removed the amp chassis from my LSC 1x12 combo...

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Maury

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and now that I have a gaping hole where the amp chassis was, the sound is awful :? . Before I try and plug up the space with some wood, does anyone know from prior experience if the original tone can be restored by just plugging the hole, or does the entire amp have to be in there? I wanted to buy a headshell or rack kit, but save the expense of buying a new cabinet. Hmm.
 
Yeah, sounds funky, doesn't it? I imagine you could get it back by solidly plugging the hole; if that doesn't get you exactly there, you could use the chassis dimensions and create a box that fits in that space. That should get you pretty much exactly where you were.

Funny, a lot of us seem to have given up the pig-hauling recently. (My project is documented in the "Piglet" thread here)

PS That said, I predict at some point you'll want to get an actual speaker cabinet. The combo is a good few inches taller than the Lone Star 1x12 or 2x12 cabinets, which are supposed to sound great; it's nice to downsize in spatial volume as well as component weight. I got a Freda, which I'm still assessing as the solution to my quest... I'm also eyeing the Mesa 1x12 widebody cab or the Lonestar 1x12, as I'm sort of missing the open-back vibe.
 
Won't we ever be satisfied. :? Yeah, I agree with djw. Plugging it up for starters. It still may require filling the void/space that the chassis occupied also.
 
thank you very much guys! I did plug up the voids and the cabinet still sounds a little different but not nearly as weird as without plugging it up. I may search for a small cabinet and DIY the headshell. Your piglet pics make this project SO tempting.
 
DJW, without asking you to write a book, could you briefly describe the cons of going from the LSC combo to the tiny 1x12? I'm looking at these cabinets and may just get them to do a custom head shell for me as well - but they have a no-return policy.

http://www.lopoline.com/1x12cabs.html
 
Maury said:
DJW, without asking you to write a book, could you briefly describe the cons of going from the LSC combo to the tiny 1x12? I'm looking at these cabinets and may just get them to do a custom head shell for me as well - but they have a no-return policy.

http://www.lopoline.com/1x12cabs.html
I don't have any experience with Lopo; I know their prices are tempting, but plan-x steered me away from them a while back. I can't speak for their specific build quality or anything, but here's what I do know:

Generally, smaller cabinet = smaller tone. Your driver plays a role too (the speaker itself) but the box it's mounted in plays a big part in the overall tonal girth and feeling of MASS moving air.

Construction-wise, build quality is important because it's what's the whole root and foundation of your sound is built upon.

If you're going small, a closed-back cab can get you better, tighter low-end response, so you get a little of it back -- but at the expense of it being a very directional cabinet. If you're standing directly in front, it sounds great; off to the sides, not so much. So for a straight-up closed back cab, I'd be hard-pressed to go with anything less than a 2x12. A small 1x12 with a closed back will be very beamy.

If you're always going to be mic'd, and can be assured that 99% of your audience's ears will hear you in the mains and not from the stage, and the band will mostly be hearing you in the monitors, this isn't all that relevant. But how many of us have that luxury?

Mesa makes a very nice compact 1x12 cab (this) with an open back, but even this is pretty beamy, or if not beamy it has a way of being unpleasantly bright when turned up loud. (We used to call it the Cube of Pain.) Powerful, awesome, and great for small gigs or situations where you won't be using it to compete with 4x12's and stuff; but when it's turned up, it can hurt you.

The Freda that I went with is based on the Mesa Thiele 1x12 design, which is a closed back but buys back some openness by being front-ported with a wide slot across the side of the baffle, so it's not quite as directional as a straight up closed back 1x12. Those Port City cabs use the same principle, along with some other tricks. Tons of punch and depth, and very decent dispersal. Still, I find I'm missing the open back thing. I noticed it onstage the other night: I don't think the band could hear me as well as before, and while the cab sounds really good, I missed the meaty everywhere-ness of the open back.

I'll keep the Freda -- it's compact, light, sounds awesome, and is pretty good at filling a room -- but I'm *this* close to firing off an order for a Lone Star 1x12 27" cabinet.

My advice is: you have a killer amp. Don't skimp on the speaker cabinet. :)
 
thanks man- a very informative and thought-out reply there. I play with 3 local bands, and only one of them guarantees that the cab is mic'd and the audience hears FOH guitars. When I'm playing or rehearsing, I LOVE my LSC combo. Then I spend hours and hours between gigs browsing the internet and I convince myself to go all "short head and tiny cab". I need to take your advice. Too many negatives if I stray from the LSC combo.

I appreciate your time.
 
Hey, no problem. However, I don't want to discourage you from going to a head/cab configuration -- I don't think there's really any downside to that. Implicit in my post is that the main reason the combo sounds so good is that it's in an oversized cabinet. However, there are lots of reasons why head+cab is desirable -- mainly reducing minute stress on the tubes, which will be happier being isolated from the speaker's direct vibrations. Rig flexibility is another plus. If you're fantasizing about down-sizing your rig, there's probably a good reason for it and in that case I'd definitely advocate saving up for a high-quality speaker cabinet. It might take a while to get the *right* one, but in the end you'll be stoked.
 
The Lopo build is decent. But as djw points out, skimping on speaker cab design will leave you with less tone than before. That is why I have left the combo intact, using an ext cab as well to trump the oringinal tone. Yeah, something like the LS 27" cab would probably get ya there and then some.
 
Hi gang:
I haven't posted much lately...but thought I'd tell you my findings on the Head/Cab versus Combo.

As DJW correctly pointed out...part of the spacious sound of the LS is due to the oversized 1X12 cab (whether in the Combo or the full sized speaker cab).

I recently picked up a 2X12 Lonestar cab to add to my head and 1X12 cab. The 2X12 sounded OK but seemed to lose some of that 'Bigness' I associated with the Lonestar. I replaced the top back-piece on the cabinert with one cut to the same size as the bottom back-piece and it gave it a full bass response similar to the single 1X12 cab. It is now a 2/3 closed back cabinet.

In the 1X12 cab I use either a EVM 12L or a JBL E-120. I like 'em both so I end up swapping around once in a while. I suppose I'll have to break down and get another 1X12 cab someday! Both these speakers are 8-ohm. In the 2X12 I have 2 16-OHM speakers wired in parallel....so this cabinet too is 8-ohms. When using both together I connect to the 4-ohm speaker jacks on the back of the Lonestar. BTW the 2X12 came with Vintage 30's but I've tried C90's in it too. They both work well...just go with your taste.

In my combo which stays at a plce where I play regularly I have a Celestion G12T75 and it sounds great for the music I play there...lots of country, a bit of Oldies and a smidgin of blues.

Take care, Charles
 
Thanks guys. I still am curious about doing the head/small cab, but I'm just less excited. With the combo, it's heavy but it has wheels. For example, if I had the small head and speaker this past Saturday, I would have carried both the head and cab in one trip and ironically it would have been more difficult than pushing the amp. After I got my amp onstage I helped my bandmates move 4 extremely heavy PA cabinets - so in reality, what laziness am I really gaining straying from the combo? Its so weird - when I see pics of the tiny head and cab I, I talk myself into doing it - but is it really logical? For me, I doubt it.
 
You have a point there, Maury. I wrestled with the same arguments, but lugging the combo up and down my front stairs 2-3 times a week got a little tiring and ultimately was the deciding factor for me. I just ordered the 27" 1x12, and hopefully it will still be enough of a difference that it makes sense. But I know that I don't miss the tube rattle I would frequently sort of ignore, and now I have the flexibility to run it with a 1x12 or a 4x12 and it'll look majorly cool. 8) Do what seems right! You can always revert too, you know.
 
Yeah man. Stairs are the enemy! This new band I just joined rehearses in a nice studio but it's on the 2nd floor of a structure and the stairs are many, and steep. There's a music man head and 212 combo there already for me, but you know how it is. If I could have my boogie there, rehearsals would feel as fun as gigs.

Ah, nothing's ever easy or cheap. And if you knew me better, you'd laugh because you would realize that even if I did have a short head and tiny cab that sounded great, I'd still find something in an internet forum thread that would convince me I'm still unhappy. :)
 
OK, I made it to Wednesday, and had to give in to the "project" bug.

Lopoline will build me a custom combo for $230 plus shipping. What I think I want now, in effect, is a small Mark IV style 1x12 where there's now wasted space. Squeeze the speaker and chassis in there, and put my casters under it. So before I order it sans any return policy, I figured I'll spend $30 more at Lowe's and try the idea out first. I'm gonna sit in with a friend's band tomorrow and I have a gig of my own Saturday.

I still have to attach the corners and casters ... and I have to find something to protect the speaker. Here's what I came up with (please don't laugh) I didn't have shop class in high school and the fact that I didn't lose both arms while wielding a jigsaw is a modern miracle :)

It's 1/2 inch birch - VERY light (40lbs to be exact) but most likely not sturdy enough to keep me from worrying. One negative I've already noticed- my clean headroom has shrunk. I can't play as loud as I used to on the clean channel without getting some early breakup. Is that a side-effect of the small cab??

IMG_3414.jpg

IMG_3416.jpg
 
Wow! Great idea to prototype first. How does it sound?

I believe Boogiemon round these parts has an LSC that he put into a Special combo cab, which I think is 4" narrower than the Classic, and would be about 4" wider than yours (it's about 19" wide, right?). I think he digs it; you might PM him for insight.
 
Cool. Yeah this one's 20x19x11 and 40lbs ... hard not to love it :)

The sound? Its weird. Not sure if I would dislike it if I hadn't heard the original LSC widebody first = and grown to love it for all these years. It's a more focused sound, and I don't know enough about physics but I swear I hear some odd stuff happening that I don't care for. Its almost like someone bottled an LSC into a solid state pedal, and that's what my tone sounds like now. It's still mesa LSC but it's not right.

I can't act surprised. I'm sure there were plenty of reasons why Boogie didn't introduce these LSCs in super-compact cabs. :(
 
OK - update... I brought home a used Tech 21 Trademark 60 today from GC. I can't stop wishing for a portable solution. The clean channel is ok, and there are some cool tones on the dirt channel, but its not a Mesa. Heck, its not even tube (but its very cool for a SS amp). Anyway, I slaved my LSC into the Tech 21 FX and the tone was great! That means an LSC can sound great in a small enclosure, just not in the one i made myself LOL. I wanted to bring home an Express 5:25 1x12 but there just aint enough headroom. Here goes: has anyone here ever considered loading their LSC or LSS into an Express 5:25 1x12 combo shell? Man, THAT would be portable!
 
I did it - and here's the thread where I posted some info & pics, for anyone interested:

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=45953
 

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