''The Mark 3 thread''

[bartchamdoh]

Here's a quick run down of the evolution of mesa's mark 3 amp.The amp went through five stages until mesa arrived at the final product...a three channel amp that could be set up to footswitch using a single set of EQ controls!Earlier models are hard to balance channels as a good lead tone gives a crap clean channel and vice versa also the crunch channel volume is often not level requiring a R2 volume mod to be needed.The five models became known as the five dot's or stripes as they are identified by a marker pen swipe above the power chord of the same colour,they are none or black stripe,purple,red,blue then green.
The black stripe shares much of the circuitry and components of the 2c/2c+ including the output transformer(on the early no stripes)and has therefore become more valuable for those seeking a Mark 3 model to upgrade to 2c+ specs although at the time it wasn't considerd to be anything special!
Purple stripes had R2 tweaked to have less gain and be more rounded with better levels in relation to the other channels.
Red stripes had the R2 channel tweaked for more gain and the lead channel hot rodded for a hotter lead channel!!! and are now very desirable(R2 had reached it's final development)
Blue stripe more clean and lead shaping with more aggresive pre amp gain.
Green stripe...final clean tweaks for more clean head room and final lead tweaks.Also the simul class models were wired in pentode not triode for more volume.
Please note the green stripe is often confused with blue stripes because the green was a torquoise colour and production dates in the blues and greens over lapped(the blues have a dark blue stripe).
Blues and Greens have the best channel switching capabilities and are generally considerd nthe best IMO lol.

 

[JOEY B.]

The black stripe shares much of the circuitry and components of the 2c/2c+ including the output transformer(on the early no stripes)and has therefore become more valuable for those seeking a Mark 3 model to upgrade to 2c+ specs although at the time it wasn't considerd to be anything special!

It is the power transformer that the early Mark III's have in common with the C+. The output transformers have different part numbers, but are supposedly the same underneath the covers. To squash the rumor, once again, the Mark III CANNOT be upgraded to C+ specs(in its true form) without completely gutting the amp and installing different circuit boards (preamp, power amp, and power supply). The III+ mod involves tweaking the preamp circuit to sound more like the C+, and that is as far as it goes. It will get you in the ballpark, but is not an exact replica. Otherwise you have made a very informative post. If you could get it to "sticky" status, there will be other people post on things like serial # oddities, easy DIY mods, older thread links and such.
8)

 

[Neptical]

All hail the Mark III!

8)

I just got done tweaking my settings a little more on both of my III's, raised all my pups on both my PRS, and right now I'm in all my glory with my tone. I seriously couldn't be any happier.Basically, I'm going after silky smooths with tons of smooth crunch...alas hearing in my head somewheres between Al Dimeola's "Land of the Midnight Sun" ( my favorite ) to BTBAM's tight aggressive rhythm sounds. I think I've come pretty damn close. Back to playing..

~Nep~

 

[Facelift]

After 15 yrs of "playing" I found the Mark III. Truly the best sounding amp Ive ever had. Mind you, I sold a Bogner Fish to get the Mark III. THeres something to say about that!

So, just what IS the most aggressive of all the Mark series? Ive heard some say that its the III. Anyone confirm? Every clip Ive listened to of any of the Mark series, to me, the III is, hands down.

 

[BMcNibbnles]

I haven't played a IIC+, but I've heard numerous clips and I own a Mark III and.... to my ears, the III sounds way more aggressive (and, dare I say .... better.... than the IIC+). But, I personally can't say "for sure" because it wouldn't be fair since I've never played a C+.

 

[cremona]

But, I personally can't say "for sure" because it wouldn't be fair since I've never played a C+.[/quote]

You are right , you can absolutly NOT make eny valid comparison by listning to compressed to hell youtube clips through your pc, or even professionel recordings, and then plug into to your mark 3 and say hey it sounds better.

Even in a proffesionel studio with good acoustics , if you move the recording mic just a cm you get a completly diffrent sound, and the offen use many mics,different mic preamps ,soundcards compressors eq and the varibles are basicly endless.

Hifi people pay insane money,build special listning rooms and hunt down 24 bit masters trying getting as close to the recorded sound and still, the only hear one varible of the above.

Thats why the computer guitar simulators are so populare because you dont have to spend thousinds on recording gear,( the will not get close ither because a analog sound can not yet be dublicated in its true form , it would take unpresedented amounth of bit resolution and a digital wave form will never be truly like a analog , thats why the best sounding sources for music replay is still found in vinyl)

I never ever heard a recording of a c+(i record in 24 bit and my klimax ds digital music player can handel 24/192 files) played through my 30.000 usd Linn klimax system that sounds even remotly close to have my simul c+ sounds through 2 roaring 4x12´s

That said some might prefere the mark 3 but understand you will only know the truth if you have them both , period. :wink:

 

[BMcNibbnles]

Very true.

I CAN say that, to my ears, the Mark III sounds better than the Mark IV and V, though, because i HAVE played those amps. I think the IV sounds way too compressed, yet full, but the V is less compressed, but really tiny and thin sounding. The III is so open sounding.

 

[SonicProvocateur]

Ive played a IVA and it was very tight while it was rich and tight (probably more tight than my III), it wasn't as aggressive. The midrange was much more obvious. Using the suggested triode/harmonics/pulled settings for the IIC+ sounds on the IV, I would say I might have got closer to the amp, but nothing like the real circuitry. No more than mixing my III blue stripe with good cab matching and the "right conditions".

The Mark V, as it's been mentioned does sound thin..until dialed in, or played LOUD! Once at real stage volumes it does what a Boogie does; I assure you. The real Mark III sounds come out (my settings) in the Extreme/triode mode with a deep V mid scoop and about noon on presence. Obviously this replicated the Mark III's brightness. Can't really comment on the IIC+ setting, but the IV/IIC+ are similar but subltely different. I felt like from what I'd heard it captured the "vocalness and brightness" of some of the really early IIC+s...like the super early Metallica stuff and Petrucci's more nasaly tones; not the deep rhythm IIC+ tones. If you slaved it out to a big rig, the MV on the IIC+ might come way closer. Having 7 preamp tubes changes the flow alot, but being able to switch to triode helps alot.

The extreme mode on the Mark V nails my Mark III tones though; hands down (maybe a little less boomy). - most aggressive and sharp tones for shred there are!

 

[JOEY B.]

So, just what IS the most aggressive of all the Mark series? Ive heard some say that its the III.

This blue stripe Mark III is the most aggressive of any Mark series that I have owned.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

With that being said, this is the best sounding Mark III that I have owned.

Green stripe Mark III with R2 vol, C30 mod, Pentode/Triode switch for the outer sockets, and NOS tubes with hotter bias. This was a great amp, but someone made me an offer that I couldn't refuse. More aggressive does not always equal better tone. :wink:

 

[Facelift]

So, just what IS the most aggressive of all the Mark series? Ive heard some say that its the III.

This blue stripe Mark III is the most aggressive of any Mark series that I have owned.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

With that being said, this is the best sounding Mark III that I have owned.

Green stripe Mark III with R2 vol, C30 mod, Pentode/Triode switch for the outer sockets, and NOS tubes with hotter bias. This was a great amp, but someone made me an offer that I couldn't refuse. More aggressive does not always equal better tone. :wink:

More aggressive does mean better tone if thats what you are after, which IS what I was after.

Good to know from people who have played other mark series and will say that the III is the most aggressive. This is a good thing if you are a metal player like i am. Glad I made the right choice.

 

[es335]

Hi,

I´m from Germany and I hope you understand what I write:
Since about 25 years I have played a Mark IIC+ Combo (EV, Reverb) and a Mark III Combo (red stripe, simul-class, reverb, EV, GEQ).
I like and play blues, soul and classic rock. On my Mark III I only use the clean and lead channel.
In my opinion, both are fantastic amps. But it is hard to compare. Depending from age, different extras and particularly different tubes.
Overall I can say: the Mark III is more aggressive, more straight into you face. Sizzeling is hard to tame. A filthy swine
tone monster.
The Mark IIC+ is rounder, more harmonic (emphasis on "more") sounding, and treble/presence aren´t so dominant as in the III, more grown-
up. He is the gentleman tone monster.

Comparison in sound:
Mark IIC+: "gentleman"
Mark III: "filthy swine"
Both are great amps. I can´t say which of the two is better sounding. Personal preference rules.
This are just my 2 cents.


Best regards from Germany

 

[Neptical]

... Al Dimeola's "Land of the Midnight Sun" ( my favorite )

+1 Nep!!
I think Al played a MkIII for awhile back in the mid to late 80's
I was lucky enough to see the RTF reunion tour last summer! Awesome!

Yep, Al played a Mark III for awhile. Totally fitting for him. DEFINITELY lucky to have seen the RTF reunion tour. I would probably still be standing in the same spot at the venue today in awe. :lol: :lol:

~Nep~

 

[tony777]

It is the power transformer that the early Mark III's have in common with the C+. The output transformers have different part numbers, but are supposedly the same underneath the covers.

My black dot DRGX MKIII has the excact same PT and OT numbers engraved to the transformers as my DRGX c+

The III is more agressive and in your face, but the C+ is more noble.

 

[bartchamdoh]

I stand by my original thread Joey...lol.

 

[JOEY B.]

I stand by my original thread Joey...lol.

If you look at your green stripe and purple stripe output transformers, they will be stamped 562003. This is an identical transformer to the SC-152019B that is in Tony's amp, but with a different part #. The early Mark III's are sought after because of the 105 power transformer, which gives a little more headroom and punch at the the peak loads. I still stand by my post that the Mark III Coliseum has more headroom, dynamics and aggression, than my 105 PT Mark IIC+. :wink:

 

[bartchamdoh]

There's always one smarty pants lol...i concede partial defeat!When i was posting the original thread i was not implying that the circuit board was the same only that all the left over stock from the 2c/2c+s such as left over face plates,transformers and other bits and bobs were still used in the initial no stripe/dot run and that these are going to be that little bit closer in spec and feel/tone than the later stripes to the 2c+ but you are of course correct when you say only an upgraded 2c will be the same spec as a 2c+ due to the circuit board(unless you have a 2b with circuit board upgrade)...i have to say i like mark 3's for what they are and all this mark 3/2c+ comparisons only detract from what a great amp the mark 3 is!!! i traded a 60/100 fully loaded blonde 2c for my fully loaded green stripe and all these years later still feel it's the better amp and the best amp i've ever played for that matter,but thanks for clarifying the thread with your input dude.

 

[JOEY B.]

There's always one smarty pants lol...

Please understand, I'm not trying to be a "hater", but the half-truths(Mark III converted to a IIC+) can and will turn into mis-information. If you were a newcomer to the Mark series, you might pay big money for a III+ under the false assumption that it was "converted". I just prefer that people call it a III+, and embracing it for what it is, an awesome sounding amp! 8)

 

[giorikas81]

So, just what IS the most aggressive of all the Mark series? Ive heard some say that its the III.

This blue stripe Mark III is the most aggressive of any Mark series that I have owned.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

With that being said, this is the best sounding Mark III that I have owned.

Green stripe Mark III with R2 vol, C30 mod, Pentode/Triode switch for the outer sockets, and NOS tubes with hotter bias. This was a great amp, but someone made me an offer that I couldn't refuse. More aggressive does not always equal better tone. :wink:

Why are the transformers so different? The one reminds me of some fender super reverb in size and the other is puny compared like half the turns!!! Is one an export?

 

[SonicProvocateur]

Why are the transformers so different? The one reminds me of some fender super reverb in size and the other is puny compared like half the turns!!! Is one an export?

No. This is one of the only 500 made Mark III Coliseums. Boogie's with the export transformers are easily spotted by having the big red backplate/switch on the back (note, this is not my hardwood Mark, I pulled it from the web):

According to Ian's website on how many Coli's were made:

"The Series 300 amps cames as wide heads and widebody 1 x 15" combo amps. The first Series 300 as mentioned was a IIB. There were 336 of these made. The next was a Series 300 based on the Mark IIC and the Mark IIC+ amp. Of both types, there were 86 made. These were either the 180 watt Class AB model, or could be a 150 watt Simul-Class model. The last Series 300 was a Mark III based model, and again could be a pure Class AB 180 watt or a Simul-Class model. Only about 78 of these were ever made in the various "stripe" versions before the line was discontinued. Clearly, the Series 300 line is a rare production model with only a grand total of 500 being produced."

 

[holy-diver]

I talked to mike b. And he said there are probably 150 mark iii colis tops ever made. I asked about how there were supposed to only be like 80 but he said there were others with odd sns.