shrunk to a 1x12 size. Because it has extended low and high response it will seem to have a naturally "scooped" tone. As you know the 1x12 Recto has a very focused mid range and the V30 usually sounds best in a sealed box. Now for this same reason I've found that when I use my theile by itself in a live situation it tends to get lost in the mix much easier and needs to be pushed hard to "sound" loud enough next to drums and bass. The theile is absolutely the perfect answer to sit a 1x12 open back on which will add the mids making for (IMO) a killer tone. It is the sh!t in the studio by itself. Two theiles stacked will shake some serious booty and will get your chugga thing going big time if that's what your looking for . I also have a 2x12 metal grill half back EV loaded cab which I have A/B'd next to the combo/theile (both EV). The metal grill is more mid focused ( I have A/B'd just the bottom speaker next to the theile) and is the real deal for the lead solo sound, it will cut thru anything. I actually prefer the combo/theile combination and that's what I prefer to use on stage these days because it has all the full range of the metal grill but with extended lows and is alot easier to carry around.

+1
same here combo & thiele
or
head with a 1x12 & theile
Here's the "dynamic duo" - two of the above cab setups!

so if you run a 2x12 setup, you run two 1x12 thieles? im just curious how that would sound compared to my recto 2x12, or even how one 1x12 thiele would sound compared to my 2x12 recto

 

[edward]

Restless hit the nail on the hean IMHO.

I will add that a thiele cab with an MC90 is not to be scoffed at. Personally, I've never heard one, but EVMs come up used all the time, and the key is to get the cab in your posession and worry about loading the EVM later ...not to mention those who have MC90-Thiele cabs don't do any complaining

Also, the "scooped" sound of the EVM Thiele is not really "scooped" mids as much as extended highs/lows (as Restless had mentioned). I reiterate this because IMHO Thiele cabs are better suited as "complimentary" cabs than stand-aloe cabs ...I just won't run mine alone. But along with the warmth and smooth mids of an MC90 in a combo cab and the two voices together are a tonal marriage made in heaven!

Oh, and one word to Fronzil: envy!

Edward

 

[YellowJacket]

I am going to weigh in on the topic here.

I built a thiele cab this summer off of those EV plans. Rather than build a 1 x 12, I build a 2 x 12 that is basically two 1 x 12s in one box. I put a Celestion v30 in one side and a G12m Heritage in the other. I find the speaker blend really gives an added dimension to the gain tone and covers the weaknesses of each individual speaker and even with my dual running with el-84s courtesy of Yellow Jackets, it still sounds plenty loud. An alternative combination might be a C90 or EV paired with a v30 where the v30 will pump out those cutting high mids. If you are more of a modern tone kind of guy, maybe two v30s or a v30 paired with a G12T-75 will be a better flavour of speaker.

I'd basically describe the sound the way others here have talked about it. The cab thinks it is a 4 x 12 but it is not. Probably closer to a Traditional (marshall) sized one than a Standard Rectocab though. I find it to be a bit mid heavy compared to my Standard Rectocab but it is also much less muddy and tracks hella fast with my Dual. The clarity makes higher gain settings possible than what I would run with my Standard Rectocab. It has a very biting high end and a tight thumpy low. Here is where the difference is though. Clean tone. When you play clean, the port and shelf give super warm and open cleans which sound great, even when running something sterile like a Peavey Rage 158. I have NEVER had a clean like this with a 4 x 12, EVER!

It is probably the heaviest 2 x 12 known to man, but it does the job in spades!! I am a happy camper!

 

[hayward69]

agreed, i'm running 2 1x12 thieles with a EVM and C90 and they sound great.

 

[kdorsey]

Here's another perspective...

The Thiele cabs are spectacular and were originally designed as add-on to the combo and an alternative to a 4x12. The EV in the Thiele cab is stellar. But at gig volumes, I couldn't get control of the bottom end and preferred my 2x12 half-backs. And in the spirit of full disclosure, I also replaced the EV in the bottom with another C90 for an awesome modern sound. And I closed the top. The flub went completely away at volume and projected noticeably better. To improve the bass response, I'd take the casters off and let the cab resonate the stage. 8)

All of this is purely my personal opinion. Not pushing it down anyone's throat. Oh, and post count doesn't necessarily reflect whether someone knows what they're talking about. In Joey's case, it does. :wink:

 

[screamingdaisy]

Thread is from 2009.

 

[kdorsey]

When you're playing 20+ year old gear, this is all good info. 8)