Road King gain problems, almost at the end of my rope.

[aenigma]

Hey guys I am new here and just found the forum searching around for some Road King info.I just got a Road King on ebay that is 6 months old supposedly and it came with a broken power tube so I got a pair of replacement tubes and after trying it out I found it doesn't have hardly any gain and the amp itself sounds dead.

I tried an overdrive pedal with it which helps a bit, if you like ungoldy ammounts of feedback and noise that is.Even when I crank the gain up on either channel there isn't much gain and I hear the gain at 12:00-3:00 is supposed to be very strong.For reference I have an old Spider 2 beside it and it has alot more gain and doesn't sound as dead, and that is on the "Metal" channel, not even the very high gain "Insane" channel.I used to have a Peavey XXX that had gobs more gain as well.I kept that thing below 12:00 most of the time.I haven't play it in awhile but I think my friend Peavey Bandit has more gain even.

The main thing I don't like about the low gain is that it feels like I am playing with my guitar volume turned down or something and the notes don't have much sustain, they don't sing at all especially when playing lead.And when playing something like Glasgow Kiss(John Petrucci - Suspended Animation) which is an arpeggio down on the lower strings they all sound dead and makes it feel harder to play and generally sound worse even if I am playing it cleanly.They just have a emtpy thud sound to them, kind of hard to explain.But it is the sort of thing that makes you want to jump out of a window the more you play.Oh and it is about 10 times as worse on my guitar with passive pickups (Parker Fly) instead of active emg's, which really bugs me because I like the tone of that guitar alot more.It is so bad on the passive pickups it just feels like a simple overdrive pedal or something.

One more thing I noticed which may just be in my head is that after playing for a little bit it seems like it loses some gain and tone, could just be that I start getting used to it and realizing more and more that I don't like the sound.But I wanted to add that just in case it is relevant.

Now I suspected it was a bad preamp tube so I got one and did the one at a time swap test and there were no improvements.I hear a driver tube can cause the amp to lose output and sound lifeless, but which one is the driver tube anyway?Another thing that broke when being shipped was a rectifer tube, I found that out just recently.The only that that broke though was the plastic guide that lines up the pins, and I tried the silicon diode setting to bypass the tube rectifier and it still doesn't quite have the gain/distortion.

Any ideas of what could be causing this?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

 

[goneloco]

this is the reason i insisted on buying a NEW road king sealed in a box,i drove over 400 miles and paid $2700 , but it was well worth it. my road king has plenty of gain and works perfectly. the road king is a very fragile peice of gear,buying it used on ebay NO WAY sellers just tell you what you want to here to make the sale. lesson learned!

 

[aenigma]

Well that was a helpful reply. :roll:

I buy everything on ebay, you see here in the middle of nowhere the only thing my local guitar stores stock are marshall and peavey, buying from a store isnt an option.Not only that but if my store even caried Mesa they would have wanted way too much for it.I have bought tons of things on ebay with no problems, including that peavey xxx tube amp.This is the only thing that has given me any problems.

Whatever happend to this amp most likely happend during transit, when I told the guy the tube broke he even offered to pay for tubes.So I doubt he was trying to pull a fast one or anything other wise he would have said too bad.

Hopefully I get through to Mesa sometime this year and see what they have to say.

 

[Brewski]

If it's only 6 months old, you are under warranty and it would be worth your while to get it diagnosed. You may have a few bad tubes, but there are a lot of tubes in that amp and I'd hate to see you spend the money on a complete retube kit, if it's not needed. Make sure that the tubes are Mesa's to keep your warranty valid.

 

[Brewski]

Oops. I didn't see your response until after I sent mine. I didn't realize that you were out in Mooseopolis. If you have a Mesa dealer and technician fairly near, take it in. If you're really out there, you may have to ship the amp in to Mesa. If that's the case, the amp sound be removed from the chassis and the tubes taken out and wrapped seperately.

If the amp arrived to you originally with a broken tube, chances are that it got dropped or banged pretty good in shipment. :shock:

 

[aenigma]

Thanks for the response Brewski.
Yeah the tubes are Mesa except the Groove Tube (Gold Series) I used to test the 12AX7.It does have the warranty papers but they haven't been filled out by the guy I got it from so I am not exactly sure how to go about doing that.Because I don't think Mesa is going to warranty it without the papers even if it is still new.They don't seem to be the kind that offer help unless they have to.

There is someone locally who works on amps, tv's, radios and tube electronics and I mentioned the Road King and he knew all about it, turns out he has worked on them before which suprised me being in the middle of nowhere.He said it might be the driver tube but I don't know where that tube is, he said something about it being one of the preamp tubes that switches channels or something.But I could have him take a look at it if Mesa wont honor the warranty.

I sure hate sending it to Mesa and waiting such a long time especially if it is something simple.If I were to send it anywhere I would rather just sell the **** thing and get myself a Mark IV like I probably should have done to begin with seeing as how that smooth tone is what I really want.

 

[aenigma]

Oops. I didn't see your response until after I sent mine. I didn't realize that you were out in Mooseopolis. Smile If you have a Mesa dealer and technician fairly near, take it in. If you're really out there, you may have to ship the amp in to Mesa. If that's the case, the amp sound be removed from the chassis and the tubes taken out and wrapped seperately.

If the amp arrived to you originally with a broken tube, chances are that it got dropped or banged pretty good in shipment. Shocked

Yeah I don't have one near me just that guy who has apperantly worked on them before.The amp had a broken tube because the guy rubber banded the power cable next to the tube and it smacked the tube, that was some smart packing. :lol:
This is also why the rectifier tube has a broken plastic guide which is why I wonder if a broken rectifer tube could cause this problem because they probably both got beat up by that power cord.

 

[Brewski]

Yeah the tubes are Mesa except the Groove Tube (Gold Series) I used to test the 12AX7.It does have the warranty papers but they haven't been filled out by the guy I got it from so I am not exactly sure how to go about doing that.Because I don't think Mesa is going to warranty it without the papers even if it is still new.They don't seem to be the kind that offer help unless they have to.

It's pretty easy to have the warranty transferred to you. Just call up Mesa and they'll take care of it over the phone. If you have the original purchase date, the original dealer, and the serial number that makes it easier, however, I didn't have the original sales slip available at the time that I transferred mine. Mesa will track it by serial number and go off of the date that it went to the dealer. I found them pretty responsive when I talked with them.

 

[aenigma]

Ah I see.All I have is the serial number, I might be able to get the purchase date and dealer info from the guy I bought it from though.

 

[Brewski]

Ah I see.All I have is the serial number, I might be able to get the purchase date and dealer info from the guy I bought it from though.

That'll help if you want your warranty period to start from his original purchase date instead of the date that it was shipped to the dealer.

Good luck. That is a nice amp.

 

[aenigma]

Yeah I sure hope it is because right now the Spider 2 is better. :shock:

 

[jbird]

I don't want to insult your intelligence, but there is quite a learning curve to these Mesa's! I hope you recieved a manual, if not, you can download one from the Mesa sight. It's hard to diagnose a problem over the web, so I'm trying to find out if you are approaching this amp from a basic standpoint, ie; No effects, plugging straight into the front, bypassed effects loops, etc, etc.

 

[jbird]

You also did'nt mention which channels? They're modes? Or they're tube (power) selection? Need more info to help here! :?

 

[Red Barchetta]

Aenigma,

As a rabid fan of my RK combo, I can assure you that when working properly, there is NEVER a shortage of gain or tone available. Call Mesa with the serial # and get the warranty transferred BEFORE you let anyone look at it. Then, I realize you are in the middle of nowhere, but do whatever it takes to get the amp to a Mesa authorized repair shop. I had some minor upgrade problems when I first got mine, and the local guy Mesa had was great. Mesa also goes above and beyond for their authorized repair shops, next day air for parts, etc.

I guarantee that once your amp is brought up to spec, you will be blown away.

Good luck.

RB

 

[aenigma]

Oh next day air?That sounds good.I was expecting to wait a month, course with my luck I probably will anyways.

JBird:
Yes I got the manual and as I think I mentioned before I tried it's recomended settings too.I am not using any effects just pluged straight in.When I bypass the effects loop it works better but it still doesn't quite seem to have the gain it should.Or maybe it is not just the gain, but the "feel" of the amp.Like each string feels stiff or something even with high gain, like I am fighting against the amp when playing.

I have tried many different power tube selections with it but I have settled on 2 6l6's for channel 4 using silicon diode on modern, that seems to work ok.It sure does blow you away cranked up, pretty good for the rhythm stuff, still not quite right though.Channel 3 uses 2 el34's tube rectifier on vintage.I still need to work a bit with the settings.

 

[Red Barchetta]

Turnaround for my amp repair at an authorized shop was less than a week.

Dooood, you will SO love the amp when it's right.


RB

 

[tele_jas]

Oops, wrong thread..... I'll post in the right one now :wink:

 

[HappyStrat]

Deja Vu! I've had my RK head & 4X12 RK cab for a year now. When I first got it, it was nothing less than amazing. About 6 months ago, mine started doing the same EXACT thing yours is doing. Bought 2 complete sets of tubes for it, no help. The gain is only about a third of what it used to be and the controls don't really change anything, they're pretty mushy. The best sound I can get is by bypassing the loops also, but even that doesn't make it sound like it should. It's really frustrating cause I know how it's really supposed to sound.

I called Mesa and talked with Kris Dilbeck in customer service. He listened very patiently to me about my problem (same as yours) and asked me some questions. He said there are some upgrades that must be done. He gave me the option of taking it to a local authorized Mesa repair or shipping it back to the factory. I had a bad experience with my local Mesa repair once on my Mark IV, so I opted to send it to Petaluma. Mainly, I wanted to ensure that it is fixed right so I sent it to the place it was born. UPS picked mine up on Monday so it should be there in a few days. I'll let you know how mine turned out.

I know its frustrating but don't give up on your RK yet.

Red is so correct:

Dooood, you will SO love the amp when it's right.

 

[aenigma]

Awesome thanks for the reply HappyStrat!I am glad there is actually someone else that has the same problem!

It is very interesting the way it is now because every now and then I will go play it and it will seem like there is enough gain and it sounds pretty good and after playing for awhile and liking it I realize I actually don't like the tone and there really isn't much gain.And it goes back and forth like this alot.When your RK started losing gain did you notice it lacking tone and feeling lifeless too?Because mine doesn't seem to sound very good at all, at least not for their expensive flagship amp.

So UPS picked your amp from the factory to deliver to you or vice versa?
If they picked it up from Mesa to deliver to you, how long did it take for them to fix it?

 

[RR]

Although this is irrevalent to this post, I was reading Harmony Central and read about the early batch of LoneStars' break down rate, I don't know if applies to the RK but it is a newer model of MESA's.

I'm pretty sure the newer batches of LoneStars are updated and fixed of this problem.

So I'm waiting a little until all these kinks are ironed out before pulling the trigger on a LoneStar.

MESA Authorized dealer ... I know I won't trust the one in my area. I brought my MESA Boogie home from him after getting it repaired by him, he did fixed the problem but another problem happened when I got home. So I brought it back to him and he said there was a loose solder joint, and quess what? he charged me for a bench price!!! again!?

I said to him: "You should have allowed me to play the amp before I took it home with me. Who knows? Once you put together the amp in its enclosure, you could have loosen the solder joint!"

I was pissed: "If this is your policy, you think I'm return here for business?"

The owner of the shop not the technician, ended up allowing me to take my Boogie home without paying bench price.

The previous Authorized MESA repair shop once fixed my Boogie for free since I was a frequent customer (with other amps).