Question about the Quad

[Razor]

I just got my Quad yesterday, and I must say it REALLY is a great change going from a PodXT to this. Really a sweet piece of gear.

However I have a few questions.

First I'll explain my setup.

Since I can't afford a good poweramp and speakers right now, I'm running this baby into my Randall V2XM 30watt combo's power section (namely the return FX) And yeah I know, it probably doesn't sound as the best combination considering the preamp is one of the best mesa preamps and the combo being a crappy practice combo, but that's all I got for now.

Second, I've noticed that even though my EQ is V shaped, the amps still seems to be abit too midd-y sorta speak. Now I need to get rid of the mids to get that Metallica like crunch. The quad already has the tightness and such, but the mids are bugging me. What settings should I use to get the aforementioned crunch?
Should I get another EQ to cut out the mids?

Really hope you guys can help me out on this.

Cheers

 

[axisman5150]

Hey Razor,

Congrats on the Quad!

I don't have a Quad but I do have the Studio Pre which is channel 1 of your Quad and to cut more mids out I use my Rocktron Multivalve's EQ to dial out some more mids to get that Metallica type tone. An external midi programmable Eq really works well with these units to get even more tones for the clean and lead channels.

Hey, in time you'll eventually get the amp/speakers you want at least you've got a great start with a killer preamp!

 

[ak47]

Welcome to this very very special and privledged club Razor!

As already stated, you now own the cornerstone to an absolutely killer rig....

I think the crunch you are after is largely a result of the power amps at work.... I think Metallica used to use Aphex parametric EQ's and run the Quad pre into marshalls for that EL34 rawness.

BUT... don't cut all your mids completely out.... just tweak them! Mids are needed when playing with a band and especially at stage volumes otherwise the crunch will turn quickly into mush!

 

[Razor]

Thanks. Although I'm not really too sure that everything is alright. I've noticed that the pull switch on the lead master doesn't work. Seems to be stuck. I've contatced the guy who sold me the preamp and he is wants to pitch in to fix it, as the preamp was delivered to me in such a state.

But that doesn't annoy me as much as this. Here's what I did. I plugged it DIRECTLY through the recording outputs and into my Line in jack on the soundcard, and I recoreded some clips just for refference. DOesn't really sound like that Boogie sound to me. Seems muddy and lacking definition. Even my PODXT can have a clearer tone than this thing. I forgot to mention that I have a Jackson JS30 with stock pickups, but it just seems ridiculous that the sound would be this bad.
Here's the clip by the way:
http://dump.no/files/cc6c924a59da/quad_orion.mp3
That doesn't quite sound Boogie like. I hate to say it but it kinda reminds me of an old Marshall MG I had once.


Any ideas on how to remedy the situation. I'm kinda new to tube driven amps, so what am I missing out in this tone.

I've kinda already told the guy that I might return the preamp as I'm not too happy about it, but if someone can recommend a good remedy and something that would help me get this preamp to it's sattisfying performance I'm willing to listen.


@AK47
Yes I am all well aware of this situation. And I know Metallica's equipment list to it's last detail, and all that you are saying is true, BUT I'm afraid that even if I do decide to keep the quad, and get a decent power amp someday (maybe within the next 6 months) the quad won't live up to it's reputation. I've already mentioned that some functions don't work. The pull switch on Lead master and now I've also noticed that reverb isn't working, so I'm thinking that perhaps there's something really wrong with it. If I'd return it, it'd be with a heavy heart as I really wanted a Quad preamp, hoping I'd get close to the justice tone, but, if this turns out to be a bad investment, then maybe it's better to send it back while I still can.

 

[Dr.StrangeNote]

Ok... what you need is a power section, 6L6's recommended. Before returning it, give it a try even at a local music store if you don't have a tube power amp, mainly Mesa. I'm sure they'll let you power it up with something they want to sell you. As for the sound, since you're runnning a Ferrari with a Volkswagen engine, you really can't justify tweaking the sound to get it where you want... Get my drift?

Lastly, If you're looking for somebody to take that Quad off your hands, even after matching it up with some tube power, and perhaps even a tube change, let me know...

 

[Razor]

That sounds like a great idea. I'll do EXACTLY that. I'll take it to a store, try a poweramp. I think there's one around here that has a SImulclass 2:90, so I'll ask them before hand if they'll let me try it on that one and see if it works. If I'm sattisified with the tone. I'll keep it.

As for getting it off my hands, I'll keep that option open, but I've already told the guy I might return it. But before I do that, I'll do what you suggested. It would be a real shame if I returned this baby, only to turn out that I was wrong about it later on.

 

[ak47]

Great idea to run it as it should be... should sound killer in a 2:90... but make sure they let you use two 4x12's for that stereo spread! :twisted:

Probably not a bad idea to get a tech to check it over and ask the previous owner about its service history... From the sound of it, it's about time for the pots to be cleaned anyway and the tube driver for the reverb may need replacing... Just remember that these things are made for touring and can easily be serviced... just get the best tech you can and look after that relationship!

As for the recording outs, stick with your Pod if you go direct. The Quad can get some useful sounds using these but they by no means suit all applications.. Having said that, mike one of these babes up with stereo cabinets in a tight room with some good mikes and it will sound killer!

You may also want to check some Quad settings we have here and feel free to add your own!
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=27607

 

[Razor]

Thanks man. Really appreciate all the advices.

I'll see if I can get it serviced. Plus I think I'll settle with it. It'd be a real shame to sell it as it is probably one of the best preamps in the world. It probably just needs some attention. I'm gonna put Mesa 12AX7 premium tubes, and see if I can get it cleaned. Hopefully it won't cost too much.

Also, earlier today I tried to sorta get that Lead master pulled out. Unfortunately it broke, Trying to glue it didn't exactly work as planned. But I'm thinking since the said pot on channel 2 works well, I might just swap em as soon as I find someone who can solder it for me. Since I'm not really much interested in the channel 2. I preffer the Mark II crunch anyway.
Another but slightly costly alternative would be to buy a brand new pot, like this one here. http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/product_info.php?products_id=1401
It says it's for the mark IV but it should work on the quad as well, right?

And yes I already saw that thread. It is what actually brought me to this forum. Some of those tones are pretty good especially the bluesy ones. I could tell even through my crappy speakers that the tone was alright.

 

[Razor]

Please, can someone answer the question about the push/pull pot. I really need an aswer on that one. DOn't intend to bump a thread, but this is important.

 

[ak47]

I would get the replacement pot if I was you... channel 2 also has a lot to offer so I would not mess with it.

Have you tried giving Boogie a call...? They should be able to point you in the right direction and have always been helpful with my enquiries!

 

[Razor]

Hmm yeah, but I kinda bought the quad primarily for the Channel 1 (mark IIC sound).

About giving them a call, hmm that might be kinda costly as I'm from Norway. International calls are really expensive.
Don't they have an email service?

 

[ak47]

Hmm yeah, but I kinda bought the quad primarily for the Channel 1 (mark IIC sound).

About giving them a call, hmm that might be kinda costly as I'm from Norway. International calls are really expensive.
Don't they have an email service?

Contact their hollywood store... email is in this link and they answer quite quickly:

http://www.mesaboogiehollywood.com/Contact.htm

 

[Razor]

Thanks a bunch man. Really appreciate all the help.

 

[dmt]

having just bought a Quad myself, I can give you a few words of advice based on what I have figured out.

I made a vid on youtube, with the recording outs, and it sounds decent. I've since figured out that the delay i was using is a tone suck, and needs to go before the preamp. Anyway here is my vid.

http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx1yUGeTCm8

Now for the technical ****. I got my Quad with stock Mesa preamp tubes of indeterminate age. The labels were mixed, so they were probably all different. The only 'new' tubes were new production Tung-Sols in the input for Channel 1/Channel 2.

I played with the settings an got a decent sound out of it running through a Simul-Satellite combo, using jsut the power amp. Sounded sweet. I replaced the MESA tubes with some vintage (not necessarily NOS, but not new production) tubes. I HIGHLY recommend that you go and buy a bunch of older or NOS tubes and try them out. I have a few RCA 12AX7's in there and a few Sylvania tubes of various types (12AV7, 12AT7) and some other tubes from back in the day. These made a HUGE change. It went from sounding thin to sounding ballsy.

http://www.tubefreak.com/mesa.htm#quad

Get a decent poweramp, and for fucks sake make sure it has a graphic eq on it. Especially if its a boogie. I ran the Quad through the Simul-Satellite with the EQ out, but after adjusting it it has so much more umpf.

The GEQ of the poweramp will affect the powertubes alot more than the GEQ thats on the Quad. The GEQ on the Quad is still post preamp, but its not directly connected to the powersection like the GEQ on your poweramp... Thats just what I've found.

As for recording... yeah it sounds weak when you record through the recording outs. Its better than just guitar > computer > effects. But not by much. I can get a decent tone out of it, but its nowhere near as versatile. You have to understand that you are losing alot of harmonics and dynamics that are present in your tone when going through a power section and a speaker. Tube amps are HIGHLY reactive to changes in volume (signal), when running the preamp direct, you lose all the benefits of using tubes, and you get a signal that is weak and thin. Your podXT will sound better direct because the whole signal is digital and manipulated digitally. It will sound more or less the same at any given volume. But when you run a tube amp cranked, it will sound much fuller and louder.

I doubt Metallica recorded that preamp direct.

So, you need a Poweramp (with a GEQ) and some 'new' (NOS) tubes. The NOS tubes will do wonders for your tone, and a real poweramp will fatten up your tone.

 

[Razor]

Hey DMT. Thank you SO MUCH for the outstanding info you've provided.
Yeah I DID think that a good poweramp will make the sound better, and yeah I'm gonna get me one. I was thinking about getting a simulclass 295 (if I'm lucky) or at least a Mesa 50/50, which I don't believe is a simulclass but it has different voicing options. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I've seen the simul satelite eariler somewhere but they are REALLY hard to find. I didn't even know those things existed till about a few months ago.
Are there possibly any other poweramps I can use which can deliver the similar effect?

As for NOS tubes, I looked them up and they are expensive AS HELL! And my amp needs 8 new tubes. I just got word from the previous owner that they are about 1,5 years old, so retubing must be done pretty soon.
I was thinking about going for Mesa's 12ax7 (premium). I don't think I could go TOO WRONG with those.

And by the way, I saw your vid. It is actually the first vid I looked up when I was looking for Quad sound demos. Great playing!

 

[dmt]

I have a few responses.

the 295 would be killer. You would pretty much be set for life. period. the 50/50 would also be a good choice, but i am not rally familiar with them as far as voicing, i believe they have a 'deep' mode and maybe a modern/vintage mode. not sure. 50 watts however is plenty.

your best bet is really a simul 295, or 395, or really just about any boogie poweramp will do the job just fine. Simul-Class is the icing on the cake. The Quad was meant to be paired with the 295 or 395, and that combo would get you probably somewhere near the shortstop in the ballpark/stadium of the Mesa Mark IIC+ tone... really fucking close.

As for the tubes. 1.5 years for preamp tubes is nothing. Preamp tubes last a long as time. I think even new production tubes last somewhere around 3000 hours (correct me if im wrong). I do know for a fact that the MilSpec NOS tubes from the 50's/60's were rated at 10,000 hours, so 3000 hours isnt really that high. Preamp tubes don't neet to be retubed every year like power tubes, but they should be changed at somepoint.

You can find a really good deal on NOS tubes or just 'used' tubes without having to buy the "premium" collectors **** that everyone pushes on ebay. Yes I know the Quad has 8 tubes, and I was fortunate enough to have 8 NOS (used) tubes around to try. I probably spent $100 bux or so on them, over time. I found someone local who was selling em and got a deal.

You can go to a ham radio festival/swap meet and find tubes that are used lightly and cheap. You'll have a good chance of finding tubes that are not abused, not brand new, definitely usable, and cheap. Most of those guys know what they have, but they use it for purposes other than tone, so theyre not likely to destroy the tubes they use searching for 'grail tone'.

You can also look for re-labeled tubes. Back in the day, many tubes you got were labeled lets say 'RCA' but were produced by Sylvania due to shortages. They also relabled tubes for cetain products and companies. I have a few 12AX7's that are probably RCA, but are labeled "Lowery Organs'. Those are usually cheaper.... You don't need to splurge on a bunch of premium tubes, my whole point was tube produced 20 years ago sound much better than ones today.

I'll see if i can find some ebay auctions of what i'm talking about... some decent tubes that aren't super expensive...

 

[Razor]

Thanks for the reply.

Okay I didn't know that they can last that long.

Anywho when I opened the quad, the tubes were groove tubes or something. I hope these aren't really crap.

I looked up NOS as well a bit but well it's hard to find some reasonably priced ones. But ahh well we'll see.

I just saw a 295 on sale here a few days ago, but I don't have the cash to buy it at this time. I already spent quite a bit on the Quad. So I'll either buy one at the later time, or just get buy the first best thing I see.

On the other hand, I just had a jam with the band, and I saw in the practice room that they brought in some new gear, among others, a JCM2000 Marshall. These have a FX loop, so I can kinda plug the Quad in the return jack and see how it sounds with a tube poweramp. Hopefully it won't be crap.

 

[hirah]

the quad into the jcm and a ajcm cab will sound great, but not as aggresive. imo the marshall cabs kind of scoop the mids and smooth out the tone. great when mixed with another cab, but different when its by itself.

 

[ak47]

I dig Marshall cabs... they fit my personal taste. However I am pretty keen to try Orange and Hiwatt cabs sometime...

I used to use the original old mesa 50/50 with my Quad and it sounded fantastic... highly, highly recommended and probably easy to pick up quite cheaply... BUT... then I switched to a strategy 500 and nothing has ever come close. :evil:

Having said that, as dmt pointed out; a simul 295 or 395 would also be very, very tasty for that class A 'snap'...

Another alternative would be to run it through a pair of heads or combos... how about an AC30 to the left and a JMP marshall stack to the right?!?

 

[Razor]

Hmm I don't think I have the money to afford heads, but if I see a 50/50 I'll get it. Or even better if I see a 295, I'll take that instead. It's definitely more power than I need for home use, but on stage it would crush everything. I just wanna have that simul class glorious sound.