The JP-2C Owner's Manual is up
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Markedman
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LesPaul70
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Markedman said:
Why, that's excellent news! I'll most certainly be looking for those outdated adnd devalued original IIc+'s once they flood the market. :lol:
...but wait, did Mesa just call me, a loyal customer of theirs, a snob? :shock:
MBM said:
*breathes raggedly*
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Wow! I can't believe they said that in the manual. I guess I should sell my c+, that I've owned since it was new, before it get's quickly devalued. They had no problem cashing my snobbish check that I sent to them in 1984. I just cancelled my order for the JP-2C. Thanks Mesa, you just saved me $2500!
LesterPaul1
Member
Wow? This makes the mkv manual tame in comparison...
Attack the people that have helped create the very hype you are trying to capitalize on...
This one made me come out of hibernation
Just like another member here told me, even bad publicity is "publicity"
... And we have all heard it before
Doug can kiss my export tranny!!
Attack the people that have helped create the very hype you are trying to capitalize on...
This one made me come out of hibernation
Just like another member here told me, even bad publicity is "publicity"
... And we have all heard it before
Doug can kiss my export tranny!!
CaliforniaBoogie
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xdg999 said:
Your not the only one, friend, I cancelled my order today as well.
It's funny, I generally stand up for Mesa since they are one of the few "Made in the USA" marks left but this was a classless and ill-conceived move. I get it, they are not making a dime out of old amps. I also get they want to be deemed as innovative. But there was a tactful way of getting that sentiment across, rather than shitting on a portion of your fan base and your own legacy.
I'm sure that Mesa doesn't care about our opinions, as long as they sell 2 for each 1 that cancels...
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I hope the price of original c+'s goes down so I can buy more of them. Just like a 1965 Mustang or a 59' Les Paul, an original c+ cannot be duplicated. I guess the Mesa I bought my amp from in 1984 doesn't exist anymore.
CaliforniaBoogie
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xdg999 said:
Mesa has been trying to better the IIC+ since, well, it stopped making the IIC+. The III was supposed to be better - and it wasn't. The IV was supposed to be better - and it wasn't. The Mark V was supposed to be better - and it wasn't. Funny that Petrucci went on and on about how the Mark V IIC+ mode sounded better than his IIC+s, but then decided to base the JP2C on the former.
To some, more features equates to "better." Features are nice, but I'm going to sound a better sounding amp 10 out of 10 times. Sadly, compared to the IIC+, the JP2C falls flat.
alanlcohen
Member
Let’s see, how many times has Boogie promised “This is the Mark IIC+� Mark V, Mark V25, Mark V35, and now the JP-2C. Does this mean all the other were the IIC+ or just marketing hype? I appreciate Boogie recreating the transformer – integral on the real IIC+ I’ve played (and now can pick up at a devalued price). Are the Faux IIC+’s devaluing too? How can it be the real deal when the circuit is different?
danyeo1
Well-known member
You know Mesa, it's getting old already. And that's a GREAT point, if Petrucci thought the Mark V mode of the IIC+ was soooo great why did he base his new amp on the old original IIC+?
We all know Mesa isn't making money off the IIC+ but it was the best amp they made. Just shut up already trashing those who love the IIC+. They should celebrate the IIC+ not try time and time again the kick dirt on those who love it.
Did anyone see Marshall tell their fans that old Plexi's were garbage and they needed a JVM?
We all know Mesa isn't making money off the IIC+ but it was the best amp they made. Just shut up already trashing those who love the IIC+. They should celebrate the IIC+ not try time and time again the kick dirt on those who love it.
Did anyone see Marshall tell their fans that old Plexi's were garbage and they needed a JVM?
CaliforniaBoogie
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danyeo1 said:
That's the most surprising thing about this all, they really had no reason to lash out at IIC+ owners. There's only about 1,500 to 2,000 out there, and I don't think many of those are even for sale. So, it's not like those amps are going to cut into Mesa's sales. Further, anyone who owns or has owned a IIC+ is likely intimately familiar with how great that amp is. A nice ready made market niche that almost certainly would be interested in a modern version, even if it didn't sound quite as good as the originals. I know I was, despite the lackluster demos. Mesa easily could have talked up the original while pitching the JP2C as the next best thing and/or a way to carry the torch further. Instead, they alienated a bunch of (potential) customers for no apparent reason aside from immature pettiness.
The Marshall example is a great one. Marshall has a museum celebrating its legacy and history. Mesa, in contrast, treats its products like consumer electronics. Musical equipment - which inarguably includes amplifiers - simply doesn't operate like that. Where old TVs and computers are obsolete, classic amps are usually the ones that are most revered and valued - despite the existence of new fangled "reissues."
Let's see if Petrucci puts his old, obsolete IIC+s for sale - I'm guessing not...
Wow. I didn't take the commentary as negative as a lot of folks here have, I guess.
I'm still looking forward to getting mine and I don't really take any of this seriously. The IIC+ is a classic. People will love theirs - I know I love my blue stripe Mark III, I'm not *ever* going to give it up, but it is crazy venerable compared to new amps...like my two channel recto.
I'm still looking forward to getting mine and I don't really take any of this seriously. The IIC+ is a classic. People will love theirs - I know I love my blue stripe Mark III, I'm not *ever* going to give it up, but it is crazy venerable compared to new amps...like my two channel recto.
LesterPaul1
Member
It is not the first time... Check Mk v manual, etc.
It just makes no sense to me, marketing or otherwise.
I bought an early Mk v - nice amp. Sold it. Great points about Marshall, etc.
It just makes no sense to me, marketing or otherwise.
I bought an early Mk v - nice amp. Sold it. Great points about Marshall, etc.
laurens
Member
Marketing fail from the start. First the news was released to soon, then we got treated with an overproduced demo or two that doesn't demonstrate the sounds that the original IIC+'s were famous for. It must be really hard to do some Metallica-type riffs. This reissue is for djent fans! (sarcasm intended)
I do own an original IIC+ and was actually interested in the JP2C. But now I have doubts. The demo's have not convinced me one bit. I'll wait until people actually have played them and I'm certainly not in a hurry after those comments in the manual. WTF are they thinking at Mesa. I received a little agitated response when I asked them about the enormous pricing difference in Europa. Their order book is supposedly filled so they don't care what we think.
Let your money do the talking, buy it if you like it or not. I have deceided that I'm not gonna pay the high prices in Europe (converted into US$ 4,300).
I do own an original IIC+ and was actually interested in the JP2C. But now I have doubts. The demo's have not convinced me one bit. I'll wait until people actually have played them and I'm certainly not in a hurry after those comments in the manual. WTF are they thinking at Mesa. I received a little agitated response when I asked them about the enormous pricing difference in Europa. Their order book is supposedly filled so they don't care what we think.
Let your money do the talking, buy it if you like it or not. I have deceided that I'm not gonna pay the high prices in Europe (converted into US$ 4,300).
Authorized Boogie
Well-known member
Dear MARK II-C+ Owners and prospective JP-2C Owners,
It’s come to my attention that a phrase I wrote in the Owner’s Manual for the new JP-2C has offended some of our valued and loyal customer’s.  I can’t tell you the stress, sadness, embarrassment and regret I feel for possibly alienating and accidentally offending those who have supported our company and our products for so many years.  I want to apologize and humbly beg forgiveness for this offense and assure anyone that took offense at my words that it was meant not as an insult, but rather as a tongue in cheek humorous way of saying that the JP-2C really is that good and , in my opinion, better than a MARK II-C+.  Not because it sounds better, but because it offers so many more ways to get at and utilize those great sounds.
I also want to assure those that did take offense, that I am firmly planted in the very camp I was identifying… for I am an admitted II-C+ Snob of the highest order, and I should have made that crystal clear in my writing.  When faced with the task of creating a manual for such a full featured amplifier that will end up being very long and  let’s face it, possibly boring,  I have been tempted time and again to include a bit of humor to break up the technical monotony. Perhaps there is no place at all for it, but when the task of creating more thorough manuals for our amplifiers fell in my lap  30 years ago, I vowed to make them more enjoyable and real in terms of how musicians view things and speak than those I had in my  stack of gear manuals. (Closer if we end here;  So please accept my sincere apology… anyone who did, or may in the future, read that phrase and take offense.  It was nothing more than me trying to paint a  picture of how good the JP-2C really is.
Sincerely and Respectfully,
Douglas West
R&D, MESA/Boogie, LTD.Â
It’s come to my attention that a phrase I wrote in the Owner’s Manual for the new JP-2C has offended some of our valued and loyal customer’s.  I can’t tell you the stress, sadness, embarrassment and regret I feel for possibly alienating and accidentally offending those who have supported our company and our products for so many years.  I want to apologize and humbly beg forgiveness for this offense and assure anyone that took offense at my words that it was meant not as an insult, but rather as a tongue in cheek humorous way of saying that the JP-2C really is that good and , in my opinion, better than a MARK II-C+.  Not because it sounds better, but because it offers so many more ways to get at and utilize those great sounds.
I also want to assure those that did take offense, that I am firmly planted in the very camp I was identifying… for I am an admitted II-C+ Snob of the highest order, and I should have made that crystal clear in my writing.  When faced with the task of creating a manual for such a full featured amplifier that will end up being very long and  let’s face it, possibly boring,  I have been tempted time and again to include a bit of humor to break up the technical monotony. Perhaps there is no place at all for it, but when the task of creating more thorough manuals for our amplifiers fell in my lap  30 years ago, I vowed to make them more enjoyable and real in terms of how musicians view things and speak than those I had in my  stack of gear manuals. (Closer if we end here;  So please accept my sincere apology… anyone who did, or may in the future, read that phrase and take offense.  It was nothing more than me trying to paint a  picture of how good the JP-2C really is.
Sincerely and Respectfully,
Douglas West
R&D, MESA/Boogie, LTD.Â
That's pretty much what I thought you meant when I read it. No offense, just that purists have exacting standards and that this amp is believed to be up to the challenge.
Sorry people got up in arms about it, it happens some times. Your response felt like a good clarification.
Everyone else: sure, sometimes people inadvertently say something offensive. Sometimes people come to the table with a chip on their shoulders, too. Lighten up.
Personally I've been deeply impressed with the Mark V:25 compared the the Mark V and Mark III that I owned, and I am inclined to believe that JP-2C may hit its...uh, "Mark" (Sorry for that).
Why don't we all just hug it out?
-Daniel
Sorry people got up in arms about it, it happens some times. Your response felt like a good clarification.
Everyone else: sure, sometimes people inadvertently say something offensive. Sometimes people come to the table with a chip on their shoulders, too. Lighten up.
Personally I've been deeply impressed with the Mark V:25 compared the the Mark V and Mark III that I owned, and I am inclined to believe that JP-2C may hit its...uh, "Mark" (Sorry for that).
Why don't we all just hug it out?
-Daniel
Authorized Boogie said:
YellowJacket
Well-known member
dlpasco said:
No kidding. Haters gunna hate, but why do people even care about a bit of cheek in a MESA manual hahahaha!!!??? This whole thing strikes me as a surprisingly juvenile response to a rather funny joke.
The way I see it, the 2C+ mode on the Mark V is closer to a Simul-Class 2C+ while the JP-2C is based off of JP's favourite 2C+. JP said it best when he mentioned that there are many flavours of 2C+s out there. Kinda like rectos...
Doug teased the snobs in the mark v manual as well. :lol: But when you joke about the value the snobs act extra snobby. :mrgreen: A little drama is always fun.
Another well written manual by Doug! And JP shared a cool story too. Great stuff.
Another well written manual by Doug! And JP shared a cool story too. Great stuff.
SamuelJ86 said:
Agreed.
