Rivera Rock Crusher

[rkaczano]

I am considering looking at a Rivera Rock Crusher (attenuator/load box) for my Mark V head. I am looking to maximize the tone at lower volumes on my Mark V head.

I am playing in a house and I have volume constraints (not in an apartment). I can turn my Master on each channel to about the 8-9 o'clock position currently. I am wondering if the sweet spot for the Mark V is closer to 12:00 o'clock and whether the Rock Crusher will bring out enhanced tone but at a reduce volume.

Thanks

 

[primal]

for 100$ more ($599) you can get the Fryette Power station.

I have never used a Rock crusher, but the fryette power station is the best attenuator I have ever used (granted I only ever used a hotplate)

Plus it does a bunch of other things as extremely well.

If you want to push your amp into power amp saturation, the loop on the power station comes in very handy as it would come after the power amp distortion.

 

[elvis]

I've been using a Rock Crusher for years. Works really well, though the record outs don't have great sound quality. I've used it with several amps and it's been my go-to for playing at home.

You should expect that even with a power attenuator you will not really capture the sound quality of loud. The speakers, physics of air and your ears are big pieces of that puzzle. Attenuated, you will get lots of saturation and sustain, but a bit more bassy/muddy tone. You can use the RC to adjust highs and lows, so that helps a lot, but it's just not the same as loud. Better, I think, than just turning down the master, but full-disclosure and all...

I think the Power Station sounds like a cool alternative as well. I've thought about it, but haven't pulled the trigger.

Also, lately I have been using a CabClone and a PDI-03 to eliminate the speaker altogether, and then run mic-level into a small mixer with my iPod. I can run headphones or quiet near-field monitors from that, as well as running into my Apogee Duet for recording. The sound quality from these two direct boxes is quite a bit different than from the amp's speaker, and in some ways a bit nicer for low-volume rehearsal/recording. It also allows for adding FX AFTER the power amp for a more post-production sound and feel, which is similar to what the Loop in the Power Station does I think.

 

[rkaczano]

Primal/Elvis, thank-you for the response. I noticed the Fryette Power Station has an FX loop (Rock Crusher does not). What does this accomplish? Secondly the Fryetter appears to have 2x tubes in it. Does the Rock Crusher have tubes?

Regards

RK

 

[primal]

Primal/Elvis, thank-you for the response. I noticed the Fryette Power Station has an FX loop (Rock Crusher does not). What does this accomplish? Secondly the Fryetter appears to have 2x tubes in it. Does the Rock Crusher have tubes?

Regards

RK

The Rock Crusher is strictly an attenuator. A very good one from everything I have read.

The power station is a lot of things, an attenuator being one of them. It can also essentially be the opposite of an attenuator. Where an attenuator is typically used to quiet loud amps while maintaining good tube amp saturation, it can also take a small low watt amp that could not normally hang with drums and make it louder. Very loud.

You take the speaker output from your amp and plug it into the Amp In jack on the power station. There are three knobs on the front.
Volume
Presence
Depth

With the volume knob at approximately the 11:00 position you are at what is called unity gain. It means output volume of the power station is the same as the output volume of your amp.

So lets say you have a cranked plexi with all that beautiful power amp breakup going into it and the volume is set to 11:00. It means you are hearing it at a volume as if the power station is not even hooked up. Now at this point as you move the volume down, it starts attenuating the signal. You still get all the breakup, but the power station acts as an attenuator. There is no clicking like a hotplate. You just use the volume knob and by the time you bring it all the way down it turns the volume off completely

Now lets say you have a low watt amp, like an epiphone valve junior plugged in and the power station volume set to 11:00. You will be hearing it at the same output volume as if there were no power station. But now you start to turn the volume up, and now that little valve junior that had no chance of hanging with a drummer before can easily hang with drums.

It can also be used as a straight up power amp, sort of like a single channel Mesa 2/50. Plug your preamp in and go.

Now the effects loop is my favorite. I have an old JCM 800 with no loop. I can plug the 800 into the power station and use the effects loop on it.
Sounds killer.

Now maybe all you would need if for is an attenuator. But for 100 more then the cost of the Rock Crusher, you get something that can do so much more, and even if you would not use it for more then an attenuator initially, you will eventually find ways to use it.

Here is a good video on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAGXRDfCF30

 

[knotts]

I play my Roadster with a Rock Crusher. Oddly enough, tonight the other guy in my band wanted to try it. He played it all night through his soldano hot rod 50 and at the end, he asked me to email him the link to buy one. It does not take the awesome tone at volume and reign it in to bedroom levels. It DOES, as previously mentioned, tame the highs and lows and allow you to turn up the amp volume to push the tubes and get that sustain. It compresses the sound a little and requires a little EQ. The beauty of the Rock Crusher, in my opinion, is that it doesn't color your sound in any way. It preserves the sound of your amp just cuts the volume. I bought a hot plate and returned it in a matter of days because it completely changed the character of the amp. It's built like a tank. I was lucky enough to pick it up used on guitar centers website for $200. When I went to the store to pick it up, it was as if it was brand new; not a scratch on it. It's not cheap but worth the few extra bucks.

I have no experience with the Fryette so I cannot comment there.

 

[SamuelJ86]

I'm also in a situation where I play a lot at home (house). So after about a year of owning my mark V, I also thought an attenuator would be a useful tool. The V is so freaking loud it's ridiculous. Even in 10 watts its loud enough cranked to get the neighbors attention. And I prefer the feel of 90 watts. So getting in that sweet spot can be tough. The amp just comes to life when you get the volume above 10 o'clock on the output control with the loop bypassed. And that's freaking loud in 90 watts. So I picked up a hotplate. I wouldn't say it changed the character of the amp but it definitely sucks a lot of tone. So much so that I just couldn't find the sound I was looking for. I really only enjoyed it when I would push the power tubes into overdrive on channel 1. Tweed mode with el34s breaking up is amazing! I only use it maybe once a month or so messing around. Guitar center wouldnt give me anything for it cause the light bulb wouldn't work when they tested it. lol. You gotta give it some serious juice to get that little light to come on. Anyways, since the hotplate didn't really help me get that same sound I was hearing with the amp running in the sweet spot I gave up on looking at any other kind of attenuator. I've heard great things about the rock crusher but I just don't think any of them are good for "sweet spot" tone. Power tube distortion, sure. But like someone said, there's so many other factors. So one day serendipity found me. I was playing with the hotplate on the amp for a while and I took it off to play something else. And the amp sounded amazing at a reasonable volume level in 90 watts. The best it had ever sounded so quiet! I realized it sounded so good because it had been running so hot. So I kinda found a way to cheat to get closer to that sweet spot at a lower volume. Now everytime I play at home, I always run the amp almost full tilt through the hotplate for 10 minutes or so to get it running nice and hot, then I plug the speaker back in and it sounds great. If I don't heat things up before I play it always sounds brittle and cold. Recently I havnt even been plugging the hotplate in, I've been putting a couple of pillows in front of my combo and cranking it about 45%. I'd like to know if I'm the only person who does something like this. So I play at home with the volume on about 9 o'clockish, channel 3 with no loop. And after I heat it up, not just warm it up, but heat it up, I get that fire that this amp has when you get it up to 10 o'clock on the output pot. The personality of this amp always amazed me. I swear it's almost human. It's different everyday. But it was born to be loud, that's when its most consistent and that's when it sounds it's very best.

 

[Chris19]

I've definitely noticed my V comes to life after it has been running for a good while. Sometimes it sounds great just waking up, and sometimes it needs about an hour to get really cooking at what I consider "loud bedroom volumes"; like you said usually about 10 on the master if bypassing the loop, although I've been running an MXR 10 band eq in the loop lately and that can also help round out and fatten the tone at lower volume. For a while I was using cardboard boxes in front of my cab to keep her quiet, but it for me it killed the highs too much. It was mostly useable on the brighter voicings (edge, crunch, IIC+, etc) but Mark 1 mode, my hands-down favorite mode, was unuseable with how dark it already is. Then I moved, and I can basically play as loud as my ears (and my wife) will let me in my new place. I got quite lucky. It definitely begs to be played loud.

 

[rkaczano]

So if I have an FX loop in my Mark V does the FX Loop in the Fryette Power Station add any value?

Thanks

 

[primal]

So if I have an FX loop in my Mark V does the FX Loop in the Fryette Power Station add any value?

Thanks

Depends. If you have a group of effects in the loop you want always on and a seperate group of loop effects you would like footswitchable (per the Mark V) footswitch, it would give you that luxury. You could use the Mark V footswith to turn on and off a few effects. Other then that no.

In the end if you are just looking at if from the Mark V perspective, the Rock Crusher is probably fine.

I only bring up the power station cause it is only 100$ more expensive, may actually be a better attenuator (this I can not say for certain as I have never tried the Rock Crusher) and can do so many more things. Things that you may not use today, but that you may wish you had in the future.

 

[fr0sty]

I find the V's master volume to sound better than using my rockcrusher (or hotplate I used to own). I use the rockcrusher strictly as a load box to record silently into my daw.

 

[Monstercastle]

I'm using a THD Hotplate with mine and I'm pretty happy. Have been wondering (GAS is a big problem for me) if the Rockcrusher would just blow away the Hotplate or if I would have buyers remorse and not really see worlds of difference. So for now, I'm sticking with the Hotplate on 4 & 8DB settings for the most part. I like being able to dial in my main tones, then just knock down the volume by a few DB with the Hotplate. I also have the 16 ohm Hotplate that I use with my Marshall 1/2 stack.

 

[knotts]

I'm using a THD Hotplate with mine and I'm pretty happy. Have been wondering (GAS is a big problem for me) if the Rockcrusher would just blow away the Hotplate or if I would have buyers remorse and not really see worlds of difference. So for now, I'm sticking with the Hotplate on 4 & 8DB settings for the most part. I like being able to dial in my main tones, then just knock down the volume by a few DB with the Hotplate. I also have the 16 ohm Hotplate that I use with my Marshall 1/2 stack.

If you're happy with the hotplate don't waste you're money. Maybe if a deal comes along pull the trigger, but I would argue that you should put your money into something else.

 

[MrFlexx]

I've been trying most of the attenuators out there and I must say that the Torpedo Reload beats them all. I use it with my Mark V head and it doesn't color the sound at all. That can't be said about the other one's when doing heavy attenuation. The DI is also great. I'm extremly picky when it comes to tone and that's the reason I've been trying most of them out there. I use it when noodling, recording using microphones, reamping, making my own IR's and I also us it with Torpedo WOS III and I'm really pleased about the tones I get.

 

[sheehanje]

I'm a little confused with the Mark V and getting an attenuator.

First off, is it worth it? I just put a Rivera RockCrusher on order, but I've been reading that you can perfectly sound good at bedroom levels by cranking the channel masters and using the output volume to control the overall level. On other advice I actually had this backwards and was cranking the output volume and just barely cracking the channel masters up. I was never happy with the sound that way and getting the amp to a usable tone was not only way too loud for my apartment but also for a lot of the venues I play. I finally started doing the opposite at band rehearsal with the channel masters up and it sounds so much better - also some loud popping while changing channels fully vanished.. But even those volumes seem loud for home use - and I haven't had a chance yet to try the output volume at lower than band rehearsal volumes yet.

Secondly - I hear a lot of talk about the effects loop. I'm assuming using an attenuator while have nothing to do with my effects loop and I can run my pedal board as is? (I use a 4 cable method with a Line 6 Helix).


My objectives are:

A) Sound good at low volumes
B) Use the Line out feature to get into my DAW and then use IR's to simulate cabinets
C) Use both my 1X12 8 Ohm widebody cabinets


and my MAIN objective - and probably the only reason I would spend $500 on an attenuator is to be able to tweak my tone at home and have that carry over when I go live. Because honestly, my Line6 Helix sounds pretty darn good at bedroom levels (or headphones for that matter). So I'm mostly interested in being able to tweak my live sound at lower volumes then that being able to scale.

So, with that in mind is it worth it for me to keep the RockCrusher on order? They aren't getting them in for a few more days so I can cancel.

 

[knotts]

I'm a little confused with the Mark V and getting an attenuator.

First off, is it worth it? I just put a Rivera RockCrusher on order, but I've been reading that you can perfectly sound good at bedroom levels by cranking the channel masters and using the output volume to control the overall level. On other advice I actually had this backwards and was cranking the output volume and just barely cracking the channel masters up. I was never happy with the sound that way and getting the amp to a usable tone was not only way too loud for my apartment but also for a lot of the venues I play. I finally started doing the opposite at band rehearsal with the channel masters up and it sounds so much better - also some loud popping while changing channels fully vanished.. But even those volumes seem loud for home use - and I haven't had a chance yet to try the output volume at lower than band rehearsal volumes yet.

Secondly - I hear a lot of talk about the effects loop. I'm assuming using an attenuator while have nothing to do with my effects loop and I can run my pedal board as is? (I use a 4 cable method with a Line 6 Helix).


My objectives are:

A) Sound good at low volumes
B) Use the Line out feature to get into my DAW and then use IR's to simulate cabinets
C) Use both my 1X12 8 Ohm widebody cabinets


and my MAIN objective - and probably the only reason I would spend $500 on an attenuator is to be able to tweak my tone at home and have that carry over when I go live. Because honestly, my Line6 Helix sounds pretty darn good at bedroom levels (or headphones for that matter). So I'm mostly interested in being able to tweak my live sound at lower volumes then that being able to scale.

So, with that in mind is it worth it for me to keep the RockCrusher on order? They aren't getting them in for a few more days so I can cancel.

What's the return policy from the retailer? Make sure you know the details and play by the rules. It won't hurt to try it out and return it if it's not for you.

With my roadster, I used to put the channel masters up to 2 or 3 o'clock and the output to 10. It sounded good but more recently I've found turning the masters down to noon and the output up to noon has improved some of the dynamics of the amp. Without the attenuator, these settings are WAY too loud.

I just want to be clear, turning the knobs up on my amp and heavily attenuating the volume is not going to make your amp sound great. I turn up my amp and attenuate my sound to tolerable rehearsal volumes.

 

[sheehanje]

What's the return policy from the retailer? Make sure you know the details and play by the rules. It won't hurt to try it out and return it if it's not for you.

With my roadster, I used to put the channel masters up to 2 or 3 o'clock and the output to 10. It sounded good but more recently I've found turning the masters down to noon and the output up to noon has improved some of the dynamics of the amp. Without the attenuator, these settings are WAY too loud.

I just want to be clear, turning the knobs up on my amp and heavily attenuating the volume is not going to make your amp sound great. I turn up my amp and attenuate my sound to tolerable rehearsal volumes.

I just cancelled the order - seems I won't be able to use it with both cabinets (they would need to be 16ohm). I didn't want the unit just for home use, would've used it at rehearsal and for small venues. Looks like the Two Notes Torpedo Reload will handle it, but it's just out of my price range right now. Will have to wait.

Thanks!

 

[ozboy]

I think the amp sounds great with the master volume any where from 8:30 on. For over a year used in spongy mode thinking that would keep the noise down. Now though I far prefer the clarity that comes from full power. From memory I run ch 2 crunch in 45 watt mode.

Even moving from extreme on ch 3 to make iv seems to help with apparent volume. I say apparent because I haven't measured the difference. At the setting I use I'm about 85-95 db at two meters from the cab.

 

[sheehanje]

I think the amp sounds great with the master volume any where from 8:30 on. For over a year used in spongy mode thinking that would keep the noise down. Now though I far prefer the clarity that comes from full power. From memory I run ch 2 crunch in 45 watt mode.

Even moving from extreme on ch 3 to make iv seems to help with apparent volume. I say apparent because I haven't measured the difference. At the setting I use I'm about 85-95 db at two meters from the cab.

I actually got some good tone last night at lower volumes - much better than I expected now that I'm using it the way Mesa said - keep output down, dial in channel masters, then use output to adjust overall volume. It's not like cranking the amp open, but it's very workable. Channel 3 sounded really good. Channel 1 though seemed too low - even cranking the channel master. Not sure what's going on there. I haven't tried Channel 2 yet - but planning in dialing that in after my band gets out of the studio.


My wife still says it's too loud - but I think she hears all the money I've been spending on my gear lately..