Roadster needs more gain!!

[harem_theater]

Hey guys.

I'm loving my Roadster head so far (about 2 months), although channels 1-3 are fantastic, i feel i need a little bit more gain on channel 4. My lead tone has always had an over the top gain vibe about it (ala steve vai) to the point when playing at rehearsal volume, i get feedback when i stop playing on channel 4. It's just the way i like my lead touch sensitivity.

Now, i know there are mods here to get more gain and stilletto voicing out of channel 2 brit by swapping out pots, but is there any way i can get a slither more gain out of channel 4 by doing this? i guess i want that tubescreamer boost without the pedal.

Any takers?
Thanks

Matt

 

[UnderJollyRoger]

Put the Gain on 10

Seriously, where do you have it set ? I can't imagine one would put it on - let's say - seven or eight and not have enough gain ...

 

[harem_theater]

haha i knew someone would say that. It IS on ten and not hot enough. I'm running Dimarzio Tone Zones, Steve's specials and Air Nortons and my volume is up pretty loud. the notes just feel a little choked and i like the feel of effortlessly tapping. I'm thinking of a flat boost pedal or an overdrive pedal in front but i'd rather just squeeze more out of the amp.

 

[Chris McKinley]

Bad news....the Recto series simply isn't capable of it. It's funny, for all the high-gain reputation that the Rectos have had since their creation, they really aren't all that high-gain compared to a) certain other high-gain amps, and b) what we 80's shredders used to call high gain.

As if that weren't enough, the Rectos' design is such that there is simultaneously too much gain on tap to be useable in some frequencies and nowhere near enough in others. For example, putting the gain on 10 results in what is, to most ears, a completely unacceptable level of mud in the bass frequencies and an unacceptable loss of definition in the treble frequencies. At the same time, even with the gain on 10, the amp still doesn't produce enough mids and mid harmonics to produce even-order feedback with pick attack alone the way modded Marshalls or Rectos with modded Tubescreamers in front can.

Raw gain often becomes misunderstood in the pursuit of both high-gain lead and rhythm tones. Huge guitar sound is more often a function of frequency contrast and track layering for rhythm, and harmonic content and sustain for lead. Raw gain plays a vital role, but it's not sufficient in and of itself.

 

[espboogie123]

--

 

[RoadKinger483]

Why don't you try a clean boost pedal to icrease the output of your pickups. I use the xotic RC Boost pedal on my Roadster sometimes. Its tranparent enough on the cleans to where it leaves the tone unalteredand adds power to the tone but pushed hard enough in channels 3 and 4 for that extra output and sizzle. Im running vintage output pickups on my PRS Custom 22 and it loves the combination. I've tried the pedal with many other guitars as well and it handles them all beutifully. If your on a budget a seymour duncan pickup booster will do the triack also :wink:

 

[screamingdaisy]

Tubescreamer. It adds mids and compression that simply turning up the gain doesn't accomplish.

It's why dudes like Vai - dudes who have their own custom built amps - still use pedals for their lead boost.

 

[MrMarkIII]

Practice, practice, practice.

 

[fluff191]

Time for a boost! Maxon OD808 is great for that.

 

[harem_theater]

haha yeah i guess you're all right....dunno about MrMarkIII, though haha :wink:

I just hate fiddling with pedals and such. I came from a TriAxis based rack with a Line 6 Spider Valve mkII (VERY good amp for the price btw) to the roadster which i'm glad i did. I'd forgotten what a 'real' AMP feels like with instant response and no latency. But at the same time i was spoiled with all that gain and MIDI controlling.

Guess it's time to start MIDI'ing up this rig too.

So you folks think the Ibanez/Maxon TS is the better route? I've even thought of trying some boss pedals but I'm pretty sure i only like that idea because i can mod them for fun without spending a lot of money on the initial product (cheap pedals).

 

[Chris McKinley]

Depends on what sound you're going for and whether or not you are wanting to either get a modded pedal or do your own mods, or whether you'd prefer to buy a stock pedal. I generally build better quality stuff than Maxon or Ibanez, so for me the question is between whether I want to mod a stock pedal or build one from scratch.

There are also different categories of effects that can be considered for the job. Overdrives are not the same as clean boosts, which are different from EQ's, which are different still from treble boosters. Then there are always basic compressors. Plus, you can mix and match any of these for even more possibilities.

 

[b0nkersx]

haha yeah i guess you're all right....dunno about MrMarkIII, though haha :wink:

I just hate fiddling with pedals and such. I came from a TriAxis based rack with a Line 6 Spider Valve mkII (VERY good amp for the price btw) to the roadster which i'm glad i did. I'd forgotten what a 'real' AMP feels like with instant response and no latency. But at the same time i was spoiled with all that gain and MIDI controlling.

Guess it's time to start MIDI'ing up this rig too.

So you folks think the Ibanez/Maxon TS is the better route? I've even thought of trying some boss pedals but I'm pretty sure i only like that idea because i can mod them for fun without spending a lot of money on the initial product (cheap pedals).

If you want a cheap boss pedal, the Super Overdrive is a good look. I use a Maxon 808 and Fulltone OCD for boosts, but I really like the Maxon in particular.

 

[espboogie123]

+1 Maxon od808

 

[joe web]

more gain needed on the roadster?
i use the red channel set to modern as my lead sound. gain turned up to 3 o´clock and this is enough gain for leads.
but too much gain for a tight rhythm playing.

while using the orange channel set to vintage for leads (gain at 1 o´clock), i push it with an MXR ZW-44 overdrive.
love both lead-sounds. the red channel is a more singing, warm midrange lead and the orange with zw-44 is more cutting through with aggressive mids and highs and reminds me more of the 80´s metal solo-sounds.

 

[Rkorn]

Does the Mark V has more gain than the Roadster??

 

[screamingdaisy]

Does the Mark V has more gain than the Roadster??

I don't know if I'd say 'more' or 'less' so much as 'different'.

The Mark V lead channel has a tighter, more compressed sounding gain and it's combined with a stronger midrange that makes leads pop out in the mix better. Further, since the Mark V's rotary tone controls are situation further forward in the preamp's signal path you can dial down the bass early on (before it's gone through all the amplifier stages), which lets you pour more and more gain on without it turning into a constant stream of liquid mush.

The Recto on the other hand has it's tone controls after the gain stages, so each gain stage is hit with the full bass signal from the stage prior. This creates a more mushy sound that lacks definition. It's also why Rectos combine with Tubescreamers and EMGs so well... both the TS and an EMG-81 are known for not having a whole lot of bottom end, so you get a tighter, punchier high gain signal. Additionally, the TS adds more compression and midrange, so you can back down on the amp gain whist achieving the level of sustain the amp doesn't naturally achive on it's own.

Kind of an indirect answer... but comparing the two amps based on 'which has more gain' ignores a whole bunch of details that may be more useful.

 

[jtroska]

The Roadster has plenty gain. If you're not getting enough gain, something is wrong somewhere.

I would investigate the pickups first. I've had a Tone Zone ages ago and, as I remember it, I don't think it would be a good match for the Roadster. It was very fat-sounding. And, as ScreamingDaisy pointed out, Rectos like pickups with less low end.

And the Dimarzio web site had this to say about their Steve Special pickup: "Bass and treble frequencies are boosted while the mids are pulled back, so the pickup’s power doesn’t kick a high-gain amp into overdrive as easily." So I don't think the Steve Special is putting out the sound you want your Roadster to hear, either.

I'm using a PRS SC250 (aka "Tremonti") pickup. My Roadster gets plenty of gain from that and I don't use an external boost. Well, sometimes I like the old-school sound of using the Brit mode with low gain and a TS808 for solo boosts. But high-gain channels 3 and 4 are straight in. And the gain is only at 1:30. Higher than that is over-doing it.

 

[Acesofbelkan]

Hey guys.

I'm loving my Roadster head so far (about 2 months), although channels 1-3 are fantastic, i feel i need a little bit more gain on channel 4. My lead tone has always had an over the top gain vibe about it (ala steve vai) to the point when playing at rehearsal volume, i get feedback when i stop playing on channel 4. It's just the way i like my lead touch sensitivity.

Now, i know there are mods here to get more gain and stilletto voicing out of channel 2 brit by swapping out pots, but is there any way i can get a slither more gain out of channel 4 by doing this? i guess i want that tubescreamer boost without the pedal.

Any takers?
Thanks

Matt

I think I know exactly what you need, and it's not gain. You want compression. The gain is plenty, but Rectos just retain a lot of dynamics even through high-gain. You can achieve more compression if you cut the mids a bit too.
Recto's are GREAT amps for rhythm because they retain dynamics no matter how much gain you pour on and that makes them sound super heavy.
Get a booster pedal and I'm sure that will had the compression you're looking for.

I also forgot to mention btw, pickups make a huge difference, I have 2 soloists, one with a JB(trebly *** pickup) and a Seymour Invader(HUGE bottom end), and having my recto with the Gain at 1 oclock with the invader equals the same with the gain maxed on the JB. The invader is much higher output and has a fat low end, so my suggestion is probably get some new pickups and/or a boost.

 

[jtroska]

I don't like the JB pickup for high gain amps. Lacks any kind of midrange crunch. I haven't heard the Steve Special, but based on the description at the Dimarzio site, I imagine it would be about at pushing (or maybe *not* pushing) an amp like the Roadster Recto.

 

[Acesofbelkan]

Yeah I dont like the JB niether for my single rectifier.

But hey today I went to try and get a good lead tone that makes it super easy to play. Too much mids and treble makes it harder to play super fluid lead licks. Steve Vais tone doesnt have much mids and treble, its all about getting a smooth rich sustaining tone. Just cut the treble and mids and presence enough so it sounds smooth but not so much so that its muddy. This will make it worlds easier to play and it will really feel like you just added a ton of gain.

Be sure to use the right pickup too, a JB would be horrible since its so trebley.