Sweetwater is showing "new" mesa tubes

[bandit2013]

Well my second set of STR448 came in. Red color codes. Is it more of a bias color.
Tried the Red in one of the Badlanders, not what I heard with the grays of the same tube. Tried blending the gray and red and had the same result. It was ok. Next came the gray STR440 to run with the pair of gray STR448. much better but would rather run the EL34 tubes. The full quad of STR448 in gray was more ideal for that amp.

Since this new glass was not going to be used. bummer. I pulled the STR415 out of the JP2C and loaded up the Red STR448. A bit thin sounding and much brighter in the red color code compared to the gray coded STR448 as those were epic and very close to the STR415.

Considering the STR448 grays were too much for the MWDR and Roadster. I will see how the STR448 reds sound. May even try them in the Mark V90. Still waiting on the STR445 order I placed. Not sure if they are on backorder indefinitely. They are JJ tubes so that area of Europe is not under attack by Russia.

 

[cgscotto]

I think the VII is a great amp both in sound and features. I bought it to replace my MKV, which I still love (I gave it to my son as a birthday present). I had the MK V and the JP-2C in the same rig using a Mesa HeadTrack to switch between heads (another great piece of gear because it can also switches the effects from one am FX loop to the other when it switches the head). While the JP-2C has built in midi switching, the MKV does not. I had to add extra gear to add that functionality, like the Mini Amp Gizmo from RJM. I am also using a Mastermind GT-10 for switching. Like the JP-2C's built in midi, the VII's built in midi allowed me to remove a bunch of stuff from the rig, which makes the rig easier to use. The built in Cab Clone IR also allowed me to remove an extra piece of gear performing that function as well.

As far as the sound of the amp, every mode is useful. I don't feel I have to compromise, except on which of the modes I will use on each channel. Personally, I would have chosen other modes to duplicate, but to be honest you still can only choose three at a time. My favorites are Fat on channel 1, MKVII mode on channel 2, and IIC and IV on channel 3. Those are the modes where I live. However, crunch and IIB are also really nice, and if I am in a certain mode, I will play there.

It took me a long time to get the sound I wanted from the VII mode. I had to dial it in sort of like I dial in my Triple and sort of like a Mark. I find with a boost in front, VII mode gets a great heavy rhythm sound and without the boost it is a great lead sound. I think the controls are way more sensitive than the V, for example. I fell like the VII's controls actually respond the way they are described in the manual. I don't feel that way about the V or JP-2C. It is not that the controls on those amps are bad, but reading the manual creates an expectation of how they will respond, but that way is not for the sounds I want. I feel the range of the controls in all modes and channels is greater in that I hear more changes in the sound over the whole range of the control. They also remind me of my Mark III++ in that every control adds gain it seems. I really like the feel of playing the amp. It seems to me to stay responsive no matter how much gain I dump in a channel, and it is very responsive to pick attack. I do like the IIC mode on the VII more than the V because it seems they restored that bass cap that is missing on the MKV. The sound is fuller and has more body on the VII. I used to get that sound in MKIV mode on the V.

Unlike my MKV and JP-2C, I don't think the VII responds as well to different pickups. While I can play my EMG equipped guitars and my Fishman Fluence Modern guitar on the MKV or JP-2C, I find I need to reset a lot of controls for each pickup type on the VII. I like the EMGs better than the Fluence, but that could be user error on my part. So, in general, I think the VII might be more sensitive to pickups and guitars. I have to try my single coil guitar with the VII.

HTH

 

[bandit2013]

Still waiting on the STR445 tubes. As to what bias color code would be best for a Dual Rectifier (MWDR or Roadster). However, after running the STR448 reds in the Badlander and then the JP2C, was not what I was looking for. The STR448 Grays sounded epic. So now what? The MWDR is in a good location to get out of storage. I buried the Roadster in deeper so getting that out will take some time.

Took out the STR440 Grays and loaded up the STR448 Reds. (color codes, not referencing the base color here). Well now, that was different. A TAD bit brighter (pun intended) than the STR440 grays. But something else was different that sort of resonated with me. I like the red codes vs the grays in the MWDR. Low end drone was not there. I never considered it was power tube related. The STR448 grays were swamped with too much of everything so it was not very musical. Unlike the STR440 grays that came installed in the amp. STR448 in the red bias code was great. I never expected the low end growl I was getting with the amp. I had a similar effect with the STR448 grays in the JP2C which was very addictive. Almost comparable to the STR415 I have in the JP now. Palm muting was not swamped with a muffled low end. It was tight. I think the mids were not as pronounced so minor adjustment on the midrange helped. Played with a few guitars and one with a D-tuna. It was not until then I realized that low end bark that got me thinking what if.. I get the 7 string out. Holy Heavy Bottom grinder Boogieman, that was almost epic. No need to force any artificial gain on the front end. I was ripping out some heavy bottom cords with a grind I only wish was capable with the Bass amp. No mud, no muffled drone. I did not try spongy power mode yet. I did have CH3 on silicon rectification and CH2 on tube rec. Modern voice. Both sounded great. Never thought of using Reds in the MWDR. Will try out the STR440 reds I have on hand to compare. Clean was not bad at all.

I will eventually dig up the Roadster. Still think something went on it. Not sure what. At least I know where the STR448 Reds will be used unless the STR445 change my mind. For a MWDR and would assume the MWTR would be similar, STR448 Reds or perhaps Yellows would be work.

 

[bandit2013]

I just received two quads of the Mesa STR 448 Red base from Sweetwater. I also have three quads of the TAD Red Base 6L6. While everybody has noted they look identical, they are, in fact, identical. I have not seen this detail mentioned in the thread. On the Mesa quads I received from Sweetwater, if you turn the tube upside down and read what is says on the base, you will see TAD GERMANY, which is, obviously, what is on the bottom the TAD quads.

Three of the duets I received from Sweetwater were GRN and the other duet was rated YLW. I tested all four quads on my Orange VT tube tester (I know not the best, but it does give me useful information, such as matching numbers). Of course, all of them tested good, but the matching numbers were interesting. Two duets of GRN gave me matching numbers of 8 (the matching numbers also indicate how hot the tube are), the third duet was rated 7, and the YLW was rated 7. For comparison, the two TAD quads all consistently gave me matching numbers of 8.

I bought the two quads of TADs from Amplified Parts, and told them in which amp I would be using them, JP-2C. I'd say, based on the matching numbers returned by the tube tester, they did a pretty good job of selecting the tubes.

I had a third quad that I put in the JP-2C about a year ago. I liked the tone. It was a bit better than the Mesa 440 Grays that came with the amp and also a bit better than the TAD Black Plate 6L6s that replaced the Mesas. I felt the frequency range was more balanced, power was great, and the sound more detailed. Unfortunately, one of those TAD Red Base tubes red plated. I got a replacement from Amplified parts and bought a quad of Tung-Sol 7581As, which is what is in the JP-2C now. I like these tubes as well, but when they wear out, I will probably put the TAD Red Base back in the JP-2C.

As far as price goes, Amplified Parts sells a single TAD Red Base for $35, a matched duet for $70, and a matched quad for $140. The Tube Store sells a matched duet for $90, and of course Mesa sells a matched duet for $99. I think the extra $9 dollars is worth the cost over The Tube Store to preserve the warranty on my new Mark VII while still getting the benefit of using a TAD Red Base tube (my JP-2C is out of warranty). Amplified Parts has the cheapest price at $140 a quad, but one of their tubes did red plate. I have had Mesa tubes red plate, so I am not inclined to put too much weight on that metric. The V1 tube in my new Mark VII went microphonic about a week after I received the amp. Moreover, the tubes Amplified Parts sent seem to be rated just where Mesa rates their tubes.

The next step will be to break out the bias probe and measure the actually mA the tubes draw in the amp. For that, I will have to pull the chassis, and I think I would rather practice then spend time on that at the moment. I may, however, pull the Mesa tubes that shipped with the Mark VII, which are JJ's, which I do not like in any amp expect my Triple Rectifier. Of course, I will put in one of the Mesa quads in the Mark VII. If I do I will report back on how they sound.

I need to ask, have you tried any of the STR448 greens + yellows in the TR yet? If so, how would you describe the difference between the STR448 and the STR445?

Also since I am looking to get the Mark VII, did you experiment with the Mesa STR448 yet?

 

[cgscotto]

I didn't buy the STR448s for the Triple, so I don't think I will try them in that amp. I have TAD 6L6s with the black bottoms in that amp at the moment, and I am pretty happy with the sound.

However, I did buy the STR448s for the MKVII. It came with JJ, which as I said I really only like in the TR. I will put the greens in the VII, but I am not sure when. As soon as I do, I will report back.

 

[bandit2013]

I didn't buy the STR448s for the Triple, so I don't think I will try them in that amp. I have TAD 6L6s with the black bottoms in that amp at the moment, and I am pretty happy with the sound.

However, I did buy the STR448s for the MKVII. It came with JJ, which as I said I really only like in the TR. I will put the greens in the VII, but I am not sure when. As soon as I do, I will report back.

Good to know.
Did you try the other TAD red base tubes in the Triple that are identical to the STR448? If it is the black base type those are different than the TAD red Base 6L6MGC-STR tubes. I had some of the older ones based on the RCA design with black plates 6L6GC-STR tubes (supposed to be the same thing as the Preferred series tube). Wonder what the two good ones I have would sound like with the STR448 or SED =C= 6L6GC. The TAD black base I have were used up and worn out in the Mark V. I had red plated those as the V had a bias issue. Odd that the SED =C= survived the abuse. I have been seeking that tone I got with the Mark IV when I blended the TAD 6L6GC-STR with the SED =C=6L6GC. the STR415 in the JP2C is as close as I will get (not a Simul-Class amp so I did not think it was possible to get that sinister grind). I should have kept the Mark IV. Odd that the V is not up to the task. Even with the exact same tubes used in the Class A and A/B sockets, it just never compared to the IV.

The black bottoms were made by Shuguang and the Red base are made by PSVane as a custom order of sorts. The extra cost for the Mesa tubes is part of the sorting and testing process so you end up paying for that service plus it meets the amp warranty requirements. I have tried Ruby 6L6GCMSTR and compared those to the Mesa STR440. Same tube in most respects but they sound different. I actually liked the Ruby 6L6GCMSTR better as they had an interesting tone in the brittle voiced Mark V.

If you take a closer took at the Red base tubes, the plates are nearly identical to the STR440 (Shuguang 6L6GC). I am sure there are differences in what you cannot see. The Black plate TAD or Preferred series is similar to that of the STR415, different material but the shape is damn close and there are no holes cut in the plates. I did not get the same effect though. Found the Preferred seires to be much brighter, I do not remember what amp I specified when I ordered them. Had to isolate the one pair as I get that sizzling bacon sound from them. Bummer. I should explore the good pair a bit more and see what will come out of it.

Even the STR441 and STR443 still have the Tung Sol logos or labeling on the base or top portion of the glass. No printing on the sides. Places like TAD, Fender, Mesa, Marshall will have tubes made for them under the guise of private label stock.

 

[cgscotto]

Did you try the other TAD red base tubes in the Triple that are identical to the STR448? If it is the black base type those are different than the TAD red Base 6L6MGC-STR tubes. I had some of the older ones based on the RCA design with black plates 6L6GC-STR tubes (supposed to be the same thing as the Preferred series tube).

I did not try the TAD red base tubes in the Triple. I have the older RCA design with black plates 6L6-STR TAD tubes in the triple at the moment. I have a bunch of these tubes. I like them in the Triple and don't feel the need to change them. If and when I change tubes in the Triple, I have quite a few SED Winged C tubes in my stash, so those will go in the Triple. Before the TAD black base, I had a sextet of SED winged Cs in it.

 

[bandit2013]

Never tried the SED =C= 6L6GC tubes in my MWDR. I will have to find out how they sound. Still have two full quads of those. I did not care for those in the Roadster though. The JP2C seemed too damn bright with the =C=. However, the TungSol 7581 were a bit different. Those that I have are basically spent but still work without much tone loss. My Mark V90 was a power tube killer as it would red plate most tubes except for the TS 7581 or the SED =C= tubes. Bias was corrected so I can run the Mesa STR440 tubes without instant failure. Also, the SED =C= 6L6GC was the only set of tubes I ran in the Mark V90 that gave me that 3D sound.

As for the Rectifier amp, was just looking for another opinion on the STR448 or TAD red base in general. However, the STR448 with the red bias code sounded really good in the MWDR. First time I was ever able to enjoy running a 7 string with that amp without being flooded with drone. Instead of the sub-harmonic washout, I got low end grind that just was very addictive. That was a wow moment. A bit on the bright side with the 6 string. The MWDR is much brighter than the Roadster. Will have to try those in the Roadster just for kicks. Then followed up with the Mark V90. The first set of STR448 I got had the bias color of gray. Too much for the MWDR, Roadster or the Mark V as it was not very musical would best describe it.

 

[bandit2013]

OK, I did try the STR448 (grays) in the Mark VII. One word to best sum it up: Boxy. I felt the change in character with the JP2C was more rewarding. Perhaps not a Simul-Class preferred tube. Boxy in reference to sounding bland, more like the Mark V90 that I have. Oh, well. Not a total loss. Just thought I would share that experience. One thing for sure, they are not STR415 tubes equivalents as TAD is claiming. They are close but different. Hey, I had to try them and now I know.

 

[cgscotto]

I tried the STR448 (greens) in the Mark VII. I liked them. The amp became a bit brighter, so I had to tone it back a bit in some modes. Personally, I think the amp opened up a bit. If you try the high gain channels without the EQ, sure the amp becomes more mid focused and boxy. At one point I thought the same thing. I had a channel dailed in for a heavy rhythm sound, but it sounded really mid focused and boxy. I did not realize that on my midi controller rather than changing presets, I had turned the EQ on the amp off. Once I kicked it back on, the fullness and huge sound of the amp return.

I like the distortion with the STR448, good grind, balanced of the spectrum, and articulate. Really responds well to pick attack with good transients. I am going to leave them in. Here are some photos of my two rigs. I can connect both rigs together through the pedal boards, which has a Mesa Switchtrack on it. The sounds of both rigs together is glorious.

 

[bandit2013]

Just for kicks, I swapped the STR415 from the JP2C to the Mark VII and the STR445 into the JP2C.
The STR415 sounded good in the Mark VII but felt the STR445 sounded better (mostly with the clean channel). The kicker is that the JP2C sounded much the same and was difficult to tell the difference between the STR445 and STR415.

Everything about power tubes can be very subjective. As long as they work and do not get overloaded and red plate. Not sure what the plate voltage is on the VII but I would assume it is about the same as the JP2C. Not due to sizing of the PT, more based on some communications I had with a friend who has been looking into alternative power tubes for his IIC HR amp, he has been in touch with Mesa CS.

I guess in short, if you think your JP2C is just ok with the STR440 or STR443, the STR415, STR445 and perhaps the STR448 may be something to try out. I think once you empty the bank account to get the STR415 you will probably stick with those. However, the STR445 are a lower cost alternative to the STR415. Not sure how long they will last though, same would go for the STR448. I only ran the VII for a short period of time to compare the Clean and IIC+ modes (less than 20 minutes) as I still have bad memories of my Mark V90 red plating tubes constantly before I had the bias corrected. I personally do not trust the Mark VII just yet. My confidence is growing more a more optimistic view point.

 

[bandit2013]

I see Sweetwater also has the alternate for the EL34 STR447. New STR446 EL34. Same manufacturer as the STR448.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...boogie-el-34-str-446-power-tubes-matched-duet

 

[bandit2013]

I ordered two pairs of them, requested green or gray bias color range. I did not want reds or blues. Blues are not bad in the STR447, never came across any reds though. Need to find alternatives for the SED =C=EL34 tubes for the RA100s. Sure, I have a quad of the STR450 ready for use. Want something else that can be used in the Triple Crown and Badlander as well. I still have a few sets of lightly used STR447 so not in a bad situation with no replacement tubes.

 

[bandit2013]

OK, Spent a few days on the STR446 in the TC100. Not bad tubes. It was hard to tell if I had even replaced them. There may have been a slight increase in brightness but it has been a while since I ran this amp to start with. Had to get the TC50 out that still has the STR447 tubes in it. Ran it side by side it was difficult to determine any major differences between the tubes. Yeah, the TC50 does have a disadvantage in the low-end department but the overall tone is the same.
The first thing I noticed with the STR446 in the TC100, they were not harsh right out of the box. They sounded great. I did not feel like I had to wait for the tone to settle down or bloom.

The better test was with the two Badlanders. That was a good way to determine if there is much of a difference between a quad of STR446 vs a quad of STR447. Yes, there is a tone difference between the two tubes. I was able to get the same grind characteristics from both amps so there was no change in any power tube saturation. However, the STR446 are a hint brighter but also have more note definition than the STR447 of the same bias colors. When I got the STR446 I asked for greens or grays to avoid getting any reds, yellows ore blues as that is what I have in the Badlander. Well, I got what I asked for, one pair green and one pair gray. That is what I have in both Badlanders since one had grays and the other had greens, so I swapped a pair from each amp to keep them as close as possible. So far, the STR446 is a really good tube from my short experience with them.

How are they different Tone wise: I felt the low end was about the same. If there was much of a difference my ears could not pick it up. I could use an audio analyzer to view the frequency spectrum of the sounds. The midrange is where there is a difference. STR446 had a lower midrange growl whereas the STR447 is more of a higher midrange with a slight blanket. Top end is very similar but notes will ring out better with the STR446. Also have to consider the STR446 is essentially new and does not have as many hours on them as the STR447 I am comparing too. That could be the main difference between the tone.

I do like what I am hearing with the STR446. They have a good balance in tone and performance is about the same as the STR447 as I can ring out the same harmonics and get a good palm muted effect. From clean, crunch to crush, it was all good with low gain to full gain settings.

Physical differences: Tubes are the same size in diameter, height is about the same so no issue with extra-long glass bottles like the STR448 6L6 tubes. Pin count is different. The STR447 does not have pin 6 but the STR447 has all 8 pins. The tubes fit snug into the socket. I almost did not need the bear claw to hole them into place. No audible rattling of the tube structure like you can get with some EL34 tubes. They sounded solid and no vibration of the internals could be heard when tapping on the tube glass. They also glow blue just like an STR442(SED =C= EL34) tube or a typical 6L6GC. If there is any blue hue other than the corona around the cathode with the STR447, I just do not see it, even in the dark. Plates have a rib above and below the rectangular vents. They are also welded and not crimped like the STR447. The thermal fins on the top are curved to the outside towards the glass vs going straight across the tubes. Single getter and not bridged from plate stud to plate stud. I will have to leave them in the one Badladner and see how things change over time. At least the STR446 (TAD red base EL34) appears to be consistent and not much of a dramatic difference from the STR447 with the exception of a little bit of clarity or note definition. These are worth trying if there are no other EL34 tubes available. It is unclear when the STR447 resource will dry up. That is probably one of the hold-backs on the TC100 or even the Badlander is getting the tubes in stock.

On the other side of the tone farm, the STR448 (gray bias color) do sound great in the Badlander as well. I still prefer the EL34 tube in that amp.

 

[woodbutcher65]

There are now so many STR 44x series tubes, we need a guide to the whole lot of them!

 

[bandit2013]

Mesa used to have one. I had that documentation but cannot seem to find it. It was old stuff too.
As for what is available now, just look at their website under the parts tab. Not much to select from.
As for older tube numbers, we know what the STR415 is, 6L6GC Sylvania. Not sure on the STR416 mine had RCA on them, 6CA78. STR442 was the SED =C= EL34 tube, lasted for a short time. The rest, I have no clue. The numbers come and go over the past few decades.

 

[cgscotto]

6L6 STR 420, which if I remember correctly were Chinese tubes, came in all the amps I had in the late 90’s.

 

[bandit2013]

Where those the coke bottle 6L6GC tubes. That is what my Mark IVB had in them. Bought it in 2000.

 

[domct203]

Yes, the STR-420 was the bottom getter coke bottle design.

Dom

 

[cgscotto]

Mesa had another straight bottle STR 420. Most of the amps I had came with these: