THE END ALL EL34 vs 6L6 THREAD!

[Hendog]

Ok, lets hear the major differences from those of you that have personally used both...

 

[screamingdaisy]

6L6s
- Deeper, more 3D sounding clean tones. More bass depth, relaxed mids and good top end detail.
- With distorted tones I find it's hard to dial back the treble/sizzle (ie, top end detail). If I dial it back, it kills the tone. If I don't dial it back, it kills my ears.

EL34s.
- Flatter, more generic sounding clean tones. More mids, less bass, less top end detail.
- Distorted tones have more mids and the mids shift up in frequency slightly. Less open/more compression. Less sizzle. Bottom end doesn't extend as deep.


In the end it boils down to me preferring the mid response of EL34s in crunch and chug tones. There's a spread of mid frequencies that are absent in 6L6s that puts a frown on my face when I use them. I'm willing to take a hit on the clean channel to gain those frequencies.

Further, when I use 6L6s I'm always turning the treble and bass down and the mids up, which doesn't give me the feel/response I'm after. EL34s give me that sound naturally, so I feel they're a better fit for my taste in sound/feel.

 

[litesnsirens]

My assessment is somewhat similar to screaming daisy except I don't feel I am taking a hit in the clean channel with the 34's. I quite like the sound... I'm not really looking for that spunky quack that you can get with 6L's.

I'm not sure if the natural tube compression kicks in earlier because the 34's tend to break up earlier but the tones in channels 2 and 3 are definitely a lot smoother than with the 6L's. Nice creamy lead tones .... Instead of that brittle tone that the 6L's seem to have, and it's a nice musical chunky rhythm sound as well with 34's.

With the classic rock stuff that I do ... 34's seem to let me sit nicer in the mix, I found with the 6L's I would have a harder time adjusting my volume. I think it has a lot to do with what sreaming daisy described in terms of the big bittom end and pronounce highs of the 6L's, that low end doesnt cut until you crank it ... It seems to be a fine line between getting the tone out and taking over the mix.

I think if ur doing heavier and harder stuff you can get a bigger tone with the 6l's for sure... But those tend to be louder bands and the 6L's will live there nicely. For me the 34's have put a huge smile on my face and made this amp go from great to an absolute god send.

 

[eudaimonia02912]

I used SED EL34s, though I've tried other brands as well.

Compared to the 2 brands of 6L6s I've tried, the EL34s sound thicker and fatter. They have more midrange girth, and so make the amp grind more. They smooth out the top end, and get rid of some brightness I disliked. Finally, the SEDs don't appear to lose any bottom end compared to the 6L6s.

 

[Metallicaseeker]

6L6s
- Deeper, more 3D sounding clean tones. More bass depth, relaxed mids and good top end detail.
- With distorted tones I find it's hard to dial back the treble/sizzle (ie, top end detail). If I dial it back, it kills the tone. If I don't dial it back, it kills my ears.

EL34s.
- Flatter, more generic sounding clean tones. More mids, less bass, less top end detail.
- Distorted tones have more mids and the mids shift up in frequency slightly. Less open/more compression. Less sizzle. Bottom end doesn't extend as deep.


In the end it boils down to me preferring the mid response of EL34s in crunch and chug tones. There's a spread of mid frequencies that are absent in 6L6s that puts a frown on my face when I use them. I'm willing to take a hit on the clean channel to gain those frequencies.

Further, when I use 6L6s I'm always turning the treble and bass down and the mids up, which doesn't give me the feel/response I'm after. EL34s give me that sound naturally, so I feel they're a better fit for my taste in sound/feel.

OK! This ask goes to Screamingdaisy , a guy who help me more than anyone to understand my lovely amp, thank youa lot and to Litesnsirens...and everyone who tested EL34 and 6l6 and has the same experience that i had...

When Screamingdaisy said "- With distorted tones I find it's hard to dial back the treble/sizzle (ie, top end detail). If I dial it back, it kills the tone. If I don't dial it back, it kills my ears." ....it was like i was watching me in a mirron, i think...cause when i stay beside, or behide the cab speakers , any plance at all except in front of the speakers my 4x12 (2 v30 + 2 The governors) i love my sound, but if i stay exactly in front of the speakers, there is so Hi, so treble that it scratchs my tympanum inside my ears...and if i try to turn down the treable or the presence, my tone desappears...my questions are ?

1) If i Trade my valves (6l6 SED =C=) for EL34 SED =C=...i 'll can play guitar in front of my cab without kill my ears, less hi...or smooth treble/sizzle ?

2) What about the Mesa Tone...the PUNCH, CHUNK, and CHUGA CHUGA riffs , how this three mesa's features will sounds ?

Thank you all!

 

[lesterpaul]

ok...the end all right here..blend them!(IF YOU DARE>>>!)I have run STR-440's in outer sockets and STR 450's in inner sockets...6L6 bias setting..scary close to a C+ simul/geq in conj. with the mk V being in "MK IV"" mode-just stay out of 10 watt mode!!!...

 

[screamingdaisy]

1) If i Trade my valves (6l6 SED =C=) for EL34 SED =C=...i 'll can play guitar in front of my cab without kill my ears, less hi...or smooth treble/sizzle ?

I stand right in front of my cab as I don't like the duller, off axis sound. I can say the EL34s make that easier for me... I can't say if EL34s will allow you to do the same. It depends on how sensitive your hearing is.

2) What about the Mesa Tone...the PUNCH, CHUNK, and CHUGA CHUGA riffs , how this three mesa's features will sounds ?

I think the Mark V does an excellent job of sounding like a Mesa with either tube type in it. It may take a bit to get used to as the EL34s are a bit thinner sounding, but once you get used to it going back to 6L6s is harder because they'll lack the midrange grind that the EL34s bring to the table.

 

[babow2]

I put in 34's at home, and felt I lost a little 3D and a little sonic spread. It didn't sound as rich or complex as the 6L6's. So, I switched them back. Then, I continued to read on the forum about so many people loving 34's. So, I took them to the band's studio and put them in just before rehearsal. Ka-ching- in the mix of a band, the 34's rocked. With the band, you lose the ability to hear some of the 6l6's spread (higher highs, lower lows). With the 34's, that little bit of tightness really helps the guitar cut through the mix and all the tone is there, but it is better balanced within the guitar's place in the mix ( I play with a dual keyboard player....) So, I found the 34's beat out the 6L6's in a band setting and I was totally digging it. If I were recording, I think I would put 6L6's in though.

 

[jb's 52]

Ok...

Finally got a new set of EL34s and played 'em with the band this week.
To my ears, the biggest difference are the cleans. On the 6L6s are way
cleaner and more sonically surrounding. For overdriven/distorted tones,
I think the 6L6s blend in the mix more, sound more subdued, but can
easily get lost. Especially, with two guitars.

The EL34s lose that 6L6 "cleaniness" and they sound more direct and
less surrounding. With that, the EL34s have that nice cut with
od/distorted tones and sit in the mix better all around. Mine have
nice clean-to-break ratio as well. Dirty-ing up a little quicker than
the 6L6s.

For now, I don't think I'm gonna go back to the 6L6s but it wouldn't hurt
to have two MVs tubed with one set of each flavor

 

[Metallicaseeker]

OK, the last questions!!!

1) Witch tubes Hetfield used on his marks ? and rectifiers ?
2) Witch tubes Hatfield uses now on his vh4 ?
3) Witch tubes Petrucci uses on his Mark V ?

Thanks!!!

 

[Metallicaseeker]

OK, the last questions!!!

1) Witch tubes Hetfield used on his marks ? and rectifiers ?
2) Witch tubes Hatfield uses now on his vh4 ?
3) Witch tubes Petrucci uses on his Mark V ?

Thanks!!!

Anyone? :roll:

 

[theroan]

As far as I know it's 6L6's across the board. Maybe they have used EL34's, but it's not public.

In regards to the thread. I can't justify taking my clean channel down a notch just to get a Marshally crunch. Plus I play heavy heavy stuff, I like having those highs and lows. The EL34's are just too much of a comprimise.

 

[lyman]

As far as I know it's 6L6's across the board. Maybe they have used EL34's, but it's not public.

on their 1st album, was he using a modified marshall? i've seen that before but i don't know for sure.

 

[ryjan]

OK, the last questions!!!

1) Witch tubes Hetfield used on his marks ? and rectifiers ?
2) Witch tubes Hetfield uses now on his vh4 ?

Thanks!!!

In his live rig it looks like all 6L6's in his Simul-2:90's and EL34's in the VH4's from the pictures I've seen. Studio wise.... from MOP through TBA they slaved the IIC+ preamps into Marshall poweramps so I have to assume EL34's dominate their recorded tone. I seem to favor EL34's in my Mark IV when I'm shooting for the mighty Hetfield tone.

 

[litesnsirens]

As far as I know it's 6L6's across the board. Maybe they have used EL34's, but it's not public.

In regards to the thread. I can't justify taking my clean channel down a notch just to get a Marshally crunch. Plus I play heavy heavy stuff, I like having those highs and lows. The EL34's are just too much of a comprimise.

Ya if you are looking for the heavy heavy tones, 6L6's are probably the way to go. If you haven't tried 34's, it's definitely a different flavour. And that's the bottom line, they are different and they do different things... it's up to us to figure out what we need, for what we do. I loved some of the sounds I got out of the 6L's, and if I played different music I might have been able to use them, but trying to get the tones for the music I do play was difficult. I have to admit though, at home, I liked just dialing in those tones and "feeling the power".

As far as 34's being a compromise, I'm not sure what you mean? What are you compromising? The cleans?

 

[JOEY B.]

cause when i stay beside, or behide the cab speakers , any place at all except in front of the speakers my 4x12 (2 v30 + 2 The governors) i love my sound, but if i stay exactly in front of the speakers, there is so Hi, so treble that it scratchs my tympanum inside my ears.

Your TRUE tone is when you are standing in front of your speakers. How many times have you seen a cab miced from the side or rear??? Just sayin' .

OK, the last questions!!!

1) Witch tubes Hetfield used on his marks ? and rectifiers ?
2) Witch tubes Hatfield uses now on his vh4 ?
3) Witch tubes Petrucci uses on his Mark V ?

Thanks!!!

This might come as a shock to you, but some Boogie players do not give a frogs fat *** what tubes Hetfield is using. Petrucci has so much effects, that it's hard to say which tubes he might be using. I'm not knocking any of these guys, but trying to understand all the idol worship that goes on here. When you find YOUR tone, it will inspire you to play in an over the top fashion, and not worry about sounding like anyone else. 8) Peace out and good luck on your tone quest.

 

[Metallicaseeker]

cause when i stay beside, or behide the cab speakers , any place at all except in front of the speakers my 4x12 (2 v30 + 2 The governors) i love my sound, but if i stay exactly in front of the speakers, there is so Hi, so treble that it scratchs my tympanum inside my ears.

Your TRUE tone is when you are standing in front of your speakers. How many times have you seen a cab miced from the side or rear??? Just sayin' .

I know that already...it was just to ilustrate about the highs... :lol:

OK, the last questions!!!

1) Witch tubes Hetfield used on his marks ? and rectifiers ?
2) Witch tubes Hatfield uses now on his vh4 ?
3) Witch tubes Petrucci uses on his Mark V ?

Thanks!!!

This might come as a shock to you, but some Boogie players do not give a frogs fat *** what tubes Hetfield is using. Petrucci has so much effects, that it's hard to say which tubes he might be using. I'm not knocking any of these guys, but trying to understand all the idol worship that goes on here. When you find YOUR tone, it will inspire you to play in an over the top fashion, and not worry about sounding like anyone else. 8) Peace out and good luck on your tone quest.

[/quote]

even this way i would like to know if anyone knows witch tubes they use, cause i love their tones, soooooo...

Thank youuu!

 

[JOEY B.]

even this way i would like to know if anyone knows witch tubes they use, cause i love their tones, soooooo...

Thank youuu!

My post was meant to make people take a look at the big picture. The tubes are a small portion of the pie. Draw from your influences, but become your own player. 8)

 

[ryjan]

I chased the Hetfield guitar tone for years (and found it with my Mark IV) but like Joey said, on to bigger and better. You idol's tone is like a factory setting. Great place to start but you should branch out from there. I do have to say that Het's tone on their new album was pretty rad. Not on the album itself with the scratchy mastering but if you watch the making of Death Magnetic you will see a lot of clips of him recording with the IIC+. Really full, chewy tone with mids an bark. Here's a clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvO1V0IDRVU

 

[LesPaul70]

Ya if you are looking for the heavy heavy tones, 6L6's are probably the way to go.

It could boil down to our different definitions of "heavy heavy tones" but I actually think that you can get better heavy tones with EL34s. The 6L6s may be bassier and somewhat scooped but they sound far too smooth for my definition of "heavy tones" - they lack the bite, the aggression and the grit that you can get with EL34s.

As for the original query, here's my take. Yes, I've personally used both, and these are based on my experiences with EL34s (SED =C=):

Channel 1: The clean tones are where you have to take a hit. Sorry. There is no way around it. If channel 1 is your favorite channel, you might reconsider before switching over to EL34s.
Not only you lose some headroom but the Clean and Fat modes lose their special bloom and shimmer and become somewhat bland and colorless. I found that by slightly scooping the EL34 mid-emphasis I could get closer to the 6L6 type of clean tone but it was still not the same thing.
The Tweed mode is quite ok with EL34s.

Channel 2: This channel is the one that benefits the most from EL34s. The Edge and Crunch modes sound like they were built for EL34s! It still doesn't sound exactly like a vintage Marshall (and that's not what you buy a MB for, right? you'd buy a Marshall!) but it is close enough for most applications - and there are some great rock tones to be had here!
Also, the Mark I mode becomes much more usable with EL34s. With the 6L6s I find it too flabby and smooth for most applications except leads (and I need channel 2 as my mainstay crunch rhythm channel).

Channel 3: The difference is most notable in the Mark IIc+ and Mark IV modes. I think they benefit from EL34s - they become more aggressive, more "metal" sounding (and less vintage sounding). Well yes, if you are after older (pre-Load) Hetfield tones, EL34s are the way to go.
The difference is not so marked in the Extreme mode.

As a final note, I have NOT noticed a loss of bass with the SED =C= EL34s. There's mid-emphasis, true, but the low frequencies are still there.