Roadster Questions

[Big_Al]

I had some time to play around with tubes on my Roadster today. I am only focusing on channels 3 & 4 playing around with V1, V2 and V3 (never ending) along with changing out 6l6's and EL34's. I have not been very happy with the vintage mode so I did some reading on the forum and found that some had raised their mids by running the treble very low and ran the presence pretty high in order to set the mid higher. Tried that and it seemed to have the same results as more neutral (everything around 12:00) setting. Anyway, I always run channel three on vintage and four on modern so I decided to switch them around. Channel three sounded great in modern mode but channel four had a muffled lower volume sound. I turned the master way up to equal the volume of channel 4 but it still sounded muffled until the presence was turned all the way up. Is this normal?
Sometimes I feel that I am trying to make a rectifier series amp not sound like a rectifier.

Also, I have been trying to add more mids but I could not tell you what frequency range I feel is too low. Could be I am just trying to make a leopard change his spots?

 

[knotts]

I read about so many people trying to change the sound on their roadster. I struggle with it a little sometimes myself, but overall I'm pretty happy with the tones I'm getting. My problem is that I don't have enough time with the band to find the right levels for all of the channels that mix well with the tones of then entire band. A spot where 4 channels gets to be tougher. On any given night I'll have 2 channels that sound stellar and 2 that aren't quite right. Last week I did the same thing with Channel 3 (moving it to modern mode) and was happy with the results.

I sometimes think I should have gotten an RA but I'm not fighting my roadster enough to make that leap yet, but the simplicity of that amp is a bit attractive for the way my brain and ears are wired. I like most of the sound that is coming from the amp. I just think I might need more time getting used to how each channel reacts to things like room size, shape, etc.

I did an overhaul of my preamp selection with a kit from Doug's tubes. It didn't change the character of the amp, but made the notes more defined and less muffled. I would love to mess around with an RA to see if I would prefer it to my roadster. You might want to test the waters with another amp. What's the worst thing that happens...you like it better?

 

[domct203]

Ch 4 is optimized for Modern mode and it's normal to have to crank the presence in Vintage to get it to sound like Ch 3's Vintage mode. The presence circuit is different between ch's 3 & 4, as well as the pot tapers.

Dom

 

[ryjan]

Stop chasing tone and it will quit running away.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Channel three sounded great in modern mode but channel four had a muffled lower volume sound. I turned the master way up to equal the volume of channel 4 but it still sounded muffled until the presence was turned all the way up. Is this normal?

Yes.

Sometimes I feel that I am trying to make a rectifier series amp not sound like a rectifier.

Also, I have been trying to add more mids but I could not tell you what frequency range I feel is too low. Could be I am just trying to make a leopard change his spots?

What cab/speakers are you using?

 

[Big_Al]

Thanks for the replies!

I am using Recto 4x12 with the V30s. Started thinking about speakers and/or cabinets. I have a 5150 cabinet and it does sound a little different...not sure if it worse or better. I thought about trying two MC90's in one of my Recto cabinets.

Today I decided to stop screwing around with preamp tubes (for now) and just work on dialing the settings. Things are a little better and did notice that my playing is a little off. Probably screwing around with the amp too much and not practicing. Also probably suffering a little bit from ear fatigue. I tried a Stiletto and a Mark V today. Liked the fluid mode on the Stiletto and did not have enough time to dial in the Mark V I did see I would probably spend a lot of time tweaking the Mark and running into the same problems.

To Ryjan's comment...I agree. When I was using a 5150 head, no effects, just a BBE 422A, I was happy with the tone. I went to the Roadster because I was playing in a cover band and thought I needed four channels. I ended up only using two most of the time. With the 5150 I was using what I had and did not question improving the tone. Probably just need to practice more and get more of the tone from my fingers and not the amp.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I wouldn't mess around with speakers too much at this point. The amp is voiced around that cab and should be the easiest to dial in around.

The big thing about the Recto EQ is that dialling it in is as much about the feel of the amp as it is the sound of the amp, and if you don't have a really good feel for how the amp sounds naturally then you're going to get frustrated as you go in circles trying to fix the sound only to have the feel go all wonky, then fix the feel only to have the sound go all wonky.

Maybe consider resetting your ears. Set everything back to 12:00 and play like that for a day or two, then start adjusting the amp slowly, starting with just the gain and treble knobs.

 

[LithiumZero]

presence needs to be at at least 4:00 when running vintage mode on Channel 4

 

[jbird]

I use channel 3 modern as my lead channel! Channel 4 modern for rhythm!

 

[Big_Al]

I am a little closer with to a sound I really like. I still cannot completely give myself over to the "tune with your ears and not your eyes", some of the knob twisting still does not make sense to me.

Would an EQ be helpful in the loop?

 

[screamingdaisy]

Would an EQ be helpful in the loop?

Some people love them. Some people find them unnecessary. The only way to know what side you fall on is to try it for yourself.

 

[Big_Al]

Would an EQ be helpful in the loop?

Some people love them. Some people find them unnecessary. The only way to know what side you fall on is to try it for yourself.

I will give the MXR 10 band EQ a try. Even if I find I really do not need it for the Roadster, probably worth having one to keep in the bag.

Thanks Screamingdaisy for the input. I noted where I ended up on the channel three vintage mode settings and then put everything back to 12:00. The gain was bumped up some and the treble came down a little and by Wednesday night I was close to the setting I had recorded. Maybe the EQ will allow me to fine tune but then again I may be able to get there with the amp's high-mid-low.

 

[ryjan]

Why can't Mesa just make every amp with the 5 band eq? That would solve a lot of problems.

 

[Given To Fly]

Why can't Mesa just make every amp with the 5 band eq? That would solve a lot of problems.

I'm sure there are many reasons. However, if the 5 band EQ has the same affect it has on the Mark IV, then I'm all for it! I had a 7 band graphic EQ in the FX loop and while I could really alter the tone, it was never "better."

 

[nathan28]

Something you can try is a overdrive pedal for clean boost or even to color the tone a little bit. Tube screamers usually add some mid and reduce some low mid or bass. The Fulltone OCD is my favorite, it is transparent but tightens the amp up and makes the strings feel less stiff. Tons of options are out there. If you want to try one and not spend a lot try the "Bad Monkey" it is similiar to a tube screamer. I find that each amp responds different to overdrive pedals and so do different guitars, but is a great way to shape your sound.

 

[Big_Al]

I got a 10-band MXR and it does help make adjustments (for me) easier and quicker. I could see that I could probably get there with knob twisting but I am stilling struggling.