The key to the quest for tone...

[>Photi G<]

Many of us just can't seem to get the tone in our heads with these amps. Be it a Mark II of any type, or a Mark III, the sweet spot is hard to find. Mesa has made it easier on newer amps such as the IV and V, and other series amps, but the II and III are by far the hardest. The truth is that many of us will never get this, because we make the same fatal mistake in our settings. In one of my earlier threads, I said that a good tip is to back off of the gain (volume 1). Today, I have made another revelation that a few of you may already know, and most of us completely ignore.

The secret to the Boogie tone is-Mids. A LOT of mids. The singing lead tone requires MIDS!!!! All of the amp's harmonics and magical quirks hide in THE MIDS! Almost everybody here scoops their mids, no wonder they complain that they can't get "that sound!" People think that the Mid control in the tone stack is useless, but it is quite the opposite. I used to keep mine on 2 because I didn't think it actually did anything at all, but today, I decided to start over. All GEQ sliders at the center line, tone stack at a factory preset, and I just started tweaking sliders, turning knobs, and strumming chords/picking notes. I have never heard such beautiful crunchy sounds, and sweet lead sounds come out of a Mark III before. I don't think I'll be able to sleep tonight...

So the moral of the story is two-fold:

1.) Mids are your friend.
2.) Tweak with your ears, not your eyes. The Classic V doesn't sound good for everybody.

Once I'm done, I'll post my settings via ChainMetal.

 

[swbo101]

Couldn't agree more regarding mids. I used to keep them low, but over the past few years I bring them up to round out the sound with the highs. Also seems to makes a smoother more liquid sound, as least to my ears.

 

[Whoopysnorp]

Yeah, I don't like scooped Boogie tones at all, and I don't see why people think that to get metal tones from a Mark series amp you need to scoop the mids. There is plenty of room for big grinding mids in metal tones!

 

[daveg62]

Good post! I have been scooping my mids quite a bit less lately also. I'd like to add, I think the best thing I have done recently to improve the tone of my mark III was to use a Sylvania 12AT7 in the PI socket, really changes the amp for the better.

 

[topcat0399]

Couldn't agree more regarding mids. I used to keep them low, but over the past few years I bring them up to round out the sound with the highs. Also seems to makes a smoother more liquid sound, as least to my ears.

yap

 

[rgx612a]

Yeah, I don't like scooped Boogie tones at all, and I don't see why people think that to get metal tones from a Mark series amp you need to scoop the mids. There is plenty of room for big grinding mids in metal tones!

Sure, but even with the graphic EQ scooping out the mids on a Mark, it's still a pretty midrangy tone. No matter how the amp is set it still has a fairly good amount of midrange (as long as the middle slider isn't completely bottomed out). Without some mid scoop going on i don't think the amp is very suitable for metal rhythms at all...leads are another story, i generally keep the graphic off when i want a nice, singing lead tone on my Mark III.

 

[rgx612a]

Good post! I have been scooping my mids quite a bit less lately also. I'd like to add, I think the best thing I have done recently to improve the tone of my mark III was to use a Sylvania 12AT7 in the PI socket, really changes the amp for the better.

What does the Sylvania 12at7 in the PI do to the tone?

 

[dodger916]

Good post! I have been scooping my mids quite a bit less lately also. I'd like to add, I think the best thing I have done recently to improve the tone of my mark III was to use a Sylvania 12AT7 in the PI socket, really changes the amp for the better.

What does the Sylvania 12at7 in the PI do to the tone?

12AT7 is lower gain (70%?) than a 12AX7, but not necessarily lower output. I run a Mullard 12AT7 in my C+ and I find it rounds off some rough edges without obstructing the urgency of the amp. (there's still plenty of gain on tap.) It feels just a bit more "organic" to me. Bear in mind I'm more a mid-gain player than high gain. I also agree with the OP in boosting mids and a lower Vol 1 level. I rarely run my Vol 1 above 6 or 7 and have always bumped the 750 and 2200 sliders.

 

[>Photi G<]

Current settings, off the top of my head. Graphic EQ is currently turned off. I don't use it too much any more. I guess it's good if you want a real heavy, scoopy sound for metal, but for general rhythm and lead playing, it really isn't needed. A cool trick you can play with it is to turn all the faders down to the first line, and crank the lead master. When you use the footswitch to turn it off, you have a built-in Solo Boost. I've really been experimenting how my pickup volume/selector affects the lead tone too. I like the middle position on my Les Paul. It gives the brightness of the bridge, and the creamyness of the neck without being too flubby on the bass.

 

[Neptical]

Photi G,

Those settings are pretty close to what I currently use, but with GEQ on --and not in the norm 'V' setting. It's bright and chunky, yet still retains the creaminess for leads. As to the OP, your are correct in the noting the quest is all in the mids. :twisted:

 

[dodger916]

Current settings, off the top of my head. Graphic EQ is currently turned off. I don't use it too much any more. I guess it's good if you want a real heavy, scoopy sound for metal, but for general rhythm and lead playing, it really isn't needed. A cool trick you can play with it is to turn all the faders down to the first line, and crank the lead master. When you use the footswitch to turn it off, you have a built-in Solo Boost. I've really been experimenting how my pickup volume/selector affects the lead tone too. I like the middle position on my Les Paul. It gives the brightness of the bridge, and the creamyness of the neck without being too flubby on the bass.

I've begun using the Eq as a solo boost as well.

Photi: I've seen you post on My Les Paul Forum. Have you upgraded the electronics in your LP?

 

[>Photi G<]

[ I've begun using the Eq as a solo boost as well.

Photi: I've seen you post on My Les Paul Forum. Have you upgraded the electronics in your LP?

Nice to see a fellow MLP'er here! No, I haven't upgraded the electronics yet. That's a summer project for me. Personally, I really like the pickups, but the tone caps and the selector switch could use an upgrade, as the neck pickup is way too bassy, and sometimes the switch is sticky, and doesn't make contact in the Treble setting. The Mark III still needs new filter caps, but I can live with it for now. I need some cash to get the projects going.

As far as tweaking goes, I've kept the above settings, and am trying out the GEQ again. I'm still leaving it turned off for the most part, as I really like hearing the Boogie for what it is. But I need the GEQ for scooped rhythm, as I play a lot of Dream Theater and Metallica (Both Petrucci and Hetfield are known for their scooped rhythm). The GEQ stays off for leads (lets the harmonics ring through) and for mid-heavy rhythms whenever I feel like GNR/VR, or anybody who uses a Marshall for that matter.

Everytime I discover a new tone/use for this amp, it feels like I just bought a new piece of gear. Damn, the initial investment was steep for this amp ($830 IIRC I paid for it), but it is well worth it!

Another tip-Use a generous amount of Reverb, or delay to sweeten things up even more. The reverb on this amp is amazing!

 

[zodiac272]

I kind of stopped scooping mids too... it sounds fuller and rounder, but still very metal, and can get a hetfield rhythm tone.

see if i can post my settings with the tool:

scott

 

[>Photi G<]

That's too much gain for me. My friends who jam through the Mark III are blown away by how much gain it has at 7 on the Volume knob. I keep it low (6) so that Rhythm 1 is still clean, R2 is in the middle, and compensate with Lead Drive at 6.5, or 7.5 if I want a grittier sound. Keeping the gain low makes the channels balance better, and smooths out the inherent Blue Stripe harshness.

 

[dodger916]

[ I've begun using the Eq as a solo boost as well.

Photi: I've seen you post on My Les Paul Forum. Have you upgraded the electronics in your LP?

Nice to see a fellow MLP'er here! No, I haven't upgraded the electronics yet. That's a summer project for me. Personally, I really like the pickups, but the tone caps and the selector switch could use an upgrade, as the neck pickup is way too bassy, and sometimes the switch is sticky, and doesn't make contact in the Treble setting.

A .010 cap for the neck pup will remove some bassiness. Sorry for the hijack!

 

[boogieman60]

I run my mids at 11:00 on all 3 chanels on My V Combo. Thats where the punch and crunch is....and I use my presets at 10:00 for chan.1 12:00 for 2 and 3...I get everything I want out of the amp that way... +2 on MIDS>>>

 

[zodiac272]

From what I hear, mark III's have a touch more gain, but with this setup, the rhythm channel is still very clean, and really only breaks up with the bridge hb. this is also bedroom vol, so it may be a little different at higher volumes.

scott

 

[Neptical]

+1 on no more scooping of the mids.

My settings are identical to Scott's with exception that I 'pull deep' as well. I use a softer 'V', and sometimes use the 2200 above the 6600. Alot of it depends on which cab I'm using and the room. My settings can drastically change using my Orange PPC cab since the cab has a huge sound all on its own. 8)

 

[>Photi G<]

This is what I'm settling on. I was jamming tonight, and thought to myself "This is the f*cking sound!" This is what I dreamt my Mark would sound like when I got it! Rhythm II sounds pretty damn good as well, as I revisited it for the first time in months. It was sounding kinda dark, so I cranked the Treble some, and the Leads definitely benefited from that as well. I still haven't made up my mind with the GEQ yet. I have been keeping it off lately, and I'm not relying on it nearly as heavily as I used to.

O yea, and Reverb is at 5.5. That's REEELY important in smoothing out the tone.

 

[ryjan]

I used to set the GEQ in a "W" for metal on my Mark IV.