SED Tube Roll

[TremoJem]

I took the plunge and purchased SED 6L6s.

I have two Tremoverbs.

One has VOS Mesa Tubes (420 or 430) in it with new Mesa preamp tubes in as well.

The other has new SED Winged =C= 6L6s in it with new Mesa preamp tubes in as well.

I have read and been told that the SED tubes will require a break in or warm up period before producing excellent results.

I will say this about initial start up:

The Mesa 6L6s sounded great right off the bat.

The Winged =C= sounded lifeless and drab right off the bat.

In closing the SEDs are starting to warm up.

It is my belief that once I hit around 20 hours of real playing with the them they will be amazing, as I am currently only sitting at about two half hour sessions...I will report my findings.

Thanks to Robert Hull at TubeDepot for all of his help and this is still ongoing.

 

[TremoJem]

Another 30 minutes and still not impressed.

 

[J.J]

Sorry to say, but it sounds like you just don't like these tubes. Mine would have around 100 hours and I don't think they have changed all that much.

I really do hope they start to work for you.

Brings me to mention, I hate all the terms people use like smooth, stiff, warm, dark and gritty. They always seem to mean different things from one person to the next.

Just a thought, but the stock Mesa preamp tubes do sound a bit lifeless and sterile to me (assuming we are on the same page with the terms). The SED =C= will not be colouring your tone any where near as much as the 440's. A good part of what you are not liking may be the preamp tubes. I know thats not really helpfull sending you on a pre amp tube tone chase, but a swap of V1 to something like a Tung-sol RI or the warmer Mullard RI or anything else you like could be what you need to make it all work.

One thing that worked for me was a JJ long plate tube in the phase splitter of all places and it really warmed up my Express 5:25.

 

[TremoJem]

I understand your thoughts on the Mesa preamp tubes.

I like the ability to be able to compare one against the other and having two identical amps helps in this process.

I can say that all things being equal except the output tubes, the Mesa preamp tubes sound better with the 440s/430s from Mesa than they do with the =C=.

The strings feel stiff or tight with the =C= compared with the Mesa output tubes.

There seems to be more low end with the Mesa output tubes.

It feels and sounds more vintage with the Mesa output tubes.

Again, this is all relative and there are many variables between both amps all be it they are the same.

A good test would be to swap the =C= into the other amp and see what happens.

I will and post a report.

By the way I have considered the V1 position and PI with regards to an upgrade in preamp tubes for those positions.

I just want to get settled in on the output tubes first or at least allow for a little more time with them before I move in that direction.

I don't like making changes all at once as this confuses the issue and makes for a difficult time in pursuing root causes for good and bad scenarios.

For example I modded my loop to serial from parallel and wonder if I actually like it or not.

I did this based on timed based rack effects that I use (TC Electronic GMajor).

After performing this mod and using it for months I concluded that I gained nothing in that mod.

I might have even lost some great tone.

A parallel loop allows for a portion of the original preamp signal to go straight to the output stage while mixing the respective remaining portion of the A/D-D/A signal from the FX to the output stage.

A series loop takes all of my analog preamp signal thru the FX A/D-D/A and then to the output stage.

I don't know how this could be good for tone.

Maybe I am thinking too much about this and not actually letting my ears hear what is there without first distracting them with these negative thoughts.

I will probably restore on of the amps to a parallel and compare the two.

Well, thanks for your input and we are on the same page, just reading similar but different books.

I will keep you posted on my results.

Don't let engineering get in the way of creativity...LOL

 

[TremoJem]

O.K. so last night the =C= really sounded good.

Better tone and more open and articulate.

I am working on the damn unity gain thing so I need to remove that from the equation to make all things equal to really get a good comparison, but it looks like the =C= are in the lead.

 

[J.J]

I just remembered that Doug does a burn in for around 24 hours for his tubes, so maybe they do need some time to settle. That would also explain why I didn't notice much change as they were pre aged for me. Does the shop you got yours from do the burn in run ?

 

[TremoJem]

I don't think so.

Pay extra for it I believe and they said it was not worth it.

 

[SonicProvocateur]

On the subject of all this SED stuff.

I now have a pair of sweet Sylvania's in my Mark. It is the most amazing rhythm tone ever. Sounds just like the "Lines in the Sand" tone. I've got a spare set to boot for the future, and they act like I'm not even TRYING to push power at them.

However, the sweetest tubes I ever used were some regular run of the mill Electro-Harmonix's. One seemed to run hot and the other cold, then it blew the tube and a screen grid (but previous owner had the same problem). Best tone I've ever had out of my 60 watt non-EQ.

This said, I doubt I will buy SED's. If anything, i'll go back to cheap russian tubes and keep blowing them up. :lol:

 

[TremoJem]

Interesting, aren't SEDs Russian?

I like Russian output tubes too.

 

[mesaboogie6L6]

St. Petersburg

 

[TremoJem]

O.K. so I have the =C= 6L6s in my one Tremoverb, and it gets better sounding everyday...really! I have only about 20 hours on them. Robert Hull from TubeDepot says that the closer I get to 100 hours the better and then they will burned in or broken in. SWEET!

I just ordered the =C= SVEL34s for my second Tremoverb. I expect I will be happy with these too.

I also ordered Tung-Sol 12AX7 New Production for my V1 position.

And, I also ordered 12AT7WC JAN Philips for my V6 position.

I will also try the Tung-Sol in one amp in positions V1 and V2 just for giggles.

I can't wait as I am very new to this "rolling" tubes thingy.

I will report my findings.

Thanks goes out to all you members for your informative posts and answers to my queries.

Special thanks goes out to Robert Hull from TubeDepot for all of his patience, great information and support of my efforts and eagerness to understand in a few weeks what took him and many of you years to understand and I am still learning.

Best to you all and I will keep you updated.

 

[espboogie123]

Yes, the wing c's need a little break in. I've never known anybody who just didn't like em. I have the winged C 6L6s in my roadster and winged C EL34s for backup. The 34s give a bolder output focusing in mid range. I primarily used winged C 34s in all my amps until I started using my roadster. I like the 6l6s a bit better for the roadster. Another possible difference that might occur with your mesa tubes and the =C= tubes are bias points. The mesa tubes could be running warmer than the SED tubes or visa versa. Either way, it looks like you're starting to hear the sweet success of the Winged C. :wink:

 

[Jackie]

What in hell is "break in" for tubes?

I understand you have to break in a speaker since it has moving parts made from a material that softens through use, but what exactly happens when a tube "breaks in"? :?
Don't they get some burnage at the factory too?

I'm not questioning what you're hearing it's just that I don't see how a tube would benefit from "burning in" (which part of the tube and why).

 

[espboogie123]

I like to think that the "break in" mainly a mental thing and is there for peace of mind. The "burn in" is to check for possible tube failures. If the tube endures a 24+ hour burn in, then the tube is good to go. Some dealers do this to keep failed tubes and returns to a minimum.

 

[Jackie]

I like to think that the "break in" mainly a mental thing and is there for peace of mind. The "burn in" is to check for possible tube failures. If the tube endures a 24+ hour burn in, then the tube is good to go. Some dealers do this to keep failed tubes and returns to a minimum.

That I can understand, yeah. On with the topic.

BTW =C= tubes rock in my opinion!

 

[swbo101]

I have a 6L6/EL34 =C= in my Mark IV and really like them alot. They are a bit pricy for new production though. Still it's like someone removed a blanket off my speakers. Much clearer sound. I'd like to try all 6L6's in my amp, but just need to scrape up some cash first. I've bought serveral tubes lately (nothing great), and these were the best.

 

[RussB]

What's this talk about SED tubes requiring some sort of break-in period? Where did that myth originate?

I've installed many SED 6L6's and EL34's in my amps, and the amps of many of my customers. I have never heard them "break-in" or had anyone make such claims to me. Consider me perplexed? :?

 

[J.J]

I suspect it has more to do with ears than tubes. User break in. If I play a Strat all week and then pick up a Les Paul, the LP never seems to sound right again for days. Then the Strat sounds off until I get used to it again.

I noticed a massive difference changing from Mesa 6l6 to SED, but have not heard any change in those tubes after 150 hours. I am going to get a spare set soon and will compare the brand new ones with my used set to see if they have changed or not. I am betting not.

 

[TremoJem]

I am just a newbie and don't claim to really know what the hell I am talking about.

I was told to expect a break in period. I was also told that at about 100 hours the SED 6L6s would blow me away.

Being a newbie might have something to do with me being easily influenced by others that I presume to be knowledgeable about the subject, so maybe that plays a lot into the mix.

My findings are what they are, and I stand by that.

My new SED 6L6s have about 22 hours on them and they really are sounding nice.

My even newer SED EL34s have about 2 hours on them and they are incredible sounding already...GO FIGURE.

I wish I could trade the 6L6s for another set of the EL34s.

Oh well.

I have two Tremoverbs that I run these in.

Sorry if my ears and experience with rolling tubes are not up to par.

 

[swbo101]

The only thing I can think about, when people talk about a "break in" period for tubes is, The excess gases in the tubes. I'm sure I read somewhere that during that period the gas excess gets burned off resulting in a different sound. That's what I've read, can't say if it's true or not.