Running Lonestars (Classic, Special) in stereo

[egkor]

Here is the "Running Lonestars in Stereo" topic in its own thread, brought out of the "Pig Pictures" thread. Please let's continue the Lone Star Stereo discussion here.

Here are cut 'n pastes of the "stereo" posts from the "Pig Pictures" thread:

I bought the LSC used at a local GC probably two years ago +/-. I liked this one because of its color scheme.
I have 2 of those 1x12 C90 Mesa ext. cabs. I want to try stereo delay, but I have to learn what to do to accomplish that.
-Gary K

Hey Gary...
You need 2 amps to do the stereo delay thing. One output of the stereo delay goes to one amp, the other output goes to the second amp. The spacing of the 2 amps is key, so experiment with different spacings depending on the room or stage. Having 2 amps can cause phasing issues, but moving the amp around a bit usually solves that for the most part. -Danny

Thanks! I have the 2 1x12 ext. cabs. I have a Boss DD-6 stereo delay pedal. I was thinking I need a 2 channel power amp. What is the signal that is the input to the DD-6, is it from the Slave Out of the LSC?

Is this the idea/path: Guitar -> LSC Guitar In -> LSC Slave Out -> DD6 Mono In -> DD-6 Left Out -> Power Amp Left In, DD-6 Right Out -> Power Amp Right In (then of course Power Amp speaker outs to L/R 1x12 cabs)?

I would not use the slave out for this purpose. (Although I may be wrong) I would use the LSC completely for one side to get the best tone and then send the other side to the power amp. If you use the delay in the loop on the LSC, then you'll get the preamp warmth sent to the other amp, which I presume is solidstate. Of course there's the concern of running one side of the power amp and not the other. Who cares, rotate back and forth. Ha ha. Bridging the power amp can solve that problem if you can bridge at no lower than 4 ohms.

Hey Gary, yeah, you might want to ask around a bit more on that one. I'm afraid I don't know the answer. I've been playing around with stereo setups for a while know, but it has been exclusively using 2 guitar amps. I haven't tried using the slave out yet. Cheers, Danny

Don't forget that you need to maintain a load on your LSC or you'll blow your output transformer....

The way I'd suggest doing it is using the LSC head as per normal, with the delay in the loop. Then, buy a second, relatively inexpensive head (unless you have money to burn, then buy whatever you want ), and run the stereo delays second output into the FX loop return of the second head. Make sure that both heads are hooked up to a cab, and you're off to the races.

It's semi important that you choose a second amp that has an effects loop since you'll be bypassing the preamp on the second amp. I say semi important, because if you choose something like a Fender Twin as your second amp you could probably get away with running it direct in the front, you just have to keep the Fender's gain turned pretty low.

This route will be easier than the stereo power amp route.

And before I go, you can't connect your slave out to a delay, then feed that delay back into the effects loop return of the same amp.... it'll cause a feedback loop. You need to use the FX loop send.

 

[egkor]

Thanks again to all for your help with this topic.

I'm trying to accomplish a "stereo delay" type effect.

My initial visualization of this was from seeing (in a different topic) another poster having a Lonestar combo, 2 1x12 cabs, and just needing a Mesa 20/20 power amp to accomplish "stereo". But they did not explain how they were going to accomplish this. I have 2 1x12 Mesa ext. cabs, and I want to use them like I saw in the original post. All I would need is a power amp.

I have a LSC 50/100 1x12 (C90) combo, 2 Mesa 1x12 C90 3/4 back ext. cabs, and a Boss DD-6 delay, capable of stereo. I was thinking all I need to do is find a 2 channel power amp, solid state, to drive the 2 1x12 ext. cabs. However, I don't know a good/best way to do the wiring and configuration.

I visualized using the Lonestar "Slave Out" to drive the effects. My idea was was that this would leave the LSC combo tone "dry" and unaffected. The LSC "Slave Out" signal would go to one (or two!) delay unit(s), then on to the power amps and speakers, being the "wet" Left and Right delay effects. I did not intend to bring the signal back into the LSC. The problem here is that the "Slave Out" does not seem to be a good choice for the "wet" processing signal.

From the posts (replies) that have come in (listed in first post), in particular from "Screamingdaisy", I have a new and improved idea:

Put the delay(s) in the LSC effects loop. Let the original signal just "pass through" the delays, and back into the LSC, so that the LSC still outputs the original unaffected "dry" signal. Take the delayed "wet" signal(s) off the delay(s) and route those to the power amp L/R, or guitar amp(s) "Effects Loop In".

I have a Peavy Classic 30 1x12 tube amp with a effects loop. I will try the LSC Effects Loop delay configuration, LSC=non-delayed "dry" signal", and output the DD-6 (delayed "wet" signal) into the C30's Effects Loop In.

This gives me a great starting point (Stage 1). If this works out, I could later (Stage 2!) go to a second daisy-chained delay in the LSC FX loop, a power amp, and the 2 1x12 ext. cabs instead of the Peavy C30.

Thanks again to all who gave me these ideas! I will try it (Stage 1) and report back.

-Gary K

 

[screamingdaisy]

I visualized using the Lonestar "Slave Out" to drive the effects. My idea was was that this would leave the LSC combo tone "dry" and unaffected. The LSC "Slave Out" signal would go to one (or two!) delay unit(s), then on to the power amps and speakers, being the "wet" Left and Right delay effects. I did not intend to bring the signal back into the LSC. The problem here is that the "Slave Out" does not seem to be a good choice for the "wet" processing signal.

That would work too. I didn't realize when I typed my above post that we were talking about a combo and two extension cabs. If that's the case, you can indeed run your combo dry, then have your slave out output to a delay, and the delay output (in stereo) into a stereo power amp, then to your other two extension cabs. This setup is known as wet/dry/wet and is very cool as it gives you both the immediacy of an uneffected dry signal in the centre, and the stereo delay effects like ping ponging.

Just to clarify, the only reason I said you couldn't use the slave out above is because you wanted to loop it back into the LSC's effects return, which would cause a feedback loop.

From the posts (replies) that have come in (listed in first post), in particular from "Screamingdaisy", I have a new and improved idea:

Put the delay(s) in the LSC effects loop. Let the original signal just "pass through" the delays, and back into the LSC, so that the LSC still outputs the original unaffected "dry" signal. Take the delayed "wet" signal(s) off the delay(s) and route those to the power amp L/R, or guitar amp(s) "Effects Loop In".

I have a Peavy Classic 30 1x12 tube amp with a effects loop. I will try the LSC Effects Loop delay configuration, LSC=non-delayed "dry" signal", and output the DD-6 (delayed "wet" signal) into the C30's Effects Loop In.

This gives me a great starting point (Stage 1). If this works out, I could later (Stage 2!) go to a second daisy-chained delay in the LSC FX loop, a power amp, and the 2 1x12 ext. cabs instead of the Peavy C30.

Thanks again to all who gave me these ideas! I will try it (Stage 1) and report back.

-Gary K

I think you'll like it.

To further complicate your options, if you want to leave the LSC "dry", you can use the slave out of the LSC, into the delay, then into the second amp. You may need to plug a dummy plug in the dry out of your delay pedal if you want to have just repeats coming out the second amp, or you can forgo the dummy plug if you want to have both dry and wet signals in the second amp.

Or, if you want stereo delay effects (like ping ponging repeats), you can run from the LSC FX loop send, into the delay, then one output into each amps FX loop return.

Not trying to complicate things on purpose... just tossing out some ideas that've worked for me.

 

[egkor]

Not trying to complicate things on purpose... just tossing out some ideas that've worked for me.

Thanks, you have helped quite a bit!

I was thinking that I want the LSC to be "dry", outputing the original signal. I would have one "wet" delay with one repeat (Stage 1) with the wet signal coming out of its own amp/speaker. Also thinking I could daisy-chain a second delay (from the "dry" signal output of the first delay) and send that "wet" repeat to its own amp/speaker.

This way the LSC is dry, repeat #1 (Left side amp/speaker) is wet, repeat #2 (Right side amp/speaker) is wet.

Andy Timmons daisy-chains 2 Electro Harmonix Memory Man delays and uses a different delay time for each unit. I don't know where in his configuration the "wet" repeats are amplified (along with "dry" signal and amp or seperate "wet" amp?). Love the delay effect he gets, so good you don't even notice it.

Brian May uses 3 (IIRC) daisy-chained delays, the wet output of each going to a 3-stack of Vox AC-30s. Dry 3-stack plus 3 wet 3-stacks=12 amps total!

So I was thinking along those lines, except more "budget" and on a smaller scale. But same idea.

Thanks
-Gary K

 

[screamingdaisy]

Andy Timmons daisy-chains 2 Electro Harmonix Memory Man delays and uses a different delay time for each unit. I don't know where in his configuration the "wet" repeats are amplified (along with "dry" signal and amp or seperate "wet" amp?). Love the delay effect he gets, so good you don't even notice it.

I believe that Andy just has it going effects loop send, delay 1, delay 2, effects loop return. Then he has a GCX switcher configured so that he can switch amps while using the same set of pedals.

 

[egkor]

Andy Timmons daisy-chains 2 Electro Harmonix Memory Man delays and uses a different delay time for each unit. I don't know where in his configuration the "wet" repeats are amplified (along with "dry" signal and amp or seperate "wet" amp?). Love the delay effect he gets, so good you don't even notice it.

I believe that Andy just has it going effects loop send, delay 1, delay 2, effects loop return. Then he has a GCX switcher configured so that he can switch amps while using the same set of pedals.

Fantastic!

I'm taking that to mean that his dry and 2 delayed signals all come out (sound-wise) through the amp he is currently switched to and playing through. Sure sounds good to me!

And here we have another possible configuration to try! I'll call it "Stage 1.5".

Thanks again!

-Gary K

 

[egkor]

I tried "Lonestar in Stereo" Stage 1, and found a few things out along the way.

Stage 1 configuration: Output of the LS in to a delay pedal (in my case a Boss DD-6), output of the delay in to a seperate combo amp (Power Amp In connection).

1) When I tried to use the LS FX Out to drive the delay and second amp, that breaks/disconnects the LS FX loop internal jumper so no sound from the LS since pre-amp section no longer connected to power amp section.

2) When I use the LS Slave Out (instead of FX Out), it works fairly well!

3) I just read in the LS Owners Manual that if the LS FX Loop is engaged, the LS goes out of phase with respect to the second (stereo) combo amp. So I guess this may only be an issue if you have both the LS and the second combo both amplifying the "dry" signal. If you can have the second amp amplify the "wet" repeats only, then it should not be a problem.

-Gary K

 

[egkor]

Here is my "next phase" experimenting with LSC and stereo:

Configured like this: LSC Slave Out ->Boss CE5 Chorus(left/right)->Boss DD6 Delay (left/right)->Vox AC15CC1 (left/right) guitar in

I have to say it sounds good, and I wanted to try it at least once. But, in this configuration, it takes up too much space and would be a hassle to transport and set up, knock down again, etc.

After doing this experiment, I see the simplicity of just running a delay in the FX loop of the LSC, much more simple!

There was an unrelated side benefit to doing this: I tried the LSC with a Vox 2x12 cab, and I tried the Vox AC-15's with the 1x12 Mesa cabs (as pictured). Turns out it sounds great this way, using the dis-similar speakers.

-Gary K

 

[creekhed]

I didn't read all the posts so sorry if this has been covered....

I'm running stereo right now and the easiest way to accomplish this to run out of the Delay pedal in stereo... one output to each amp. I use a Line 6 DL4 and in the "Ping-Pong or Stereo Delay settings I get fantastic Stereo Delays that bounce back and forth from amp to amp.
Actually I use a Pedalboard that has stereo outputs on it so I accomplish the feat that way.
Also, if the soundman pans each amp to different sides of the "room" the effect is great for anyone on the crowd!

I cannot stress enough the AWESOME sound that 2 nice amps run in stereo with stereo delay produces. Night and Day!!!!!!

 

[egkor]

Hi creekhed,

That's basically what I was doing in the pic above. The Slave Out of the LSC is going to a stereo delay pedal (Boss DD-6), and the L/R of the delay is each going to a Vox amp.

People accomplish this other ways, for example, the L/R output of a stereo delay can go to a stereo power amp, then to L/R speakers.

Several ways to get there.

Thanks,
-Gary K