Question about using effects with DC-10 combo.

[nosajwp]

Ok guys, here's what I'm planning on doing:

between guitar and input: OD, wah
in loop: chorus, delay/echo, phaser

Does this sound about right? I'm interested in getting a Pink Floyd kind of echo sound though, and I got to thinking about the loop. Would having a parallel loop mess up the echo part, since the uneffected signal is blended with the effected signal? Would it turn into a big mess?

 

[Joey707]

You might have trouble with the effects in the loop. You'll have to try it and see. If you do, try running the FX Mix control on the amp all the way up. So it's full wet. Then adjust the amount of effect you want on the unit or units themselves. When you do this the loop behaves more like a series loop than a parallel loop.

 

[plumptone]

I'm a DC-3 user, but I go for the same type of sound. After much experimentation I came up with the following approach. I don't use any external overdrive, since the amp handles it just fine.

Gtr > dunlop wah > mxr dynacomp compressor > mxr phase 90 > amp input.

By doing this, you are giving the front end of the amp a little push which in my opinion helps to open up the sound a little. The compression is absolutely key to the floyd sound. Trust me.

From the back of the amp: fx send > digitech delay pedal > chorus (I use a rack unit, but a pedal will obviously work too) > rack reverb (midiverb - but using the amp's internal reverb will do) > fx return.

I do not play around with the FX send level - I max it out and let the parameters on the fx units control the signal.

By keeping the phaser out of the fx loop, I'm able to get a MUCH cleaner sound, and by running the chorus and delay IN the loop, I'm able to really nail the floyd transparent gtr sound. The delay in the loop is optimal, because that way you are coming out of the amp right after the pre-amp section, modifying your signal, then bringing it back in before you hit the power amp. It actually helps define the sound, not muddy it up. Aslo, putting the chorus after the delay seems to help, although I'm not really sure why...it gives it a great layered sound when you're running the echo.

So basically, all I would do is take the phaser out of the fx loop in your set-up, and out it up front. But definitely get a compression pedal. If you want to nail floyd, it's the only way to go. Hope this helps a little.

 

[nosajwp]

Plumptone, thanks for the advice. That makes sense now. Do most delays do the echo thing, or would I have to look for one with that particular feature?

 

[plumptone]

If you want to get a really accurate spin on the vintage floyd sound, your best bet would be to use a unit that can emulate the old tape delays. Basically though, any decent delay unit will do the job pretty well. As I stated in my initial reply, I use an older digitech delay floor pedal. It's well over 15 years old now (was probably digitech's first shot at digital delay), and is not as clean as most of the newer units, which I think helps me get a pretty authentic floyd sound. The trick is to use it subtly. You can't let the echo dominate unless you're going for a Run Like Hell effect.

In general I keep the delay time set in the 500 to 1,000 ms range, have it do maybe 3 or 4 repeats (but set so they trail off), and set the effect to maybe 15-20% wet.

There's been a lot of discussion about the distinction between delay and echo, and while not everyone sees it the same way, the way I look at it is this: Delay is where you get the same sound coming back at you without any sort of trail off. Echo, on the other hand, has an initial repeat with each successive repeat getting quieter and quieter until it's faded away completely.

The advantage to using a floor unit as opposed to a rack unit is that on the newer ones you can do tap tempo (not feature I have), and also your effects bypass is right there for you - you don't have to spend any $ to buy a momentary/latching switch for a rack unit, or alternatively you don't have to keep going ober to your rack to manually bypass the effect.

Keeping it subtle is by far the best bet overall. If you listen closely to Gilmour, there's almost always an echo going on his solo work, but it's very hard to really pick it out as a separately identifiable sound.

 

[fdesalvo]

Interesting info here!

I have a DC-10 head and run a Tremolo through the front end. When I switch to the lead channel, the effect disappears as though the gain has washed it away. Through the rythm channel, the effect is very clear and apparent. Any ideas?

 

[nosajwp]

fdesalvo - you might want to try it in the loop. Right now, the only thing I have is a Boss chorus pedal between my guitar and amp. On the clean channel, it sounds excellent, but on lead, the gain completely eats up any chorus effect in the signal, even with the pedal maxed out. If you put it in the loop, the effect would actually be changing the high gain signal, so it would be much more effective there.

 

[plumptone]

He's right. The general rule of thumb is that pedals that affect the guitar's output (such as compression, overdrive etc) should go up front between the guitar and the amp. Almost all the other effects will sound WAY better when you are running through the fx loop. Also important is what order you run your effects chain in. The order you run the effects makes a huge anount of tonal difference to your overall sound when you are engaging multiple effects simultaneously. For example - do you want to delay your chorus or chorus your delay? There really is a difference in the way it sounds.

Bottom line though is play around with it - if it works for you in the loop, that's where you should put it. It won't hurt the amp at all.

 

[fdesalvo]

Thanks all!