TC50 vs Mark V 35

[Gl4th]

I have a Mark V 35 and I was wondering if the TC50 would be a good alternative. I love the clean (fat) channel, but I can't get the sound I want in the channel 2. I think is has too much mids even if I scooped them. Any suggestions, impression from who tried both?

 

[Deadpool_25]

I have a TC-50 and a Mark 5:25. I love the Fat and Crunch modes of the 5:25. I like Channel 2 a lot too but I get you. But you should be able to shape the tone pretty well using the tone knobs and the EQ...? Regardless I love the TC-50 and am now leaning toward selling the 5:25. I love that the TC is 3 channels, tube swappable, and MIDI capable. And it sounds fantastic with EL34s and 6L6s (have 6V6s but haven't tried them yet).

 

[bandit2013]

Definitely try the 6V6... :shock: after that it makes it hard to decide if EL34 are better. Actually since it drops the output power down to 25W it makes for a good alternative if you need to drive at a lower venue volume and still get that saturation you would have when pushing the 50W hard with EL34.

I do not have the V:35 or 25 so no luck in discussing what you can do. (some on the Mark V forum are trying the "saturation mod" with the V variant using a 12AT7 in V2 to improve the sonic character of CH2. However this will also affect the crunch on CH1. To what degree is hard to say, some like it some do not.

TC-50 in my books rates up there with the JP-2C in terms of my favorite amps list. I have been using the TC-50 more than my other amps (except for the Mark V:90W after saturation mod). I am stepping away from the V so I can get more fun time on the JP-2C but I am also sharing the same cab as I am using with the TC-50. Yes I do run two amps at the same time once in a while.

Ch1 on TC-50 is just awesome. Nice clean channel for the cleans with a little hint of EL34 tone but still quite nice for clean, awesome for blues in normal mode, push the toggle to drive and open up some early rock tone. CH1 has to be my favorite but it also competes with CH2 (lo gain) which is where I spend a lot of time. CH3 just pushes even more. Not quite a Mark tone as it is different unlike the big brother RA100 which gets much closer to a Mark tone but saturated and a bit spongy. TC-50 just stays tight. Very forward on pick attack.

I am also waiting for some alternate power tubes I ordered from Mesa (direct). The 5881/6L6 STR425 should have a different tone than the 6L6 STR440. Not sure what to expect yet. Also decided to order the Mesa/Siemens EL34 STR450 (NOS) tubes just to hear the difference from the Mesa EL34 STR447 (current production).

What got me to get the TC-50, different power tube choices. EL34/6V6/6L6. and when the warranty runs out I may venture on to different tube variants on the EL34 (KT77, 6CA7) or with the 6L6 variants (7581A or different versions of the 6L6GC). I am already using different tubes in my RA100 (=c= EL34 in one and Mullard RI EL34 in the other). All good.

 

[Joshwah333]

I also have the Mark V35. I highly suggest swapping the gain tubes for channel 2 with JJ's. I forget what positions exactly but it made a big difference in tone for me.

I'm also considering the TC-50. The only thing that's stopping me is wondering what will be next in the TC lineup.

Right after I bought the Mark V35, the TC-50 came out and I was kicking myself for not waiting, even though I love the Mark V35.

 

[Dreamtheaterrules]

Don't even think about ditching the V35 without doing the tube swap Bandit suggested above. Seriously. Just do it. Really. Then report back.

 

[bandit2013]

If you can wait, save up some money to get the TC-50 and keep the Mark V:35.

I had the same thoughts if I get the TC-50, they will add a 100W model shortly there after..... To be honest, I do not regret getting the TC-50. Besides, I already have the 100W version of the amp (RA100) but is a bit different in some respects but similar in others.

Would love to see what ends up as part of the Triple Crown line up.

 

[Joshwah333]

I think having the TC-50 and Mark V35 is optimal. For gigging, the TC50 would be a great, simple yet versatile and powerful amp and the Mark V35 would make a more than decent backup head. Both fit on the 2x12 vertical cab, so it's a little lighter load than a half stack.

 

[bandit2013]

In the plus side, I have been experimenting with the TC-50 (using an isolated signal splitter with phase control) to run it with any of the other tube amps. An isolated splitter eliminates the ground loop noise. (TC-50 // RA100) = Heaven, (TC-50 // JP-2c ) = Oh yeah, (TC-50 // Mark V:90W) = as you would expect just wild as the rest. (TC-50//Roadster) = Evil tone.

The TC-50 has that hard to place tone (trying to come up what a term or other product that it sounds like). In reality it is an upgraded RA100 but yet the tight response of the amp seems to dish out tone that blends well with the other amps in my arsenal. Blending amps or running them in parallel (each amp needs its own cab or if you have a Mesa 412 you can use the speaker splitter hookup on the back panel of the cabinet). Once you dial in your amp(s) and equalize the master volumes it is just incredible sound.

Not to add fever to the desire of the TC-50. If there are channel voices you cannot live without on the Mark V:35, you may not get that with the TC-50...However if your favorite voices are all on one channel I can understand your need for change.

This thread has taken over the Mark V forum.... Somewhere mid way into it, it was mentioned the equivalent tube position to swap would be V2 with a 12AT7. Since I do not have a V:25 or V:35 it is all just hear say in the thread. Some like it some do not. This may be something of interest to you to possibly find a tone on CH2 but keep in mind the lower gain of the 12AT7 will also affect CH1 (some have reported they like it after adjusting their settings.... sure it is all subjective but may be an option for you....)

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=73352

I have no complaints about the TC-50 regarding all three channels, Loop, solo. I am actually impressed by this 50W amp. the gain structure of CH2 and CH3 can be adjusted to almost match and similar to CH2 and drive CH1. 5BEQ not required with the TC-50. Tone is well balanced and full and can be adjusted to taste or even add a EQ in the loop it that is your sort of thing to do. Unfortunately I cannot compare to the MArk V variants other than the 90W model.

 

[PBGas]

I just returned my Mark V 35 and got a TC-50 Combo. It just sounds a whole lot better at gig volumes and I have always loved the EL-34 sound overall. I really like the features on this amp, including the midi. We shall see how it works once I have my Helix LT hooked up via 4CM.

 

[Gl4th]

Don't even think about ditching the V35 without doing the tube swap Bandit suggested above. Seriously. Just do it. Really. Then report back.

I've ordered the 12at7 and I'll try the swap this weekend. It's an inexpensive mod so why not to try...Let's see.

I've read several post about the TC50 so far and I'm no more that sure that it would cover the sound and versatility of a Mark model, so I'm more inclined to find my tone on the Mark V:35. After few months from its release when all the post about the TC50 were like "It's the best amp", "the best tone" now I'm reading of people complaining and returning the amp. Let's try the tube swap then, maybe it's just it.

 

[bandit2013]

There are those that may favor one over the other. It boils down to personal taste. My problem is that I cannot settle on one particular amp. Odd that I do not have any other amps than Mesa (except for the Bass rig but some day I may get one of those too).

 

[Deadpool_25]

I finally tried the 6V6s a few weeks ago and they’re awesome. Sounds fantastic. So far I have enjoyed all three of the tubes I’ve tried. The TC is a great amp, but like any other amp it depends on what you like. It won’t be for everyone just like no other amp is for everyone.

I have a Mark V 25 and that is awesome too. Really my only gripe is that I love the fat mode and the crunch mode but can’t easily switch between the two on the fly. You can kind of get close to the crunch mode on channel 2 but it’s just a bit different. With that said there are great tones in channel 2 as well.

There are other things I prefer about the TC vs the 25: 3 channels, MIDI, super controllable volume tapers. The only one of those that isn’t easily compensated for is the number of channels. Both amps are capable of outstanding tones.

 

[Gl4th]

Ok, I tried the swap, and first of all 12AT7 in V2 of Mark V:35 works. Here are my two considerations:

PROS: slightly improvement in tone, honestly barely perceptible, less hight that leave some more space to the low-mids
CONS: less gain, I mean, I know they are intended for such use, but seriously, you lose the character of the Mark V. You can't get that liquid sound for shred or something faster, moreover with the smoother high you lose the harmonics

CONCLUSION: I put back the 12AX7, dialed some different tone and re-evaluate the power and versatility of the V:35. My question was: ok, who am I to assume I'm better than Mesa Engineers and to change a tube for another? Anyway this last video gave me more inspiration as well: https://youtu.be/JD6Tk7SpR0E

In the comment of the video someone from Mesa Boogie reply to a question similar to mine:


USER: nickardasis

Amazing player, and as always Mesa delivers the best product demos/videos. I've never used a Mesa amp before so I have a simple question, this or the TC-50? What are the tonal differences and what is essentially the "Mark Sound"? Which one is more versatile (I play from jazz to metal) and which one is more usable for home use? Both are very similarly priced in Europe so I need to know some of their differences. Thanks.


MESA/Boogie

Hi Nick - Thanks for the kind words and thanks for your interest. Mesa Mark series circuits are a very unique sound compared to, say... classic circuits like British or American circuits. It's tighter and more accurate, very vocal for lead sounds, and also very tight and heavy for high gain rhythm sounds. Cleans are also incredibly clean, detailed and sparkling, and also clip nicely. Like all Mesa's, Mark series amps are very versatile and cover lots of tones, and people love the powerful 5-band graphic EQ for additional sounds or. The TC50 is more of a British circuit, and while it's also a tight, accurate overall circuit, the gain layering and the low mid punch are identifiably British. It's an easy question to ask (to compare two amps), but it's really best answered by sitting down with them both at your local dealer if possible. You have to hear it, but more importantly - feel it - to decide what works best. The TC50 might be slightly more plug and play but lots of people become Mark series devoted once they spend enough time with a Mark and then really identify their sound with those circuits. Let us know what you find out when you have a chance to check them out!

I don't want a Mesa that simulates a British amp, and I don't need a plug and play amp, I'm not at that entry level. So I'll keep the Mark V:35.
I thank you all for sharing your opinions and experience here! 8)

 

[bandit2013]

Need a wide range of tone, form blues, jazz, classic rock, to metal? What amp sums that up and has 4 channels of pleasure vs two or three... :roll: ?

Mesa boogie Roadster. But that has its own tone thing going on.....

JP-2C, sort of.... .the trick to that amp is in your guitar volume control. Very impressed with that amp.

TC-50, perhaps. CH3 has plenty of gain for the heavy stuff, CH3 is classic rock to modern, and CH1 is in a class to itself. It is quite similar to the RA100 in many respects and the RA100 is what I moved into for more classic rock tone, blues, and other slurry of sound. Most of this is done with the clean channel and it is just a matter of where you set the gain. Lo gain is great for classic rock and the hi gain is great for the heavy stuff but has more of a mark tone than the TC-50. Yes the TC-50 is a brit style amp but it does cover more styles and all you are limited to is your imagination and creativity.

For a cost point discussion. The TC-50, Mark V:35, Rectoverb, and Express series all seem to be in the sub $2000 range. As far as flexibility I believe the TC-50 has more to offer (primarily due to three different power tube options: EL34, 6L6 and 6V6). Also there is no cooling fan noise from the TC-50.
If you need more for the TC-50, say a post EQ like the mark or express, you can add that in the loop but it is not really needed to get great tone from the amp. I do not have the V35, rectoverb or the Express but have spend some time with the TC-50 only to find myself loving it more every time I plug in. Considering I have the JP-2C, Mark V (90W), Roadster, and two RA100's, the TC-50 is always a pleasure to play though, I use it for just about everything. May not be as aggressive in bass like the JP-2C or Roadster but it is no slouch in that department. It sounds incredible though the Vertical 212 or the OS recto 412. Then again, it has a big brother now, the TC-100 which is where my eyes have been targeted for the moment, waiting for them to arrive....

 

[recto-robbie]

I wound up selling my Mark V-35 and picked up the tc-50. No regrets at all doing this.
The tc50 to me has to be one of the easiest mesa amps to play and get a great sound.
I found the mark 35 very stiff feeling, a nice clean channel and heavy channel but the crunch was lacking big time. I felt the same with the F series amps too.
On the other hand the tc50 brings the goods on every channel, beautiful cleans, great crunch on both the clean and blues channel and damn near rectifier goodness on the red channel. The amp is a blast to play, very forgiving I guess, maybe wrong word here, a bit more spongy, saggy feeling but not loose?

The tc50 also offers the option to use different tubes, ive tried them all including kt77's, they all have their own character and feeling and they all sounded great in their own way.
Right now I am preferring the kt77's as they keep the el34 character but with better lows and highs, kind of like a mix of el34's and 6L6's.

I gave up on Mesa amps for a half dozen years or more and glad they brought this out, its a damn fun amp to play and I look forward now to what the future holds for Mesa.

 

[Gl4th]

I don’t want to be misunderstood, TC50 is a great amp and for shure people who just got it will say it is perfect or something like that.

I’m just saying, copy/past what at Mesa say, that it is British voiced, so far from the classical Mesa tone. I’m not sure that if I was into that kind of tone I’ll serarch a Mesa, but someone may prefer it that way, so it’s ok if you are happy.

 

[bandit2013]

The Mark series amps are great instruments and each has its own characteristics, going back to a Mark I and through its evolution to the latest Mark V in the 90W Simul-Class power amp. The Mark V:25 and Mark V:35 may have some common traits to the Mark series in some respects. The only difference is the EL84 power amp. Perhaps that is the break from its traditional roots into something a bit different. I have not had the opportunity to play through one of the EL84 powered amps yet. They sound great in the videos and other recordings. You do know that the EL84 is a British tube? This tube is the life of VOX which was made in England. Developed by Mullard in 1953. The EL84 was the original British voice tube of choice during the early 1960's. What really defines the British voice from say American is basically in the tone stack and gain circuits of the preamp but the power tubes also aid in that distinction.

As for the TC-50, it is Mesa's attempt to regain some ground in the British Voiced arena. Perhaps this all started back with the Stiletto series of amps but those were basically a mesh of British voiced Rectifier amps. Sure they were different in preamp design than the Rectifier series and some were better than others like the Stiletto Ace combo amp. The list goes on but I am not all to familiar with the history of the evolution of all mesa products. I was basically a Mark series follower for some 28 years since my first amp was a Mark III combo (blue stripe), the Mark IV combo followed in the year 2000. The Electra Dyne had its debut long before I got back into the market for buying another amp. Not sure if this was a spin off of the Lone Star or vice versa. My first experience with a Class A/B amp was with the RA100 which did spawn from the Electra Dyne to some extent. Another British voiced amp with a bit of Mark series tone hidden in the vintage hi gain channel. That was actually a big hit with me. I did jump camp and got a Roadster and still have it. Quite different than a Mark series amp in its own way. It has some heritage from the Mark III but yet different since the Rectifier amps were a new thing back in the 1990's. I did not care much for them at that time. What is cool about the Roadster, it has some of the characteristics that redefined the Mesa sound and a bit more of what separates the amp from the rest. Back to the TC-50, it is basically a reincarnated RA100 with some modern features and retuned circuits. Similar but different. It is also becoming the new Recto but has no tube rectification. It definitely bridges the gap between the Rectifier series and the Mark series and blends in some features of British voice that sets itself apart from the rest.

I would not say one is better than the other. They are all great amps to have. Nothing wrong with having both (TC-50 and Mark v:35) I personally do not have any issues with the TC-50, JP-2C, Roadster, RA100 and the Mark V (90W) all under one roof. Then again I do not just play one style of music so having a flexible pallet in which to choose from seems to work for me. Mix it up and blend the two together. TC-50 sounds great blended with the Mark V. Once you cross that path of blending amps (running them in parallel each driving their own speakers) it becomes a game changer in some respects and the tone possibilities is almost endless.

To pit the V:35 against the TC-50 would be complicated. Pros and cons may work out if you need to do such. I can think of a few cons on an EL84 based amp and one being it can only used EL84 tubes or its variants which are the same tube basically (6BQ5, 7189, 6P15, CV2975 or SV83). TC-50 changes the power tube choice to a pro as it can use three different types of power tubes, EL34 (and its variants such as KT77, 6CA7, EL34B, EL34L), 6L6GC (and its variants: 5881, 7581, 7027), and a surprise of the 6V6 (may be able to use 5871? but since they are out of production best to stick with the 6V6). Each power tube provides a different tone to some degree. Preamp tubes would be the same for both amps. TC-50 is probably the first amp I did not want to tweak with change in preamp tubes. One reason why I have an RA100 and now the TC-50 is that the Mark V did not effectively provide the tonal characteristics I needed for classic rock. Actually they both do a great job on the heavy stuff too, TC-50 is a bit better at it than the RA100. Clean channels on the TC-50 are quite respecable. Almost Fender clean unless driven hard. As far as versatility is concerned the TC-50 can do a wide range of styles with its three unique channels.

You asked and I answered, or at least tried to answer..... TC50 vs Mark V 35. Each are different in their own way. What is it you want exaclty?

As for the 12AT7 tube, the saturation mod was primarily intended for the Mark V 90W in hopes to cure the amp from brittleness associated with CH3. Some of the brittle tone may be attributed to the tone stack for that channel but is overly enhanced with the secondary gain stage of the driver circuit. How this came into use for the Mark V variants (25 or 35) was a simple comment that was stated based on the tube task chart in the user manual to point out what circuit would be similar to the big V. Since that tube position is shared by both channels, the side effect may not be desired. Perhaps a better alternative to a 12AT7 would be a long plate 12AX7 tube (like the Mullard 12AX7 reissue) used in the V1 position as this may enhance the tone of the amp since the tone stack should be between V1A and V1B. However, the 25/35 variants are as tight as the TC-50 and the JP-2C, it probably will not make any difference. I only see a benefit for using the 12AT7 in the larger (original version) Mark V. It works well for the V4 position of the 90W version.

 

[bandit2013]

I have finally gotten around to viewing some of Mesa's videos on the Mark V:35. I thought the amp sounds great in all respects. And it sounds nothing like a Fender so where does that put the amp in the American/British spectrum? Actually from what I heard in the video's, they could have easily passed the Mark V:35 off as the mini Jp-2C as it does share some common ground in its tonal character. Definitely a different animal than the Mark V 90W version. If you cannot experience the two amps side by side, one alternative is to find a resource that has made their own video demonstration of the amps in question. That way you loose the polish and production studio recording that may be tailored to suit the hype of the new amp in question. Sweetwater does have some good and reasonable demonstrations of both which is a very close example of the real deal once you get it. I have the TC-50 and it is nearly spot on to the real deal experience. If that is the case for the Mark V:35, that is one sweet amp. The TC-50 is also a good investment too.

For your reference:
Sweetwater video on the Mark V:35
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=sweetwater+mesa+&&view=detail&mid=39D2139C276CB48B40DD39D2139C276CB48B40DD&FORM=VRDGAR

Sweetwater video on the TC-50.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=sweetwater+mesa+&&view=detail&mid=0BC962DF80E61ABDA33D0BC962DF80E61ABDA33D&FORM=VRDGAR

I would not use that as all there is to go by. There may be other demos that may have more value to you based on what is recorded, style of music or settings used by the demonstrator. There is one resource that usually inspires me based on how the demonstrator tweaks the controls. It may be in German but I can hear the amp in a different perspective.
TC-50:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=sessions+mesa+boogie+review&&view=detail&mid=A67483F11590C34254F2A67483F11590C34254F2&FORM=VRDGAR
Mark V:35
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=mark+v+35+reviews&&view=detail&mid=96CF5591B63412627F5896CF5591B63412627F58&FORM=VRDGAR

By now, there are tones of videos out there. So far, I like both the V:35 and the TC-50, now that I am hearing a different perspective on each amp.

 

[Gl4th]

Here is a clear A/B test: https://youtu.be/6mFIddmQ9aM
They made part 2 of the video without extra tracks, just guitar.

I still prefer the MV:35.

 

[afu]

The JP-2C is like '80s Metallica, early Dream Theater and Santana. The V35 can do that, plus the Black Album and Lamb Of God. That extra 5-band EQ is pretty sick, though.