Studio Pre - Metal tones? How metal? In need of advice.

[j4q0]

Hello all!
Needing some advice here.
So I've found one of these Studio pre beauties at what seems a very good price ($450) and I'm looking to get some metal tones out of it.
I've read that these can do Master of Puppets tones and perhaps some Petrucci tones, how accurate is this?
I've also read that you would need a good booster to get those metal tones.
Perhaps a Quad-pre is a better choice?

What would be an acceptable price for either one of these?

Please advice.

Thanks!

 

[JMMP]

I am not a huge metallica fan, but they did use mark series amps for part of their career and the studio is a mark series preamp. I do not firsthand know how much gain they have on hand, but there are many demos of them on YouTube. I have a quad preamp which I bought to get the JP/ dream theater vibe, and it does it splendidly. Sometimes it feels like it doesn't have enough gain, but usually that is when I'm not playing loud enough. The power amp you run it through will influence how it sounds, but if you have never played a mark series amp before, it should sound very close.

$450 isn't a bad price, especially if it is in great condition. I imagine camping out on eBay you could get it for maybe a few dollars cheaper, but probably not enough to be concerned about. The market fluctuates on both the quad and the studio. One day a quad will go for 550, a few days later the bid reached 1100 dollars. Studios are between 430 and 750 that I've seen in the past few months on eBay.

 

[Oliver_5150]

I would definitely say that you could get Petrucci like tones from the Studio. I bought mine for that reason, and I am so happy with it. But sounding like JP, is not easy, no matter what amp you are using. A lot of his sound is in his hands. Gain wise, there are plenty, more than I expected, but I have considered a booster pedal of some sort, because I sometimes like to have just a little bit more.

As for the price, I think 450 is a pretty good price.

Good luck with your purchasing

 

[j4q0]

Cool Thanks for the replies.
Honestly I'm not expecting crazy death metal gain from the pre but I am hoping to get enough high gain that it works by itself without the need of a boost, although Oliver has commented that using a boost is not out of the equation.

By the way, will any foot switch work will the pre? The one I found doesn't have one.

 

[JMMP]

I believe any latching footswitch will work. That's how the quad is.

 

[Oliver_5150]

I don't know what your plans are, but if you are planing on going full out with rack effect and such, you might consider buying an unit with relay switching(such as the TC G-major). I use my a midi foot controller and a TC G-major to control my Studio Pre, and it works great!

 

[j4q0]

Yep!
I have a G-major and a Mesa 20/20 already so I was just figuring out how to make it work. I don't want to go to heavy on the rack though as I want to keep things relatively light, I don't want to be hauling a "fridge" to every show... although it is true that good tone comes in heavy packages.

I'll pick up the preamp this weekend so hopefully (if my mind remembers) I'll be posting my impressions and experience about the Studio Pre, which I'm anticipating are going to be very positive and satisfactory

 

[Oliver_5150]

Please let us know what you think about it, when you get it!

 

[r_cod_81]

I get a pretty solid metal tone out of mine, I set the clean to be as pushed as possible without actually breaking up. I've had mine about three years and it was made in March/ April 1990.

Here are my settings:

Volume 8
Master 6
Treble 8
Mid 0-3
Bass 0-4
Reverb to taste
Lead gain 10
Lead master 2

Rhythm Bright OFF
Lead Fat ON
Lead Bright OFF

GEQ:
80 Hz small boost
240 Hz small cut
750 Hz fully cut
2200 Hz boost
6600 Hz middle/ slight boost

Not sure if mine has the 'C+' mod but don't care, suits me perfectly. I certainly don't need a boost for it.

Have fun!

 

[JMMP]

I get a pretty solid metal tone out of mine, I set the clean to be as pushed as possible without actually breaking up. I've had mine about three years and it was made in March/ April 1990.

Here are my settings:

Volume 8
Master 6
Treble 8
Mid 0-3
Bass 0-4
Reverb to taste
Lead gain 10
Lead master 2

Rhythm Bright OFF
Lead Fat ON
Lead Bright OFF

GEQ:
80 Hz small boost
240 Hz small cut
750 Hz fully cut
2200 Hz boost
6600 Hz middle/ slight boost

Not sure if mine has the 'C+' mod but don't care, suits me perfectly. I certainly don't need a boost for it.

Have fun!

Pretty close to how I run the 2c side of my quad. If you want the ultimate metal tone, push the volume up to 9 (don't expect a good clean) and the treble anywhere from 7-9. I refuse to turn my gain above 8, but you may like it at 10. Also look at Metallica's and JP's graphic eq settings. Note that your 20/20 has a drastic low mid hump (mine has it too) and this will change your graphic eq settings.

Someone in another part of this board worded it well: the rotary eq knobs change the feel of the amp, and the graphic changes the tone. Don't give up on the pre quickly. I remember struggling with settings until I read the quad manual, and found out how much gain that thing has. The graphic is likely what you will change when something doesn't sound how you want it.

Also, you mentioned it had some problems. Could you state what problems those are? Could be an easy fix, could be a mesa/ tech fix.

 

[j4q0]

So turns out that I met with the guy selling the preamp and we got ourselves a deal and I got the preamp.

Just to establish a reference the signal chain is as follows:
custom guitar mahogany body/maple top/ebony fretboard>high output pups>studio pre>mesa 20/20>randall 2x12 celestion V30 and for comparison custom made 2x12 with Eminence Lynch Super V12

My first impression was that this pre is not a plug and play as I had to work the knobs quite a bit until I figured out how to make it work for me.
It is definitely a bit hard to keep the "flubbiness" of the low end and although I agree that the pre has enough gain, one can never have too much gain Perhaps a little boost would be good just to tighten the low end and add a bit of bite.
I tried a SD-1 as a boost and it works like it's supposed to but it also adds that mid range sound that destroys the shape of the sound one carves with the controls and the graphic eq.

There is a midrange frequency that I'm trying to dial out but I can't seem to get it, and I'm not entirely sure if it's in the upper or lower midrange as I was pretty tired when trying the preamp.
Perhaps it's that through my experience I'm more used to the sound of 4x12 celestion G12T-75 than the 2x12 V30's, I should say now that I'm a new user of the V30's and I've had them only for a few months.
Another reason could be that now I'm playing a 2x12 instead of a 4x12 which normally has more thump and punch?

Crunchy rock tones from this pre are thick and exactly crunchy, very creamy overdrive and very pleasant to the ear, very well balanced sound overall even when turning the knobs to the extremes. Again the low end needs a little attention but certainly not as much as when trying to get a high gain metal tone.

Getting a nice well rounded clean tone was pretty easy and I would say this is like a plug and play in this preamp.

Now, to my surprise the pre is not in absolute mint condition, it has been used and sadly not taken good care of, some knobs are cracked (how can one manage to do that?) and the footswitch jack (both rear and front) make some weird noises when one connects the plug in, these things are easy fixes.

As I'm not familiar with this pre, I'm not sure about how the 2 channels work with each other, it is a bit hard to control the knob settings for both channels as they are shared, sure the graphic eq helps but it seems that in the lead channel the bass knob needs to be very low and in the rhythm channel a bit higher.

Something that grabbed my attention was that when switching to the rhythm channel from the lead one the gain gradually (very fast actually but still noticeable) reduces itself to what the rhythm channel's gain knob is set to.

Perhaps it would also be a good idea to swap in some new tubes.

So all in all this is a very versatile preamp and definitely a really good one. I reckon modern high gain sounds are not its forte but they are attainable with a good boost.

Now I have some questions for the more experienced users in this forum.
-Will fifty/fifty work better than the 20/20 with this preamp? Some say the EL84 are not deep enough specially for high gain tones.
-Does anyone recommend going back to the G12T-75 instead of the V30? Perhaps the G12K-100 or some other Eminence?
-This pre didn't come with the rack ears, where do I get those?

 

[j4q0]

I forgot to add that it seemed that one of the foot switch jacks at the back didn't work properly, I think it was the reverb one if I'm not mistaken.
Aside from that, the busted knobs and the jacks making those weird crackling noises the unit works well.
Where can I get new knobs? Directly from mesa?

 

[JMMP]

That mid frequency is likely what the 20/20 is giving you, NOT the studio pre. You cannot dial it out with the five band eq.
I do not think you will find a crystal clean and metal high gain at the same time with that pre. The settings just don't jive with each other. Have you read the manual? It may help you on your tone quest. To eliminate flubbiness, turn down the bass rotary know and dont use any "deep" or "bass extend" features. Fill in the bass using the lower two sliders on the graphic eq. That should help flubbiness.

In regards to the knobs, they can be sheared off easily (common problem with mark iv's I hear). You can order replacements from Mesa, and may need new pots too if they are sheared. Mesa's new pots are purposefully cut short, not damaged in the mail ;-)

The gradual change of gain instead of instant could be a sign that there are problems with it that you may want to have a tech look at, or send in to Mesa. New tubes shouldn't hurt.

I think a deep modded 20/20 would work great, and so would a 50/50. The 20/20 definitely has a different tonality going on.

What sound does the footswitch jack make?

Mesa may have the rack ears available, but I suspect that will be a harder part to get.
I would give them a call and ask all of the technical/ parts questions. The best anyone on this board can do is speculate and offer you possible solutions, whereas Mesa can offer you a true solution, genuine parts, and do it all with the best customer service I have experienced, tied with EBMM. And that's from ANY industry, not just music.

Hope it all works out!
quick recap: read the manual, lower the bass rotary knob, call mesa, enjoy the preamp!

 

[j4q0]

Thanks so much for your comments.
I did notice that keeping down the bass knob and adding the low slider in the graphic eq helped with the flubbines, still it's not as tight as modern high gain amp are.
True about not getting a crystal clean and high gain sound at the same time, as far as I've seen with the preamp in order to get that high gain the volume knob has to be set up, this will make the rhythm channel crunchy.

I'll get in touch with Mesa to inquire about the rack ears and new knobs, the pots work ok, no scratchy sounds and they are smooth and they appear to work well.

That noise from the jack of the footswitch is like a light intermittent scratchy sound that keeps going on for a bit when I connect or disconnect the plug of the footswitch, and actually if you tap the case of the preamp with your finger that scratchy sound will either keep going or cease.
It definitely needs to be serviced, I just hope it's not too costly.

...Reading the manual now

 

[j4q0]

I also have performed the deep mod on the 20/20 but it still has that mid frequency thing, it is very cool for crunchy rock tones but for high gain metal it is a bit annoying when trying to dial out that sound.

 

[Oliver_5150]

I don't consider myself an experienced user, but I'll give you my answers to your questions anyway

I use my Studio Pre with the Fifty/Fifty power amp and a 4x12 cab with G12T-75s. I am not sure what kind of mid range you are looking for, but I seem to get a nice punchy sound, with this setup. For the kind of lead I like, I try to keep the bass below 3, the mids around 5 and the treble around 7. I usually use a slight "V" on the eq, not to much. I don't cut the mid frequencies completely and don't boost the lows and highs to much.

As for the rack ears. When I bought my Studio Pre, they were also missing. So I contacted Mesa about the rack ears, but unfortunately they were out of production and didn't have any in stock. In stead I bought a two unit rack shelf, where I mounted the Studio Pre. Not the perfect solution, but I works fine and fits in my rack without problems.

 

[j4q0]

Oliver, thanks for your comments.

I recently picked up a 50/50 and after playing around for a couple of days I finally got to dial a nice tone.
I go about the same on the eq controls specially on the bass (as per suggested by some members here)
Indeed the Studio Pre has a lot of gain available and it's just a matter of exploring the knobs to find out what you want in this unit. For hi gain sounds the 50/50 definitely is a better partner than the 20/20, and the latter seems more suited for crunch tones and perhaps a jazzy clean tone.

As for the rack ears, Mesa told me they don't have these anymore and I received a negative when asking for the dimensions so I can make a my own. The rack shelf seems a good temporary solution but I do prefer to mount the unit as it was intended, so I'll have to improvise some dimensions comparing the rack ears of the 50/50 and look for somebody who can work in metal to make these.

And about the V30's, I'm very tempted to go back to them, perhaps I'll get a 2x12 with those so I can get the best of both worlds


*edit: I meant I'm very tempted to go back to G12T-75, and as for now I'm looking for a 2x12 with those

 

[illswando86]

I use a Studio Pre with an old fifty/fifty that is deep modded. The other guitarist in my band uses a Single Rect-o-verb Solo. Both of us use Mesa 4x12's. The Studio's gain is deceiving. A side by side comparison with a rectifier would make you believe that the studio doesn't have the gain to be a metal amp. However, it's a lot more focused and with the presence controls on the fifty/fifty at 5, it always sounds great in the mix. Most producers will turn gain down on amps when recording to get the same effect the studio has. Actually, the last producer I worked with even turned my studio's lead gain down to about 6. I play with it at 9 normally with volume at 8, master at 6/7, and lead master at 2/3.

 

[talltxguy]

I've ran the Studio Pre through the 20/20 and the 50/50.

The 20/20 is cool if you're running the SP on low gain settings; but when you start cranking the gain, the 20/20 is only going to mush things up when playing louder.

The SP loves the 50/50. If you're looking for metal, I have no doubt the SP can do it with the right power amp. I would recommend the deep mod for the 50/50 and even look at having a choke installed on the 50/50.

Of course, you cannot overlook pickups. When playing metal, I've always resorted to a ceramic pup in the bridge, my favorite metal pup being the Dimebucker.

And the cab...While 3/4 cabs are my personal favorite after years of trial and error, I must admit that they aren't the best choice for metal. I believe a closed-back is a must with speakers that don't break up easily and have a high sensitivity. Vintage 30s are my personal fav as I got some monsterous metal tones out of my Roadster 2X12 combo (loaded with V30s). In all fairness to V30s, I believe you can find better speakers for metal. If I played pure metal, I would find speakers with less pronouned mids.

Good luck!