STR-416 Disappointment

[Macelind]

Are STR-425 made by Sovtek as well?

Follow the link I posted above and read!

I read the info at the link and all I could glean was they were made at the Reflktor factory in Saratov, Russia. I understand that New Sensor produces Sovtek, Tungsol, Mullard, Svetlana, and Electro-Harmonix at the Expopul factory. What I'm wanting to know is are Reflektor and Expopul one and the same?

 

[Audiokill]

I believe Str-425s are indeed Sovteks. This seems to be the general consensus across the net, and their internal structures look identical to each other. And Reflektor and Expo-PUL are two names belonging to the same factory in Saratov, Russia.

 

[Audiokill]

Had a full band rehearsal a few days ago with my 415/416 setup in the C+. It was no bueno. Just didn't sound very good in the mix. Had trouble cutting through, and the tone had a sluggish, sloppy, almost rubberband-like feel to it. Then I popped in the 440s and 447s, and not only could I instantly hear myself again, but my tone improved greatly.

Afterwards, I used my friend's Weber Bias Rite to finally test the 415s and 416s along with the rest of my power tube collection. The readings that I got explained a lot. Check this out;

OUTER SOCKETS
STR-416 = 23.5 / 18.8 (Mismatched!)
STR-450 (GRY) = 14.5 / 18.3 (Poorly matched)
STR-447 (YEL) = 11.8 / 9.2 (Not great, but OK)
STR-447 (GRY) = 20.9 / 19.9 (Very good)
JJ EL34 = 9.7 / 10.5 (Very good)

STR-415 = 51.6 / 67.7 (Another mismatch! This is inexcusable. Not even in the same ballpark!)
STR-440 (RED) = 43.3 / 43.4 (Spot on!)
JJ 6L6 = 52.0 / 50.6 (Good)

INNER SOCKETS
STR-415 = 41.3 / 27.5
STR-440 (RED) = 21.3 / 21.4
JJ 6L6 = 24.2 / 25.4

So yeah, that's why my run-of-the-mill "crap tubes" all sound better than my high end ones. And just to be sure, I retested everything again through my Mark III and got similar readings.

 

[gonzo]

just this weekend, upgraded my older power tube set to some STR-440's, Yellow gauge...

REALLY LIKE THEM.


made the amp more midrange present, girthy, and articulate.
high end sweeter.....
less fizzy, just more meat.

 

[gonzo]

i may ultimately be happier with a set of winged c's...

but, right now i'm house poor, and the huge difference between the sound of the 440's and my older 420's makes me feel good about the choice.

i only paid 42 bucks for a pair of 440's...


those tubes musta been ready to crap out for a long time, and i just slowly got used to it.
the difference was night and day.

 

[gts]

Had a full band rehearsal a few days ago with my 415/416 setup in the C+. It was no bueno. Just didn't sound very good in the mix. Had trouble cutting through, and the tone had a sluggish, sloppy, almost rubberband-like feel to it. Then I popped in the 440s and 447s, and not only could I instantly hear myself again, but my tone improved greatly.

Afterwards, I used my friend's Weber Bias Rite to finally test the 415s and 416s along with the rest of my power tube collection. The readings that I got explained a lot. Check this out;

OUTER SOCKETS
STR-416 = 23.5 / 18.8 (Mismatched!)

So yeah, that's why my run-of-the-mill "crap tubes" all sound better than my high end ones. And just to be sure, I retested everything again through my Mark III and got similar readings.

I'd return them to that ebay seller.
He claimed they were matched and even gave test readings at 500V.
His equipment must need to be calibrated.

 

[Audiokill]

The 416s and the 415s have both been returned. Since then, I picked up a closely matched pair of 442s and a not-so-well-matched pair of 450s. The 450s are only marginally sweeter than the 447s, and the 442s are even less of an improvement. Neither pair has made a night and day difference, tone-wise. A rather fruitless venture, overall. I think I'm over experimenting with power tubes for a while.:| I achieved far more dramatic results when I went through my preamp toobz party phase...

...oh, why not....I'll share my findings/opinions with some 12ax7s I've tried....just in case anyone actually cares :wink:. For my C+'s preamp section, this is the best sounding lineup I've found thus far;

V1 = Telefunken ribbed plate (compared to all my other 12ax7s ---> somewhat decreased gain, bigger and more focused low end, increased aggression, great articulation, better tone...my favorite tube purchase ever, wish I had more...surprised I haven't seen anyone on here boasting about Telefunkens in their preamp sections)

V2, V3, V4 = Mesa Russian 2 (EH/Tungsol reissues...these have a bold punchy feel, not too gainy, and they maintain articulation very well)

V5 = Mesa Chinese square getter (these also sound great in my Mark III's V3 and V4 with Russian 2s for everything else)

Toobz that didn't make the cut = JJ, Sovtek WA, GT Chinese halo getter, Sovtek LPS (not even for V5), RCA black plate, and Tungsram (I see that a lot of blokes here really like Tungsrams in their Marks. Despite their rich beautiful swirly overtones, though, I find Tungsrams to be inarticulate and lacking in punch with Marks. Sounds better in my Chupacabra).

 

[DJPattP]

Thats funny because my MKIII came with a Telefunken Smooth plate and thats to only tube I will ever use. I have two spares now. I use the Chinese OEM tubes in all other sockets.

As for the STR-416's?? I purchased a set from some dude that got rid of his MKIII so guess what? I scooped the whole OEM set for $35. The 6L6's are a little squelly but all I use is the Class A mode. I have two sets now.

The STR-416's are absolutely amazing! I have had nothing bad to say about them. The gain that they produce is unreal and still to this day is the best I have heard from any plug n play amp(i don't use pedals!)

I run a Custom Shop LP directly into the Mark III. I find that to get the optimal sound you have to change the strings more than often. The whole setup sounds amazing but as soon as the strings go, it sounds like your description of the tubes.

Try wiring up your guitar and get another good set and ROCK ON

 

[Audiokill]

Glad your 416s work for you. I don't think my problem was with the strings, though. I really gave the 416s a fair shot. Perhaps if they were properly matched, things may have been different.

 

[kippiejr]

Another thing to consider is the mA's of the tubes them selves. I cant remember if you mentioned if they where MESA labels. I have noticed that most of my MESA branded 415's and 416's run in the 28-38 mA's range. 50-60 is too hot for Mesa... Mesa Amp like them colder. Clean power section with no cross over distortion. Let the preamp section do its job..

I agree with your 415 and 416 combo.... I have ran into the same hearing issues.

I prefer 415's or 7581A's in middle and Winged =C= EL 34 out side....

or even better 7581A's all four.. good luck finding a quad of those.

Preamp.. Any tube that actually reads 100 in gain factor sounds awesome any brand... You would be surprised how many are 80-95....I have yet to find or buy a EH, tungsol re-issue that hits 100 on my tester... NOS hardly ever.......

Grab some MESA SPA's They mostly come in HOT! V1 and gain stages..

 

[Audiokill]

Another thing to consider is the mA's of the tubes them selves. I cant remember if you mentioned if they where MESA labels. I have noticed that most of my MESA branded 415's and 416's run in the 28-38 mA's range. 50-60 is too hot for Mesa... Mesa Amp like them colder. Clean power section with no cross over distortion. Let the preamp section do its job..

I agree with your 415 and 416 combo.... I have ran into the same hearing issues.

I prefer 415's or 7581A's in middle and Winged =C= EL 34 out side....

or even better 7581A's all four.. good luck finding a quad of those.

Preamp.. Any tube that actually reads 100 in gain factor sounds awesome any brand... You would be surprised how many are 80-95....I have yet to find or buy a EH, tungsol re-issue that hits 100 on my tester... NOS hardly ever.......

Grab some MESA SPA's They mostly come in HOT! V1 and gain stages..

They were indeed Mesa labeled Str-415s & 416s. Interesting that you say the mA of these tubes should be in the 28-38 range. That has not been my experience at all. I've seen the bias measurements of a few Mesa 415s, and they all seem to fall more within 48-58mA.

(Edit: I take back what I said here. You're totally right about the mA needing to be in the 28-38 range. The pair of 415s I just bought measure in at 30.6mA and 31.3mA. They sound great, too!)

I'm not familiar with the preamp tube gain factor rating scale you're referring to, but for me, the undisputed champ in the C+'s V1 is the Telefunken ribbed plate. It is a bit lower in gain than a lot of other 12ax7s, but it has this incredible bite to it that compliments the C+'s tone extremely well. I've also started using the NOS Chinese square getter tubes in V3 and am very pleased with the results. I tried the SPAs and didn't really dig them in any position. Later on, I found out why. I cut off the rubber wrapping from around the glass of one of them to inspect the plate structure. Found out that all an SPA is is a current production Chinese 12ax7 wrapped in rubber insolation. Exactly the same as a GT 12ax7c. Not a tube I've ever really been crazy about in any amp I've heard them in.

So you don't like the 415/416 combo, huh? Do you like the 416s in class A by themselves or in combination with any other tube? I ask because I'm currently embarking on the 415/416 taste test for a 2nd time. I recently pulled the trigger on another pair of 415s and 416s from eBay that are allegedly "closely matched". We shall see. I really want to hear how these tubes sound when properly matched. First impressions of the 415s in combination with Str-450s so far are good. More low mids perceived than with the 440s. Waiting for the 416s to arrive. Let round 2 begin!

 

[Audiokill]

I just purchased another pair of Mesa STR-416s. Upon measuring their bias, I got these readings; 10.5mA and 15.4mA. As a side note, the 415s I got sound really good and are matched within 1 mA of each other. Keeping those for sure.

I paid $150 for the pair of 416s. The tone is ok, but I'm definitely not creaming my jeans over the sound. Underwhelmed would be the word. The ebayer advertised them as matched, but he used a tester that only provides measurements in a generic scale (similar to Groove Tubes) that ranges 1 through 14. His readings were 9 and 10.

So my question is... Is a difference of almost 5mA acceptable between a matched pair? Where is the line drawn? Would my 416s sound just as good as another pair that is more closely matched?

P.S. Anyone who offers me the "favor" of "disposing" these tubes for me shall have them shoved up Uranus and then take an arrow to the knee (see what I did there? :wink.
It's been done to death. Resist the urge. This means you, Joey B.

 

[JOEY B.]

P.S. Anyone who offers me the "favor" of "disposing" these tubes for me shall have them shoved up Uranus and then take an arrow to the knee (see what I did there? :wink.
It's been done to death. Resist the urge. This means you, Joey B.

Don't be so thin-skinned, it's all in good humor. We have all blown money out a wild hog's *** chasing tone. NOW, to the real issue at hand. I have a few alleged matched pairs of these tubes. I have installed them in MESA Electra Dyne, Royal Atlantic, Mark IIC+ and Mark III Simulclass amps. In different amps, the same "matched" pairs were not the ideal current draw to each other. In other words, it's a complete crapshoot buying the STR-416's. I would look at the current draw difference in percentage versus actual mA. That is to say 15mA/10mA is a 33% difference in idle current draw. See what I mean?

The other thing is the type of music that is trying to be played. If you are more into the tight rhythm metal sound, then the 416's may be the wrong choice altogether. The low frequencies are a bit more "fat and round" compared to the traditional EL-34 tube. Hope this helps. 8)

 

[Audiokill]

Makes sense. In that case, I'll have to measure their bias in my Mark III. So then at what point would you say that a pair of tubes are matched in a given amp? Within 25% difference? 15%? Where do you draw the line?
Oh, and don't worry about my previous comment that involved Uranus and arrows to the knee. I was just being facetious and merely poking fun at you...poor attempt at humor on my part that didn't translate though text, I guess.

 

[JOEY B.]

Read this page about power tube matching http://www.eurotubes.com/eurotubes-testing-misc-info-warranty.htm

The variable voltage is the only way that a pair of tubes can be matched to YOUR particular amp (If the plate and bias voltages are known).

I try to come close to the 10% mA factor when matching pairs of STR-416 power tubes.

 

[kippiejr]

Look at the tube next to it. In Simulclass they are a Push Pull config. You can change the mA of the 416 slightly by changing the 415 next to it. And with a lot of luck you can get equal mA's across the board. You will need several pairs of 415 and 416 to do this. :lol: :lol: But Why? just use your ears!