The most British sounding of them all - Which Mesa?

[psihiatros]

Hi my fellow musicians

I have a Mark V and a Recto Reborn and I want to be done with the British sound as well.
What I'm really interested in is:
1) an EL34 glassy clean sound, reminiscent of Hendrix's "The Wind Cries Mary".
2) a modded plexi distortion, reminiscent of Dokken's - "Unchain the night".
3) a modded JCM 800 distortion reminiscent of Zakk Wylde's rythm sound.

If I wanted a Mesa amp for these sounds, which one will get the job done in sound & feel?

1) TC-100
2) Stiletto Deuce stage II
3) Electradine
4) Royal Atlantic

I'm very much interested in a detailed and informative opinion from those who have played these amps.

..or some other manufacturer maybe ?
I'm not interested in a Marshall JVM because i want quality.
From the other hand, I wouldn't like to pay a fortune for a Friedman or Bogner if it isn't necessary.

Thanks in advance,
Chris.

 

[stephen sawall]

2 and 4.
Stage 1 of the Stiletto is more like a Marshall. All these amps are Mesa version of English crunch. They don't really sound like any particular English amp.

None of the Mesa amps are going to cover the list of sounds you want. They can ballpark that stuff.

The Mark V and Rectifier does OK with these type of sounds. I would try to get your list out of your amp first. Might be close enough for what you want.

I don't think any single Marshall can do your list....or any other amp built by anyone. The sounds are pretty different.

You would probably need a JTM, Plexi and JCM800 to really get close. Lots of amps can ballpark this stuff.

 

[silentbob]

I would go with a Stiletto.

The guy isn't a great player, but he gets pretty close to all of those tones in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLkA78GQ3hI

This guy showcases the distorted tones a lot better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoHZw5Gd_EY

If I needed those types of tones more often, I would have a stiletto. Fortunately for me, I already have a Road King.

 

[psihiatros]

Thank you so much silentbob for these videos. The first one was really helpful.
Just something about the sound in the Stilleto, that sounds more organic and true British/EL34 sounding with a mesa twist, that doesn't seem to exist in the other british mesas i.e. royal,tc,electra,trans which seem to have a congested sound.
Think I've made my choice!

Thank you again my friend and take care

 

[RR]

Try this pedal, Marshall in a box.

JTM45, Plexi, JCM800, hot rodded JCM800

Check some of YouTube videos,

But not cheap.

 

[bandit2013]

Since I do not have a Marshal of the ones listed to compare, My choice would go to #1 (TC-100) and #4 (RA-100). The closest thing I got to a Stiletto Deuce Stage II was the Stage I. Had the RA100 at the time and compared them. Stiletto was different and not sure how much difference there is between the Stage 1 and Stage II. I did not keep the Stiletto more than a week and returned it (traded it in for another RA100 since they had one available).


Both Clean channels of the TC series and the RA100 can be driven into clip and you can even push it into the same character as the lo gain (CH2, blue ). Drop the bottom and push the mid and treble. **** does that sound amazing. TC series does have a bit more tightness to the bottom end than the RA.

As for the Plexi lead, I have one of those too. Could not tell the difference with that on the clean channel of the RA100 and the lo gain channel. they sounded the same (using low gain clean setting for the pedal)


However, the TC-100 can definately get into different terriotry if you add a Mesa 5B graphic EQ pedal in the FX loop. What a world of difference that made overall. RA was not too shabby either but the TC just delivered the goods as the bottom end is much tighter and the gain structure of CH2 and CH3 is a bit different.

 

[psihiatros]

Hi guys!
Thanks a lot for the replies so far

Bandit,
how would you compare the TC 100 and the RA100 in terms of sounds and feel?
Which one would you say is more suitable for the sounds I'm looking for?
One of your great informative and in depth long posts here would be much appreciated

 

[bandit2013]

I am short on words these days..... :roll: I am not qualified to answer this one...

This one is not focused, more random, sorry.

That is a tough call to make... Right out of the box the TC-100 delivers. I think for the last tone you are looking for, Zakk Wylde… You may need a GEG in the loop to tune the tone of the TC-100. Something like "Black Label Society -Bleed for me" almost has a Stiletto sound to it pushing an EV speaker. TC does not pair up well with EV speakers but it does sound **** good with the Vertical 212, or even better two Vertical 212 cabs. Hence the reason for the 5BGEQ in the loop, you can dail in something close but I have not tried that. Running the TC-100 with the 5BGEQ is something you must add to your bucket list. "New Religion" perhaps... Not much of a Zakk Wylde follower but his stuff sounds good so far, actually listening to it as I type this. I did listen to the Dokken song, been a while, had to go back to the Zakk Wylde as I much prefer that style of music. If you had an ABY amp switcher to would allow you to blend two amps together, I would opt for the Mark V with KT77 and the Recto with 6L6 or vice versa and blend them together. I only have a Roadster, did not favor that with the 6L6 but the Mark V with KT77 was killer, Gold lion, request for hot bias, Mark V. EL34 seemed weak to me but that could have been my amp. Did not like the Roadster with EL34 type tubes. You can ignore that part.... Not sure what the multiwatt Recto would sound like with EL34. Unfortunately, neither of the two amps have the British circuit but perhaps the Recto would be closer than the Mark V. Some of the recordings I have listened to thus far almost sounds like Zakk is playing through more than one type of amp. Not sure what a blend of Recto and TC would sound like. Suicide Messiah has an interesting tone to it. Recto yet Brit. Perhaps a Stage II Stiletto or Trident would be similar, not sure if a mod would be required. TC-100 out of the box does not quite have that character, again the 5BGEQ would be your friend for tone shaping.

Hendrix, TC-100 clean channel with the gain dimed (normal or drive may do it). No need for the Plexi lead drive pedal as that is the clean channel of the TC series. Plus you have CH2 and CH3 to get even more.

Still thinking on this.... Have you tried running the Recto and Mark V in tandum? If you do not have an isolated ABY pedal it will be noisy but you will get the ideal how the two amps will blend. Once you get a combination of the two amps, the tone changes as each amp will influence the other to some extent.

 

[woodbutcher65]

Do you actually have an objection to buying a Marshall to get a Marshall tone?

It's absolutely no sin to buy another amp and have it not be a Mesa, you know.

I've got my eye on a 2203 from about 1981 that's absolutely dead nuts mint. With equally minty 1960 slant cabinet. Both with road cases and both have never been on the road.

 

[bandit2013]

I would go after a silver jubilee 2555, simple as it is but always thought that one sounded great, also lacks that tacky gold color. I would buy one of those (I think).

 

[psihiatros]

Do you actually have an objection to buying a Marshall to get a Marshall tone?It's absolutely no sin to buy another amp and have it not be a Mesa, you know

Hi there,
I would like something very marshally and different from what I already have but at the same time not completely far away from the ballpark (i.e. the mesa sound) when I'm changing between sounds in my rig.
That's why I want another mesa

 

[psihiatros]

Hi bandit and thanx for the reply

Marshall jubilee doesn't fit the bill, as i want 3 footswitchable sounds.
I need 2 channels at least, IF a pedal can give any one of the 3 sounds i'm looking for but 3 footswitchable channels is the ultimate.
Also, i dont want to mix the recto and the mark, as i want them both to do different jobs.
After seeing som videos of the TC-100, i think that the 1st channel can give me the Hendrix cleans, the way you described it.
The second channel looks like it can give me the modded plexi sound and beyond.
As for the channel 3, well.. After seeing this video from Mesa, i think it qualifies for the Zakk wylde sound:

https://youtu.be/ga_MLmtUWD4

I guess it comes down to Stiletto vs TC-100, meaning that maybe i could save some money buying a Stiletto+a pedal or just go ahead and buy the TC and be done with it.That's what's on my mind..

 

[woodbutcher65]

My solution for adding amps that honestly I can't afford and have no room for was to pick up a modelling amp. I got a Fractal Audio Axe-FX II. It's really an excellent piece of gear and delivers worthy tones if you take your time to tweak them out properly. This gives you the option to even do such things a do a trial run on a model of an amp that you're thinking about buying for real. It's by this means that I discovered that no, I probably don't want an AC30. The AC30 models are no doubt very authentic but it's just not the tone I want. So I haven't bought an AC30.

On the flip side, thanks to the Fractal I know that I want a real Mark IIC+ now. If the Fractal model is that good, the real amp can only be better. Right?

 

[psihiatros]

My solution for adding amps that honestly I can't afford and have no room for was to pick up a modelling amp. I got a Fractal Audio Axe-FX II. It's really an excellent piece of gear and delivers worthy tones if you take your time to tweak them out properly. This gives you the option to even do such things a do a trial run on a model of an amp that you're thinking about buying for real. It's by this means that I discovered that no, I probably don't want an AC30. The AC30 models are no doubt very authentic but it's just not the tone I want. So I haven't bought an AC30.
On the flip side, thanks to the Fractal I know that I want a real Mark IIC+ now. If the Fractal model is that good, the real amp can only be better. Right?

If it left you wanting a real c+ then I guess the fractal wasn't for the best, now was it?
But heah, i know what you mean by modelling and trial and error of real amps. I had the same experience with another unit. But then again, it's better to just go to a guitar shop and play the real amp instead. Much better results.
Either way, I despise digital so.. Yeah.

 

[woodbutcher65]

The Fractal is a great rig but there's something about real hardware and real glowing tubes. I can get tones out of the Fractal that make my eyes cross in ecstasy but I want to try using it as an effects unit in the loop with a real Mark IIC+.

Simulations are great. They're getting better all the time. But hot tubes are still more fun. For reasons that are difficult to explain.

I consider my Fractal to be a gateway drug. I've bought more real tube amps SINCE I bought the Fractal than I had before I bought it.

 

[psihiatros]

So far, it has come down to this:

1) Stiletto Deuce II & pedal
2) RA-100 & pedal
3) TC-100

Opinions & suggestions?

 

[stephen sawall]

I don't think you need a pedal with these amps.
As I have mentioned earlier.... version one of the Stiletto is much more like a Marshall than version two.
Both are good amps.

 

[bandit2013]

You will not need pedals for OD or such to coax any of the amps in the list to perform the tasks. There is one I would suggest that works well with the TC-100, Mesa 5BGEQ used in the FX loop just for tone shaping. Note necessarily required but it will definitely help with fine tuning. Here is some mulling around with the TC-100 and 5BGEQ just for an idea. The Mesa video is way better than I can do at the moment. Also I was running two vertical 212 cabs from the amp. Just note this.... I am no expert at anything, which will be evident once you watch the videos. It may be repetitive since I was just comparing amps and not trying to perform. Sure you can get different results in how you dial in the amp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV-fi9ddAIQ&t=267s

In case you are wondering how the EL34 compares to the 6L6GC, I made this. I was not very creative in what I was playing and it may get a bit boring. Just a tone test, nothing more, just like the other one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Oq--xOANE&t=80s

I also did one pitting the RA100 to the TC-100 which was not terribly good. Not sure what was up there as the TC came off as being muffled in sound. It is generally much brighter and more focused in the tone. I did not realize at the time but discovered it afterward and changed the power tubes. Note that the RA does not have stock tubes. Mix of various preamp tubes and =C= EL34s. Both are running identical cabs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2RHQGT0Hu8&t=247s

 

[elvis]

Either Electradyne or Stiletto, depending on WHICH brit sound you're looking for.

I lean toward stiletto, since it gets plexi and JCM tones really nicely, but Electradyne is also very Brit.