So I'm saving for a Mark III..(info needed - 'right' buy?)

[Thrashman]

So I've pretty much decided to save for a Mark III head.

Main reason being Mark IV heads being like 2-3times as expensive, and I don't use alot of clean, just crushing gain.

Also due to the fact/rumour that the lead channel is the same on both the Mark III, and IV.

I was told to get a simul-class head too, but what is simul-class really, and what does it do? :?

What else should i look for?

thanks in advance
Chris

 

[Platypus]

1) The Mark III and IV lead channels are not the same. The Mark III is more uncompressed and bright. The Mark IV has a darker/smoother compressed lead. Both are 'boogie lead' but it's worth noting that they are not the same.

2) Simul-Class essentially runs the outer tube pair in Class A mode (lots of info on google about amp power) and runs the inner pair in Class A/B mode, combining the two. It allows you to also run EL34 tubes in the outer sockets and 6L6's in the inner ones instead of 4 6L6s. In Class A mode, only the outer tubes are on.

The Mark III had a lot of different revisions to it indicated by different colored stripes (or sometimes dots or sometimes nothing) each with their own differences. There is a list of these different stripes:

(lifted from http://homepage.mac.com/mesaboogie/dot.html)
In order, the stripes were:

None or Black Stripe
Purple Stripe
Red Stripe
Blue Stripe
Green Stripe

As with all things MESA, what these various stages represent are a matter of opinion with respect of the sound character. Don't let anyone pass on a bunch of bullshit about one being better than the other. They represent snapshots in time of the development of an amplifier line. If the amplifier gets you the tone you want, the jiffy marker is nothing more than a mark of its vintage. Much anxiety is generated in the Mark III group by this extensive evolution, much because of misinformation about what these stripes represent.

#1 - No mark or a little dot. Only a few hundred then some black marks or "+"'s .

- Lean and powerful amp with more output power than a IIC+

#2 - Purple: reshaping of R2

- R2 was shaped to be more "rounded" and less gain, with improved level

#3 - Red: R2 is like current Mark III

- R2 further developed and very hot. Lead mode is also tweaked to close in on the IIC+ sound

#4 - Blue: Reshaping of R1

- More aggressive preamp gain - reshaping of R1, Power section made akin to IIC+

#5 - Green/Simul-Class: Final R1 and Lead Channel reshaping

- Cleaner R1, Lead channel reshaping, and unlike other Simul amps, these Mark III's were wired in Pentode - NOT triode in the Class A sockets for more power. Power section is same as Blue otherwise.




Hope that helps.

 

[MrMarkIII]

So I've pretty much decided to save for a Mark III head.

Main reason being Mark IV heads being like 2-3times as expensive, and I don't use alot of clean, just crushing gain.

Also due to the fact/rumour that the lead channel is the same on both the Mark III, and IV.

I was told to get a simul-class head too, but what is simul-class really, and what does it do? :?

What else should i look for?

thanks in advance
Chris

A lot of people think the Mark III Lead Channel is quite a bit more aggressive than the IV.
Yes, they are a bargain compared to IVs. And unless you need those 20 extra knobs and the quirky foot switch, the Mk III is easier to dial in.
"Simul-Class" means you can mix two EL-34 with two 6L6 power tubes to get the Marshally mids (EL-34) and the tight Fendery lows (6L6). Total wattage is 75/85, depending on how old the version.
You might be able to find a "60/100" model, which uses only 6L6s, and goes to 100 watts, switchable down to 60.
Most will recommend the Graphic EQ option, for "crushing", scooped-mids sounds.

 

[Thrashman]

Oh, I see.

But is the greenstripe the onlyone that has the simulclass then? Or is it random, and you have to check the back of the head tomake sure?

Hmm, I favourise Lamb of God and their guitar tones. They use mark IV's, but i suppose i should be able to nail a similar tone with the III, correct? The difference cant be THAT! big..Or I hope it isn't.

 

[MrMarkIII]

The green stripe was just the last version, all the stripes can be Simul-Class.
On a combo, or short head, look for a toggle switch on the far right back panel. It will be labeled "Class A/Simul-Class".
On a long head, the switch may be on the front because there is more room. This front switch may be labeled "Full/Half Power", but is most probably Simul-Class.
It's important to remember that a Mark III (of any stripe) can be Simul-Class, OR it can be "60/100 watts", but NEVER both.

 

[Thrashman]

Thanks

But all in all, the Mark III and IV's difference in the lead is that the IV is more compressed and dark compared to the III, while the Mark III is "more raw and agressive, and open" compared to the IV??

Am I right?

 

[Platypus]

Thanks

But all in all, the Mark III and IV's difference in the lead is that the IV is more compressed and dark compared to the III, while the Mark III is "more raw and agressive, and open" compared to the IV??

Am I right?

Yes but I wouldn't call the Mark IV dark, just darker than the III. The lead channels are different enough that I think it warrants you playing one before deciding.. buying without hearing is not good for chasing tones like you mentioned.

 

[Thrashman]

I totally agree, even if the sad, sad truth is that I won't be able to try either.

That said I probably should get an IV, but that's adding 600 or so, when I could get the "same" sound from the III

We'll see how this unfolds, I thank you all for the education

 

[kingstonrecords]

Mark III's are great but if you do alot of channel changing, get the Mark IV. mark III's I find best if you use a stomp box for your distortion. The versitility is lacking with the Mark III. Not to say the distortion and lead channels don't sound good, you just can't go from one to the other without fidgeting, that's all. Also, 4 6l6's are the key. If you use the el 34's in the outer sockets, it sound much too thin for my taste. howver, only use Boogie tubes if you use 4 6l6's. Most other tubes are too hot and you can get some strange unwanted sounds.

 

[Thrashman]

I'm not a clean player I turn down my volume knob and turn off my overdrive pedal if i want clean So that Won't be a problem! Thanks

 

[tony777]

Buy one, and if you don't like it, sell it.

You won't lose money, only gain experience.

 

[Thrashman]

True that

Are some Mark III lead channels just like the IIC(+)'s? If so how do I spot them? I don't want "a lesser gain top" than what I'm out for.

I've looked up on the III's and this question keeps occuring to me. :?

 

[tony777]

I think all Mark III's have more gain than the C+.
My black stripe definitely has more gain than my C+'s
So if that's slowing you down, you don't have to worry anymore.

 

[Thrashman]

Hehe thanks again

Only thing slowing me down is the time it takes to sell my current gear! and also finding a seller so I know how much money it is that I will need :?

Anyway, yeah, I had to make sure, I read up alot on the III's and it seems that the transition between the production of the IIC(+), and the III, that the onyl difference was that extra crunch channel, until a while into the production of the III, but thats probably just me being overly careful :mrgreen:

 

[tony777]

There is a slightly different voicing between the IIC+ and the III, but it's not as big as IIC+ vs IV or III vs IV.
But all them sound f**cking great, just a little different.

 

[DiablosRising]

True that

Are some Mark III lead channels just like the IIC(+)'s? If so how do I spot them? I don't want "a lesser gain top" than what I'm out for.

I've looked up on the III's and this question keeps occuring to me. :?

Hello! This is my first post here, as I just got my first Boogie on Friday(Mark III 1x12, simulclass, red stripe).

I had the same concern, Thrashman, that you had about the amount of gain on tap, and let me tell you, there is more gain in my Mark III that I could ever conceive to need.

I was previously using a Randall RG80es head with a ZW44 overdrive boosting the front, and I don't think I'll ever have any use for that pedal with this amp.

Like you, I mostly play heavy stuff. I do use the clean channel, but it's not as difficult to dial in a useable clean while keeping your Lead channel how you want it. I switch to my neck pickup and tone down my picking dynamics, and it stays clean even with the volume on 8.

Just keep the bass knob dialed back A LOT(mine is off), and get used to little eq knob tweaks effecting the amount of preamp gain that's coming through.

I'm still dialing in mine, but if that chunky, scooped Boogie sound is what you hear in your head, the Mark III can deliver that. It can be easily dialed in to be overly bright. I'm running the presence knob off.

Hope this helps! Keep thrashing!