Should Mesa Boogie reissue the Mark IIC+ ?

[woodbutcher65]

My Blue Stripe DRG Mark III gets "close enough" for me for the IIC+ tone, and its aggression and harmonic richness outclasses even my Mark V in the Extreme mode. The Blue Stripe is simply the most brutal and FUN amp to play I've ever plugged a guitar into, without exception.

Going back a few pages regarding components....if they measure the same values, they'll sound the same. Pick two capacitors with exact measured values of .0022 uF with a calibrated precision meter, which have the same ESR readings as well, and they're going to sound exactly the same in the same circuit. It can be proven by running a Bode plot with each component installed in turn in the circuit. It WILL NOT show any difference in frequency response. With equipment that can measure it to a level of sensitivity and precision your ears can't match.
If the values are slightly different, the frequency response will change slightly. That matters FAR more than variances in component fabrication parameters as long as the values remain the same. Is that coupling cap a Panasonic or a CDE Orange Drop? If its values are the same (Capacitance and ESR both) then they'll sound the same. Even an old Philips Mustard cap, with the same values, is going to sound the same. This isn't magic, it's not smoke and mirrors, it's applied science.

 

[user 41014]

So I just learned that 20% variances in all the components won't make a difference at all but if those values are slightly different the freq response changes. Hmmm

And regardless of the material all coupling caps will sound the same. To think people chase paper in oil and esoteric solutions when they can just stick any cap (and any voltage based on previous posts) in their super leads or what have you. The all sound the same! Are all women the same too?

I feel so smart all of the sudden

 

[Joey1970]

I chose the reverse approach, and outfitted a 2C+ with RFT and Tungsram pre's, Sylvania power tubes, and EVM-12L speakers. In various cabinets. Then tuned my guitar(1973 Gibson LP Deluxe routed for full size HB pickups) around that setup. Just a different approach, I guess.

 

[gts]

You guys are nuts

 

[Wyzard]

they did
v90, jp & or 7
and they all destroy the old cheap shitboxes you all love to “word worship” with phrases like “mid honk” & “vintage feel”
its called dial the amp, stop typing and get a proper right hand

C+ in house against all 3 ^ daily

i dont miss it when its off. its cool for “that thing” & has a touch more jump on the feel but…

-yeah the JP destroys it gainwise
-the v90 crushes any c+ or mark amp before it in Extreme mode for “that”
-the 7 is a perfect c+ sound AND feel regarding all that, they got it 100%

why u think C+, 3, & 4 prices are falling now below retail 7 new? because the 7 made it MOOT

have fun clinging to those ghosts and pumping vintage amp prices hoping the guys that made em retire or die. disgusting.

I'm going to politely disagree with some of this. From a "gain" perspective, yes - a number of the newer boxes will out-smush my various IIAs, Coli IIB and IIC+. Not one of the post-MkIVs sound/feel remotely as good IME, however, at the somewhat lower gain levels I use all the time; and least of all the MkV. The VII comes closest, but still doesn't get me hot to purchase.


I've owned many examples of As, Bs and C+s, as well as (IIRC) fourteen MKIIIs (all the IIIs are long gone....) and they do vary quite a lot (though the IIIs tend to vary somewhat less). Years of use, abuse and just plain old build variability contributed to better and less-better outcomes after many decades. I kept the best-sounding examples that I found.

I've compared Mesa's latest products against all of them, and still haven't felt the need to buy anything (other than yet another King Snake).

 

[FedWar]

I'm going to politely disagree with some of this. From a "gain" perspective, yes - a number of the newer boxes will out-smush my various IIAs, Coli IIB and IIC+. Not one of the post-MkIVs sound/feel remotely as good IME, however, at the somewhat lower gain levels I use all the time; and least of all the MkV. The VII comes closest, but still doesn't get me hot to purchase.


I've owned many examples of As, Bs and C+s, as well as (IIRC) fourteen MKIIIs (all the IIIs are long gone....) and they do vary quite a lot (though the IIIs tend to vary somewhat less). Years of use, abuse and just plain old build variability contributed to better and less-better outcomes after many decades. I kept the best-sounding examples that I found.

I've compared Mesa's latest products against all of them, and still haven't felt the need to buy anything (other than yet another King Snake).

Agreed. Mark I, mark IIb loop modded, mark iic+ all have that 3d sound and feel that the newer don't have. Quad +295 is another fine amp and maybe a mark iv rev A.
Problem is that you need to play it before believing.

 

[GJgo]

Thought you guys might enjoy this vid I put together.

 

[rarebitusa]

Cool... not that surprising that the Mark IVb stands apart from the other IIC variants.

 

[Wyzard]

I've always said I love it, maybe even more than my IIC+, but I'm in curious about my Coli - to the extent of what it qualifies as: modded IIB, IIC or .....what? Not to mention, what the factory may have done to it (subsequent to its manufacture), and on whose behalf.

Naturally I'm wondering who may have used it before I got my mitts on it...........any ideas, anyone? In any event, it's s/n 299, it has the two-tube PI mini-circuit (buffer and actual PI respectively), no limiter circuit, and it's got an SP11A board in it. So I'm going to send it back to base and get them to poke it with a stick. This may take some time......

 

[modder]

Rather than reissuing the Mark IIC+ I'd rather they made the opposite of the Mark VII and V. Rather than make a swiss army knife, make a new Mark head designed with high gain as the only goal. If there are going to be lots of switches, have them be voicing switches.

The Mark IIC+ sounds phenomenal but I don't believe for a second it's the highest possible pinnacle of distorted tone. The best so far maybe.

 

[Darkstar2]

Rather than reissuing the Mark IIC+ I'd rather they made the opposite of the Mark VII and V. Rather than make a swiss army knife, make a new Mark head designed with high gain as the only goal. If there are going to be lots of switches, have them be voicing switches.

The Mark IIC+ sounds phenomenal but I don't believe for a second it's the highest possible pinnacle of distorted tone. The best so far maybe.

I'm pretty sure you just described the JP2C...

 

[Chronomariner]

Since Gibson owns Mesa Boogie, maybe they will make it happen. Considering they do reissues of old popular guitars.
Maybe an old amp is next in the future.

On the other hand, there are more potential buyers for guitars than tube amps.

 

[modder]

I'm pretty sure you just described the JP2C...

Point taken but the JP2C has 33 switches, knobs and sliders on the front plate alone, I mean something simpler than a IIC+.

 

[Darkstar2]

Point taken but the JP2C has 33 switches, knobs and sliders on the front plate alone, I mean something simpler than a IIC+.

OK, point taken

 

[SonVolt]

Rather than reissuing the Mark IIC+ I'd rather they made the opposite of the Mark VII and V. Rather than make a swiss army knife, make a new Mark head designed with high gain as the only goal. If there are going to be lots of switches, have them be voicing switches.

The Mark IIC+ sounds phenomenal but I don't believe for a second it's the highest possible pinnacle of distorted tone. The best so far maybe.

Agreed. All the "in-between" tones of my Mark amps are just lesser versions of the lead channel. None wow me enough to ever use them. In fact, all they do is piss me off and make me wish I was playing a real Marshall, Fender etc.

 

[sloanthebone]

A couple threads over on Rig-Talk say the IIc+ is confirmed and pictures have been seen (prototype looks like original) along with another reissue coming - DR Rev G. Also rumors Randall is no longer with Mesa. Anyone else hearing any of this outside RT? Fun, fun.

 

[Chronomariner]

A couple threads over on RT say the IIc+ is confirmed and pictures have been seen (prototype looks like original) along with another reissue coming - DR Rev G. Also rumors Randall is no longer with Mesa. Fun, fun.

RT?

 

[sloanthebone]

RT?

Rig-talk - updated in original post