Stumped (no sustain)

[MichiganboySB]

Dual Rect (new), $3500 Roman Quicksilver (I know), X2N Dimarzio bridge pickup with Super Distortion for neck, (2) 1x12 Harry Kolbe cabinets and any/every effects pedal you can think of. Can't seem to get any life out of all this, just lacks sustain and quality feedback. Recently I had re-tubed it using EuroTubes "my personal fav" kit. KT77's and 6v6's in EL34 mode, along with GZ34 rectifier tubes. Oh and of course all the preamp tubes were replaced. At this point I feel either its my house voltage or its simply cuz I'm not using a 4x12 behind this puppy. Tonight I'll put a voltage tester on the receptacle... been slacking off doing this. Anyway, this is my complaint and I'm sticking to it! Here's the pic I've only showed you guys a million times if you care to see it again. http://www.wideopenwest.com/~kpasque/mygear.jpg

Talk atcha,
Ken

 

[Cheez]

Hmmm... have you tried plugging straight in? If it sounds good that way, slowly add each of you effects back in until you find the tone / sustain sucker.

 

[Elpelotero]

agreed^^^^. also, what kind of general settings are you using? sustain also has a lot to do with the guitar itself. never played a roman, but i know what they are. a strat versus a mcnaught will be a no comparison game.

 

[Micah]

I think I could uderstand the type of feedback sustain your talking about--Heres what I do--I turn all of my channel masters off and then place my Outputvolume @ a minimum of 1 oclock if not pegged. Now take your channel Master and place them where your desired volume is @--This will also do remarkable things for your Clean tone. Also when your dealing with sustain(the way I do it) I like to peg my presence all of the way to the right and then use my mids to dial in clarity or out nasties. There is a magic spot on the mids for your pickup/guitar and amount of gain. To find this I like to turn the mids off and then alternate pick a note till I get ther right amount of squish while retaining the punch I want. Another thing is to turn down the bass. I like to still have edge on the bottom side of my mids and this seems to help my note screams and harmonics. I let the gain account for my bottom end chunk so I play it about 3 oclock. Bass I have about 8:45 or 9 oclock. Mids are set to 7:30 or 8 and Treble is @ about 1 or 2(if Im having a hard time hearing myself). These settings really highlight the gain and allow it to do the walking which extends your sustain. Hope this helps :wink:

 

[trendkill1168]

I know you have an expensive guitar but make sure you don't have any fret buzz cause it will cut back on your sustain. The higher the action, the better the sustain because the strings are free to vibrate without anything stopping them. You'll have to find that happy medium so you can get the action as low as possible with zero fret buzz. Make sure your truss rod is adjusted as well because that can also cause fret buzz. I use an automotive feeler guage and set mine at .010 or less at the eighth fret just to make sure there is a slight releaf in the neck. Next I would make sure that your pickups are close enough to the strings. I ususally have mine about an eighth of an inch to the strings when I'm fretting the 22nd fret. If you don't feel comfortable setting the guitar up then I would take it to a professional.

Lastly, keep your amp channel volumes low like around 9-10:00 and crank the master volume on the amp to around 1:00 so you can get your power tubes going. That should definately provide you with more sustain.

 

[Platypus]

Post your settings.. there are lots of 'wrong' settings on recitifers which produce this exact problem.

 

[jbird]

I would'nt overlook the (two) 1/12 cabs! Try your head through a different cab! How do you have those cabs connected to your head anyways?

 

[MichiganboySB]

Tomorrow I need to take time to answer all your questions, you guys are great. Guess I'll try and answer some now. each 1x12 is connected through a 4ohm hole... so got that right. I mean they are 8ohm cabs and the manual tells me whats what. Now my pickups are as much as 1/4 to 3/8 away from the strings and that's with them depressed at the 22nd fret. See they are directly coupled which means they are fastened directly to the body (no spring adjustment). So, that may be the culprit... right there. Tomorrow I'll try and make a shim and bring these pickups up a bit. The guitar tech said what might be happening is the pickups are actually too close and are magnetically pulling them taught... thus losing string vibration. I'd sure like to go the extra mile, post pics of my amp's controls so you can possible see a gross error in my setup. Oh, and I do have it set up to plug this head into a friend of mine's 4x12, in a couple days. I'm currently having a special 4x12 made up by this one guy but he's slacking a little. Sorry for no paragraphs and lack of organizational replies... its kind of late and I want you to know i'm reading all your suggestions.
I hope to help you guys as much as I can so maybe you can help me. I almost feel sick to my stomach that I don't play anymore... you know what I mean?
Many thanks,
Ken

 

[MichiganboySB]

Raising my pickups has greatly improved my tone and feedback. I could very well be on to something here. My attempts to solve these issues were always in the form of truss rod adjustments, intonation, buying more gear etc....But never raising my pickups because, like I said, they are direct coupled. I shimmed my X2N to within an 1/8 while depressing at the 22nd fret. I also brought my Neck pickup higher (still need to adjust the poles). Guess I'm wondering how close is too close with these pickups? I read that if they are too close the magnetic string pull will give intonation problems. There you have it ... thanks again for your suggestions, sure hope to record a clip or two FINALLY!
Ken

 

[Platypus]

You never posted your settings

 

[MichiganboySB]

Well sometimes I dime my bass but for the most part its around noonish. Sometimes I enjoy scooping the mids to around 8 o clock while other times I run the mid at 3 o clock. The treble is usually at about 1 o clock with the presence usually dimed. I enjoy clean distortion so thats around 1-2 o clock. Oh and yes the Master volume is at about 1 o clock with the channel volume at about 10 o clock I think. Its pretty god darn loud let me tell ya! I'm always "delay" and "reverb" thirsty so my FX loop is dimed with the "send volume"(this right) at about half way I think. Wish I was more clear with my settings... I only had a half n hour to see if raising the pickups made a difference. But I'm happy talking to you about amp settings now whereas before no matter what I did sounded any better.
Talk to ya later,
Ken

 

[Guitarzan]

I read that if they (pickups) are too close the magnetic string pull will give intonation problems.

Personally...I think this is your problem. X2N's are powerful p/u's coupled w/ a super dist. Your strings aren't ringing.

 

[MichiganboySB]

Think my bridge is a Dimarzio Dual Sound along with the X2N in Bridge. But no it sounds so much better after I shimmed them closer to the strings. As I said they were as much as a 1/4-3/8 away and thats depressing the string at the 22nd fret. Guess I took for granted that taking it to two different guitar repair guys, they would've had this properly set. Then again, in a day or two I might be bored with it all over again
Doubt it though,
Ken

 

[Guitarzan]

Think my bridge is a Dimarzio Dual Sound along with the X2N in Bridge. But no it sounds so much better after I shimmed them closer to the strings. As I said they were as much as a 1/4-3/8 away and thats depressing the string at the 22nd fret. Guess I took for granted that taking it to two different guitar repair guys, they would've had this properly set. Then again, in a day or two I might be bored with it all over again
Doubt it though,
Ken

Your running a DR now. Over the top p/u's are more of hinderence. Look into something more refined but still powerful. Bill Lawrence L-500's, Duncan Customs, Dimarzio Breed's. That's my suggestion.

 

[Platypus]

To build on Guitarzan's point, you're MAXING out your presence?! That's gonna kill all your sustain right there. Anything above 1 o clock and you're looking at more attack but less carry. Try something more reasonable like 11 o clock or noon.

 

[trendkill1168]

Think my bridge is a Dimarzio Dual Sound along with the X2N in Bridge. But no it sounds so much better after I shimmed them closer to the strings. As I said they were as much as a 1/4-3/8 away and thats depressing the string at the 22nd fret. Guess I took for granted that taking it to two different guitar repair guys, they would've had this properly set. Then again, in a day or two I might be bored with it all over again
Doubt it though,
Ken

Sweet dude.....glad that worked out and it is a very easy fix. I've had that problem before with guitars I bought that weren't setup properly. I've paid techs to set mine up and then I get them home and have to tweak things so I've started doing it all myself. I was a little leary on the truss rod at first but it is actually pretty easy to adjust.

 

[oyster]

I also suspect if you scoop your mids that much (8:00) you will also reduce your sustain and feedback. Remember, that many of the mid frequencies are responsible for increased sustain and feedback...maybe try a higher mid setting (along with tube rectification and maybe even spongy power setting, in order to counteract the harder feel that will accompany the higher mids).

 

[Grandor]

Wow thats alot of presence you boys are dialing in there.

Why don't you try something that sounds... good? like 9 o'clock or off.

lol. Not a presence fan over here.

 

[MichiganboySB]

Bummer I remember posting a reply but guess it didn't stick. Anyways I'm psyched after trying my bud's Triple 2 channel with Marshall 4x12. He's right you don't need any effects with it. So this pretty much answers what I'm lacking in my gear and thats a 4x12. Its being made right now, don't know when he'll have it done but I'll make sure to post pics.
Ken