Preamp tubes to tighten and thicken Single Rectifier

[canyongargon]

I would like to add a little bit of tightness and thickness to the sound of my Recto. At present, I have the stock preamp tubes in and I want to know what combination of tubes I could use to make it sound less thin and brittle. I use Mesa EL34s in the amp as I prefer a more midrange oriented tone and it also helps to tighten the amp up although not as much as I would like.

What combination of preamp tubes would work best in a Single Rectifier to add warmth, thickness, and tightness over the stock Mesa 12AX7s?

Edit: The Mesa preamp tubes in my amp are:

V1: Russian 2
V2: Russian 2
V3: Chinese 1
V4: Chinese 1
V5: Russian 2

I believe that means I've got a combination of EH and Shuguang 9th Gen tubes?

 

[fishyfishfish]

You can go the tube route to tighten up the Recto, but the best bet would be throwing a TS9 in the front end to tighten it up.
For pre's I found that rolling a couple NOS in V1 took the fizz and warmed it up a bit, but nothing like a pedal did.
Power Tubes for my Recto I liked TAD 6L6GC.
Hope this helps!

 

[canyongargon]

I spoke to Doug at Doug's Tubes today on the phone and he recommended the following:

V1: Tung-Sol
V2: JJ High Gain
V3: Ruby AC7
V4: Shuguang 9th Gen
V5: Sovtek

I'm assuming his approach here is to try to get thickness through tonal diversity between the varied tubes? I know Doug knows what he's talking about, but can anyone chime in on this particular tube combo?

I know I have a spare Tung-Sol lying around here somewhere, I'm gonna try and locate it and toss it in V1. Doug said this should tell me if I'm at least on the right track tonally. I've heard the Tung-Sols are extremely good V1 tubes, maybe this'll be enough of a change to give me that little bit of extra "oomph" I want.

I'm thinking for experiment number one, I'm gonna remove the stock Mesa/EH tube from V1 and replace it with my Tung Sol, and then replace the stock V3 Mesa/Shuguang with the Mesa/EH from V1.

 

[domct203]

I think you will like the Tung-Sol reissue in V1. Don't put the EH in V3, as it is a cathode follower position and the Russian-1 (Sovtek) and Russian-2 (EH) have been known to fail there. You can read about it here:
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=25102&hilit=Memo&start=19

Dom

 

[canyongargon]

I think you will like the Tung-Sol reissue in V1. Don't put the EH in V3, as it is a cathode follower position and the Russian-1 (Sovtek) and Russian-2 (EH) have been known to fail there. You can read about it here:
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=25102&hilit=Memo&start=19

Dom

Thanks for the tip, I'll put the Shuguang back in right now. I played it for a little bit with the EH in V3 and everything was fine, I didn't accidentally hurt anything, did I? I doubt it, since as far as I know it's pretty difficult to hurt anything involved with preamp tubes, but I figure I should ask.

And so, for further reference, I should stick to Penta/Shuguang tubes exclusively in V3 and V4? And I'm assuming Ruby tubes are rebranded Shuguang/Pentas, hence Doug's recommendation for the Ruby AC7 in V3.

 

[94Tremoverb]

Here is a much simpler formula that does not involve worrying about what tube goes where or cathode-follower problems or anything at all except that it will do exactly what you wanted - "warmth, thickness, and tightness over the stock Mesa 12AX7s"...

(or for that matter, any modern 12AX7s)

RFTs throughout.

 

[canyongargon]

Here is a much simpler formula that does not involve worrying about what tube goes where or cathode-follower problems or anything at all except that it will do exactly what you wanted - "warmth, thickness, and tightness over the stock Mesa 12AX7s"...

(or for that matter, any modern 12AX7s)

RFTs throughout.

I assume you're referring to these?

God, would I like to get my hands on a couple of these. So expensive though. Probably totally worth it.

 

[94Tremoverb]

Yes, those. I'm surprised how much they are now, they used to be fairly cheap for NOS tubes... it may be worth shopping around a bit. But even at that price, yes they are worth it. They not only sound great, they have a long life expectancy and very low tendency to microphonics, like it says. I don't quite agree about them being 'dark', I would say they're more full and powerful. It's not that they have less top-end, they still have plenty of bite, just that it's not harsh like a lot of modern tubes are... nor muddy, like (IMO) JJs and most Sovteks.

 

[212Mavguy]

+1 for trem's post.

 

[InsomniaClown]

I had an RFT in my V1 position of my rectoverb for about 2 hours once. I thought it sounded pretty decent. Turned off the amp, turned it back on, and the RFT was fried, and yes, I turned my amp back on correctly. It was weird, like a sine wave type sound. Anyways, that was $40 down the drain. Thankfully, I bought 2, but I haven't had the courage to put the other one in yet. I really thought they sounded a bit loose for my taste, but its been awhile. Might through that other one in tomorrow and try it out.

My opinion though is that el34's combined with a TS9 will make a huge difference in the thickness and tightness of your tone. Thats what I did recently, and I think its made more of a difference than any preamp tube combo I have tried. My 2 cents, add salt as needed.

Edit: Put the RFT in V1. V2 & V4 are Mesa 12ax7, V3 Shunguang 12ax7b, V5 Tung sol with matched sections, SED =C= EL34's in the power section. Clean tone is magic, and unholy things have happened to my modern channel. I usually run the lead channel in vintage mode, but modern mode is killer now! Palm mutes were hitting hard, tone was thick, tight and crunchy. What else can I say? Maybe try that RFT after all. Didn't even have the TS 9 in the front.

 

[ltd2recto]

I thought the RFT was too bassy in the rectifier. Love it in v3 of my mark III though.

That said Im against the grain as far as JJ 12ax7's go. They are a dark tube. I like them in v1 only. Cuts some fizz & adds some mids. To counter on the clean channel I run the presence at 3 o clock.

Even then a TS-9 type OD will help out. Adds harmonics, cuts lows & boost mids.

 

[InsomniaClown]

The RFT is pretty bassy, but I find that its not too boomy or too full sounding. Playing my EMG 81 loaded LTD f 400 through a fulltone plimsoul into my rectifier lead channel set to modern mode, I get a nice thick tone that has nice definition on palm mutes. Chords are nice and defined as well. The sound isn't muddy at all. The best improvement is that the sound is now smoothed out more and not as harsh in modern mode as it once was.

On my flying V though, its a different story. Quite muddy and boomy, but that has more to due with the guitar. It resonates like crazy. That's where the TS 9 comes in handy.

One thing I have noticed though. There is more "ssshhhhh" noise in the amp, so I am going to have to get another tube to try and lower that.