Rectoverb vs. Mark IV vs. F50

[Sandman_61]

Hey everybody, I'm new to the forum and could really use some expert Mesa advice. I just discovered this place last night, if I had some more time I could probably get all the info I needed just buy browsing around, but I'm kind of in a bind timewise.

I'll be buying my first Mesa this week. I'm looking at a Rectoverb, which is $1475 at the Guitar Center near me. I haven't had a chance to play it yet, since its beeing shipped in from another location, but the sales guy has recommended it. Heres my dilemma: they also have a used Mark IV for $1600 that I played around with for a few minutes, I've heard great things about them but I know they take some time and work to find the right tones. Also, I've heard alot of great things about the F50, but I've never played one. I'm pretty sure I could order one from GC if I really wanted one. So should I spend the money on the recto, or the Mark IV, or the F50? Versatility is key for me, I dabble in some blues, rock, classic rock, hard rock, and metal, hell maybe even some jazz/country if I ever get the chance. Simplicity is also appreciated, which is why I'm leaning towards the recto. Finally, the amp will be used in an apt., so I'm hoping it will work well at lower levels, but also be capable of jamming w/ a drummer or playing small gigs if necessary. So what would the experts recommend? If if helps, I'll be playing it with a PRS Custom 24, with little to no effects, just straight guitar into amp. Thanks a bunch in advance everybody!

 

[tele_jas]

It all depends on what your ears like??

* Rectoverb - 2 channels, Ch1 Clean and Pushed Ch2 Vintage, Raw and Modern. The cleans are pretty good, but IMO the F50 has the best clean out of the there. The Rectoverb is a Rectifier and has that "recto" tone to it. It's full time 50 wts and loud! The ROV has a solo boost, but the reverb isn't really that good... if you like lots of reverb, you'll need an external unit.

* The Mark IV is probably the most versatile of the three, but when I tried it the gain was almost there but not quite the type of gain I was looking for. The reverb was nice and the cleans, semi clean and classic rock tones were great. The Mark IV also has the best FX loop of the three and the most options available via the pedal.

* The F50 has the best cleans of the three, and the distortion is less throaty than the Rectoverb and can do classic rock to hard rock pretty good and with the contour switch it can do hard rock to metal easily.

With all three of these being tube amps (Mesa's at that), you're gonna have volume issues to an extent... but you should be able to get decent tones at "bedroom" level from all three of these. I believe the Mark IV has a wattage switch and maybe even a head phone out (not sure about that one). I've also heard the ROV doesn't have the best FX loop to deal with.

So, to recap (in my own opinion):
* Best distortion - Rectoverb
* Best cleans - F50
* most versatile - Mark IV

Good luck, I don't think you'll go wrong with any of the above amps.

Have you thought about the ultimate? A Road King or a Roadster? A little more money, but well worth the extra you spend.

 

[Russ]

Those prices seem a little inflated. I would suggest looking around a little more.

As far as which one of the three goes, I would say Mark IV. You want lower volumes? Cut your power down via switching and even swap tubes to 6V6s. The amp sounds great with 6L6s or a combo of 6L6s and EL34s. It even sounds good with 6L6s and KT77s. I have been getting ready to swap down to 6V6s and have gotten some good responses to my queries. Versatility is the word if you play a Mark IV. It does just about all styles. It has the best switching and the tightest bottom. It gets more than enough gain for most applications and won't flub unless you force it to. This amp is probably the best Lead amp of the three. If you are not playing lead guitar the Lead makes one hell of a rhythm channel. Though the controls seem a little overbearing it is nothing really to discount. It is merely a way to precisely dial yourself in. The only way it will ever sound bad is if you make it sound bad. The learning curve for the amp is somewhere between a week and month depending upon how much you apply yourself to the amp the completely figure it out and how complex you want your sound. For your information in the 6V6 mode you will be down around 30 watts. That is a nice place to be for getting nice tones out of lower volume. With the full 6L6 mode you will be in the 85 watt range which is loud enough to play very large venues. This is not to say that you cannot use the amp somewhere in between with the 6L6s or combination as mentioned above. You can put it in tweed mode and cut your power down to about half which is what I like at home. The Mark IV doesn't have a headphone out (but very likely could because the thing is so versatile). The cleans are actually pretty good once you dial them in on the Mark IV. The reverb of the Mark IV is ok but there are better out there.

If you do not like your distortion tight then go Rectoverb. The Recto-type amps seem to be looser once you dial up the gain. Again the reverb was not stellar on the Rectoverb. The controls are not as many but you do not get that Boogie EQ that really makes a difference in shaping your tone.

The F50 lands somewhere between the Mark IV and the Recto. Though not nearly as versatile as the Mark IV it still give a wide range of tones. The distortion leans more towards Recto than Mark IV but the cleans are cleaner like the Mark IV. It is a good compromise if you must and seems well rounded though I think it falls short of providing the best of both. There are many that love the F and DC series amps but personally I think that if you want Boogie sound then you want a Mark. If you want the Recto sound you buy a Recto.

My thoughts:

Tightest Most Aggressive Distortion- Mark IV

Best Recto Sounds (Loose and Heavy Feel)- Recto

Most Versatile- Mark IV

Best Compromise For Achieving Some of Both- F Series.

Best Choice- Mark IV and Recto with an A/B switch.

Which would I buy first? Mark IV.

A used Mark IV should be somewhere between $800-1300. On the low side it may need some work. On the high side it should be perfect or very clsoe to it. GC will typically have at least a 10% margin that you can talk them down. Used stuff can vary depending upon your local market and how much they had to pay for it initially. I would try to talk them down some.

A used Rectoverb should be in the same price range as the Mark IV. Again, I would try to get them to come down on the price some.

"Versatility is key for me, I dabble in some blues, rock, classic rock, hard rock, and metal, hell maybe even some jazz/country if I ever get the chance." <--- Mark IV

"Finally, the amp will be used in an apt., so I'm hoping it will work well at lower levels, but also be capable of jamming w/ a drummer or playing small gigs if necessary." <--- Mark IV

 

[Sandman_61]

thanks for the great advice guys!! you have both swayed me towards the Mark IV. The price (used) is actually $1700, but I'm sure I can talk them down to at least 1600, probably closer to 1500. My price limit is right around 1500, so if they don't give me the Mark IV for around that price, then I'll end up goin with the Recto. I would shop around, but I'm financing this purchase with the Guitar Center credit card, so I'm limited to GC. Most likely, what I'll do is wait till the recto comes in, then sit down with both and try them both out side by side, make my decision then. One other thing, I have no clue how old the Mark IV is, but if its 5 years or older and has no warranty left, should I be concerned?

And yes, I considered the Roadster, if I had the money I would definitely go with that, but its too far out of my price range

 

[Red Suede]

You really should listen to the amps to determine the tone you want. I've owned most of the Boogies ( still have a Mk 2 C+ long head that I don't use any more because I needed a combo that rocked). The Rectifier combo filled the bill for me. The clean is good enough for me, the reverb is good enough, (Ive had plenty of blackfaces) and the lead channel has 3 modes of rock and roll that just gets better as you turn it up! But I like a Marshall type of distortion, and the Mk 2 C+ dosen't do that.

 

[Russ]

I wouldn't worry too much about the warranty being over if it is over 5 years old. Most of the bugs show up early in electronics anyway. Then it just becomes routine maintenance and the occasional hiccup. A 5 year old amp is nothing to scoff at. My Mark IV is 16 years old and really runs like a champ. The amp doesn't even make any noise when you make adjustments to the knobs or sliders. Just keep your amp maintained and you will never have any real problems with it. Granted you may eventually have something fail but it is just part of having something that you use. Aside from the tubes in mine everything else seems to be original as far as I can tell. My only problem is that my LED for the EQ status on the front of the amp is starting to go bad. I think it may just be a loose solder joint that is easily fixed but I haven't taken the time to fix it because it doesn't affect my sound.

Just as a side note, I have a 1977 Marshall JMP Master Model 50 watt MkII Lead that is 19 years old that has only ever had its tubes and a small cap replaced. The amp is in near perfect condition and plays like you wouldn't believe. Tube amps can be real good if you treat them right. If you abuse them they can cause you nightmares of repairshop visits.

 

[Micah]

Question for any Mark IV players out there--how do you get a scooped tone out of it--Im looking for theory's here that ultimatly lead to a nicer smooth tone. I heard it to be fairly harsh in the mids and Im curious how you users smooth it out to give you a chunkier sound?? :?:

 

[sunder]

The Mark IV has a 5-band EQ. So if you want scooped, just make a 'V'. I prefer a slightly less exagerated V myself.

I'm not sure where you got your information about its being harsh in the mids...The Mark IV is a fairly beautiful sounding amp.

 

[Russ]

First you dial up a nice sound in the regular tone knobs then adjust it with your onboard EQ. You have to be careful while dialing in your tone because if you use too much highs you loose some mid control. Then if you use too much mids you lose low end control. It is kind of a balancing act. This being said if you dial in too much gain your tone controls are less of an impact as well. Once you have your tone established though you just simply slide your way to heaven with the EQ. If you want a reduction in mids once you have your primary tone you just slip the sliders into a slight v or however drastic you want it to be. I would not suggest trying to remove all of your mids or you get something unusable in a live situation. If you want it chunkier you can drop your highs a little and raise your lows. I figure you know how to use an EQ right? A scooped tone is pretty easy to get. You just make a larger V on the EQ. To get a nice smooth tone it is a little more complicated because it depends upon what you consider nice and smooth. I can dial up just about anything I want now. It took me a little while but I figured it out. The only thing I can't make it do is Rectified Recto or even some of the looser sounds that the Recto can make. I don't expect it to because I just assume get a Recto for that and plan on it. The Mark IV is one hell of a tone machine though. You just have to know how to use it.

 

[srf399]

I've played for 30 years and I played all three of those amps and the Recto and the F50 are not even in the same league as the MKIV The Recto sounds like a Bumble Bee...awful amplifier...the worst amp I've ever used. The F50 is nice but the F30 is better. But you can get those sounds and more with the MKIV. You can put 6V6's in it... don't like those... put in EL34's.... simulclass... class A... a bazillion settings. Also... I used a vintage TS-808 with mine to get more bounce out of it... livens it up big time and acts as a solo boost. Whatever you get...buy a external cabinet...combos are mean't for clean playing...not chunk bottom end. I will admit the recto is a good metal rhythm amp. Butis poo when it comes to searing smooth solo work

 

[JamesD]

It seems the MarkIV is going to be your best choice with versatility. It may take longer to dial in, but once your there you will be happy.

 

[TheRazMeister]

You sir..are an idiot and should not be allowed to type....

The Recto sounds like a Bumble Bee...awful amplifier...the worst amp I've ever used. I will admit the recto is a good metal rhythm amp. Butis poo when it comes to searing smooth solo work

 

[srf399]

I've played the rectoverb and it is a very harsh amp... transistor buzz sounding and best saved for grunge playing in my humble opinion. This site is for opinions on amps is it not??? You just showed your imaturity by attacking another poster who's opinion differs from your own. How crude.

 

[Micah]

The Mark IV has a 5-band EQ. So if you want scooped, just make a 'V'. I prefer a slightly less exagerated V myself.

I'm not sure where you got your information about its being harsh in the mids...The Mark IV is a fairly beautiful sounding amp.

No slam on the Mark IV's I might get myself one one day. I just know from playing one for about 30 minutes that it has its tendency in the voicing to lean towards the upper mids (for lack of better terms its a "loud" sounding amp) where as say a rectifier tends to lean towards the bottom end in the voicing. Its just different thats all(maybe a good different!):wink:

So what your telling me is that you set your tone controls for a channel to where you can hear yourself and then get the feel of the amp through the auxillary 5 band on the front of the amp?

 

[TheRazMeister]

1st...I was just joking...so I'm sorry if I offended you. 8)
2nd. I don't know what you've done wrong in the way of EQ'ing the Rectoverb, but I can get everything from a country twang, ACDC, Classic Rock to Metal on mine. I tried about 25 amps before I purchased the Rec. And this coming from a guy (me) who was raised on Marshall tones and numbers Gary Moore and Michael Schenker as his biggest influences. One problem I see with the amp is that the treble and presence can be abused. The Treble in particular is part of the gain stage and will have an adverse affect on the tone if cranked. The other thing is that the amp comes alive at high volumes. I just recently played a gig and the other guitar player looked at me like he was dazed when he heard my amp. His comment was that a Marshall stack had nothing on my ROV. (we were playing a hard rock/heavy blues gig). Also, I'm a lead player, the lead tone is more important than rhythm...I wouldn't have bought the ROV unless it sang....which it does.

I've played the rectoverb and it is a very harsh amp... transistor buzz sounding and best saved for grunge playing in my humble opinion. This site is for opinions on amps is it not??? You just showed your imaturity by attacking another poster who's opinion differs from your own. How crude.

 

[Red Suede]

My sentiments exactly, Raz. This is the best combo amp i've ever had for Marshally type tones, even better than the Marshall combos i've heard. And it's pretty versatile too. The one drawback is you must turn it up a bit for the buzz to go away, it's not a bedroom amp. But with a band where you can wind it a bit, wow!

 

[TheRazMeister]

Here's a little trick that a poster taught me in another thread...when playing at low volumes, crank the output (amp master) up to at least 12:00 or 1:00 and then adjust the channel master accordingly...as in nearly off if its early in the morning or barely on for living room practising. It really warms up the sound.

My sentiments exactly, Raz. This is the best combo amp i've ever had for Marshally type tones, even better than the Marshall combos i've heard. And it's pretty versatile too. The one drawback is you must turn it up a bit for the buzz to go away, it's not a bedroom amp. But with a band where you can wind it a bit, wow!

 

[hal9000]

Question for any Mark IV players out there--how do you get a scooped tone out of it--Im looking for theory's here that ultimatly lead to a nicer smooth tone. I heard it to be fairly harsh in the mids and Im curious how you users smooth it out to give you a chunkier sound?? :?:

Try these settings:

 

[sunder]

No slam on the Mark IV's I might get myself one one day. I just know from playing one for about 30 minutes that it has its tendency in the voicing to lean towards the upper mids (for lack of better terms its a "loud" sounding amp) where as say a rectifier tends to lean towards the bottom end in the voicing. Its just different thats all(maybe a good different!):wink:

So what your telling me is that you set your tone controls for a channel to where you can hear yourself and then get the feel of the amp through the auxillary 5 band on the front of the amp?

No biggie, I just wanted to make sure you played one before buying. I can never figure out what an amp has more or less of, unless it is really obvious

With the Mark IV, I make it sound as good I can with the pots/doodads, then I set the 5-band for a slight scoopage to get a more brutal rhythm sound.

 

[Red Suede]

Thanks Raz. I'll try that.