pre 500 DR's - Mesa Hollywood opinion...

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ibanez4life SZ!

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Loved the Stiletto Ace when I played it....agree with you on the Roadster though....when I played it, I wasn't really impressed with the cleans, or the gain either... :?

As for the DR differences, I have not had the chance to actually A/B a 2 and 3 channel side by side.....actually, I have never played a 2 channel....

So I can't help much there....but to be honest, I can't see Mesa killing such a good tone in an amp that is so popular....is the two channels were the grail, I don't think they would have screwed with it.....for example, they didn't "kill" the tone of the Mark IV over the years :wink:
 
They were on a quest to improve the design. They managed to get a better clean with the 3 channel and more options.

The pre500 actually being pre600 I can't see. Someone posted otherwise recently.

As far as an A/B 2 ch to 3 ch is concerned I am sure that the settings would be way different between the two depending upon which 2 ch. I am also sure that there would be things that each amp couldn't match. I am not a Mesa employee but I don't have to sell their gear wares either. If Mesa were to go bankrupt because of failing current production sales I wouldn't be out of a job either.

I think it is a shame that Mesa Hollywood can't get their frequency interruption under control. That is kind of silly.

As far as screwing up a grail amp is concerned... does IIC+ ring a bell?
 
It's all about finding the amp that works for you. Some folks on this board like the Mark Series, some the Recto Line, the Lonestar, or the Stiletto. It's all about personal taste. Maybe the 3ch can acheive the tone of 2 ch's that's for the individual person to determine.

Mesa told me basically the same thing that the Hollywood tech told rabies. The settings won't match but the tone will. I would love to sit down and A/B them but my ear (right, wrong or indifferrent) says 2 channel are warmer and the gain is smoother. I've been in the presence of several older 2 ch's; 822 and lower, and that is what I prefer.

My current taste test is if I'm going to like a Mark III, Mark IV A or Mark IV B better. I just can't seem to sit down with any!
 
Russ said:
As far as screwing up a grail amp is concerned... does IIC+ ring a bell?

Would you call that screwing up, really? The Mark IV is an amazing amp. They (at least claim that they) don't have have the components to manufacter the IIC+ anymore... so not really their fault.
 
It is good to have someone who's heard them all, put that myth to rest finally.

In terms of the Mark IV I recently special ordered one (shipped from another store) and finally got to audition it. I really wanted to like it given all the great comments I have heard, but it honestly didn't cut the mustard. I know the amp requires time to tweak and I think I gave it a fair shake being a master tweaker from way back :wink: . Sure it was nice and tight sounding, nice harmonics, but a bit too "bouncy" for me, I guess I prefer a slightly harder edge to my sound if that makes sense. Even the quasi-overdriven tones did nothing for me, which I had really been looking forward to, I honestly thought the Mark IV would do a better job of that. Given the rave reviews this amp gets I suppose it must boil down to personal taste after all.

Actually during this process I tried out many other amps, more than I ever have before when amp shopping. I am fortunate to have a store in my area that stocks many manufacturers and amp styles and has staff who never seem to mind me to sitting in the private room auditioning them, A/Bing them etc. for literally hours at a time...from various models of marshalls to fender to orange to peavey to H&K to mesa to soldano to... I ended up buying a Soldano Hot Rod 50+, it got me much closer to my tone than anything else out there (sacrilige I know, sorry :wink: ). I will probably keep my Roadster as well, if I can afford to. :oops:
 
Sorry to hear the Stiletto didn't wow you, give it another shot at a different place, the fluid drive mode has too much gain for my taste even, I run it pretty low. Try it with a Les Paul too :p
 
it's all about marketing and making sales. Chances are half of the guys working at Mesa have never even heard a pre500, or don't even know about their existence.

Guess what....I have. Hundreds of times. I've also heard a 3ch hundreds of times. There is NO COMPARISON, even with the same tubes, guitar, etc.! The pre500's really do slay the 3ch's like there's no tomorrow. Don't buy into Mesa's hype!

I'm not trying to be cocky, I'm just telling the truth! There is no benefit to me for making any of this up, but there are tons of sales for them to lose by making a little white lie. I'm not lying when I say it only takes hitting your first chord to realize the difference.

As for the 2c+, they went after that tone when they did the Mark4, but they no longer had access to the same parts, thus the difference in tone.
 
I've owned a 3ch. and two 2 ch. and there is no way they sound the same. I've yet to hear anyone who has A/B'd the 2 say otherwise. Of course Mesa would say their current product sounds the same...that's what they're selling.
 
visualrocker69 said:
Would you call that screwing up, really? The Mark IV is an amazing amp. They (at least claim that they) don't have have the components to manufacter the IIC+ anymore... so not really their fault.

I can say that the Mark IV is an amazing amp.

They don't have the parts to make IIC+'s anymore. Parts can be spec'd though. They don't want to make the IIC+ anymore.

They don't want to make the 2 ch DR anymore either.

It isn't like the trannies had extremely rare earth metals only found on a single expeditionary mission to Mars that were used up making either amp. I think today's technology is capable but they just aren't willing. They took the time to reissue the Mark I. I don't see why they wouldn't reissue more amps or at least allow people to order them. They could P2P them if they had to. The lack of PCB's is retarded. They used to make their own. They should be able to have that as part of their custom shop. As much as I would like to think Boogie has remained a nice little family run boutique builder, they are turning into another production company like any other except you can order real wood cabinets, different coverings and a different exterior trim.
 
I agree with Oyster about the MarkIV I thought it was descent but nothin over the top. Too many knobs for me and I wasnt comfortable with the shared EQ. The IV is definately an amp you better hear and play in person before you buy.I went in with intentions to go home with it too and have demoed it a couple of times. I'll stick with the Ace/Lonestar tagteam.
 
Tone is subjective. The old saying "One man's trash is anothers treasure" could definitely be applied to guitarists. The ideal tone of one guy could be nothing but brittle, thin mush to the next. And I'm glad it's that way, otherwise we'd all be playing the same amps with copycat tones. To me, a difference in opinion among guitarists is a good thing!

For the Recto's...I've owned more than I care to admit. I've tried to count them up, and at this point, I know it's been well over 10. That spans 2 channel and 3 channel models, Dual and Triple, pre-500 and later 2 channel, etc. Of those, the one I decided to keep was a '94 Dual (from 5/94, still made with attached power cord, small logo, etc). Why? Because I liked it the best and it had the tone I was looking for more so than the others.

I've ran them through multiple cabs at various times. Initially a Marshall 1960A (which sounded surpringly good with a '99 Dual I bought new back in the day), a Marshall 1960BV w/Vintage 30's, Mesa Standard (Oversized) Recto Slanted 4X12, Mesa Recto Traditional (Normal) 4X12 (which I kept), etc. I've played with Gibsons, Epiphones, Fenders, etc...and with multiple pickups...EMG's, Gibson Iommi and 496R/500T sets, etc.

With that said, I started my "tone quest" by buying my first Recto new at the time - a '99 Dual (back when they were only $1199). That amp sounded amazing. Thick tone, punchy, tight and articulate, etc. I sold that amp (unfortunately) to move after college, did some amp swapping, and ended up with a 3 channel Triple once I got some cash saved up again. Didn't even know they started making a 3 channel model until I bought that one (new), which was a first production run of the 3 channels. That amp was killer. Say what you will about 3 channels, but that amp was insanely good. I decided I was going to go to grad school at that point, and once again, I had to sell a great amp to afford it. The joys of college life!

After that, I bought a 3 channel Triple Recto used. My first one sounded great, so I assumed they all would...and I couldn't have been more wrong! It sounded weak, thin, and fizzy compared to my original 3 channel I bought new. So, I sold it off, tried another...same results. After swapping through multiple 3 channel models, I never found another that sounded as remotely good as my first one. So, I decided to try a 2 channel model. Sure enough, it sounded good! So, I started trying out various 2 channel models over time.

When I tried out the 2 channel models, I tried older pre-500 models (serial less than 100, all black models, etc) as well as later models. I ran across my '94 Dual in my search, and it was pretty much the tone I was looking for. But, there was so much hype about pre-500 models, I had to give them a try. I called Mike B. and some others at Mesa to discuss them. I wanted to inquire about the differences and see if it would be worth my effort to try a pre-500 model. To paraphrase, I was basically told "There's minimal differences in the pre-500 and the '94 you have. The overdrive is virtually the same, with the main difference being you currently have an improved clean channel. I'd rather have the '94". And there's no money motivation for them to tell me that. The 2 channels were discontinued at the time, I was buying used, and either way it was no extra cash in their pocket.

Well, I couldn't take it at face value and decided to try multiple pre-500 models. I bought them and compared them with the '94 I really liked. A handful of models later...I ended up keeping the '94 and selling off the pre-500 models (along with a IIC+ I had at the time). With a little tweaking, I did get the tones nearly identical in the amps, and sure enough, I liked the clean channel better in the '94.

So, from someone who A/B'd quite a few, I can say that back then I was able to get nearly identical tones. I don't know the logistical difference, but a small tweak in the bass and presence knobs here and there let me dial in tones that I doubt hardly anyone could pick apart in a blind tone test. The clean channel was much improved in the '94, though.

And despite the "3 channel models suck" mentality, looking back...one of the best I've ever had was an original run 3 channel Triple. I'd probably take it second only to my '94 I have now. That amp sounded so **** good that I actually tracked down the guy who bought it from 2 years prior at that point and told him to let me know if he ever wanted to sell it...but it was already sold.

Anyway, let your ears decide, not preconceived notions on what's "supposed" to sound good.
 
I've heard and played through a variety of DR's and TR's and I like my pre500 the best. Tone is subjective, and being a current pre500 owner I realize that I am biased. But im sticking with my pre500 for the tones I am looking for.
 
clutch71 said:
Anyway, let your ears decide, not preconceived notions on what's "supposed" to sound good.

Amen, Brother. Amen.

I agree... I have a two channel... but there are three channel amps that sound good.

I seriously doubt that people would be able to hear the major variance in a 2 to a 3 channel if both amps are to spec... I would like to hear someone disprove that...
 
None of the later versions sound quite like a pre 500. After going through 6 two channels, a three channel and two Road King's, none of them capture the smooth, fat singing quality of the R0232. The Red mode is the least mushy as well. The later versions just seem to lack the drive on the orange and tightness on the Red.
The RF-1F from 94 and 95 were the closest version, but still did not quite have the smooth lead tone or the sense of gain available on tap.
The later revisions became brighter and looser.
The RF-1C had no problem being brittle or having the Recifier's flubby bottom. Going through a host of 2 Channels, you will find ones that sound exeptionally good that seem to have a bit smoother lead tone and tighter bottom end. When I had the 3 Channel I was not impressed at all with any of it. It popped and the clean was sterile, the lead lacked urgency and the Modern mode was all flub. I only kept it about three months before selling it in disgust. About three years later I was checking out a Music Man EVH at GC and plugged into a new 3 Channel and it totally blew me away. No pop, great lead tone and a much tighter bottom end. The RK 1 was not the most impressive amp. The clean was not the best and the lead was decent, but the Modern tone was again flubby. The RK II was pretty much awesome. It had most of the qualities of a good DR with an awesome lead tone and the best clean period. It popped like mad and I could not take a $ 2699 popper, but the RK II and RK II v.2 are tonally awesome. Up until the RK II I never saw the use of a clean channel on an Rectifier, from the RF-1C to to the RK 1. They all pretty much lacked soul. I never bought an amp to play clean anyway so I never looked at it as a profound loss. If I had to play clean, I have always done it in stereo to an old twin reverb, two MK series or an ADA MP1 anyway. In almost all of the high gain amps in the late 80's and 90's the clean was always an after thought, but again we were not looking for cleans. How many guitar players snubbed the SLO 100 because the clean channel sucked? In summing the RF-1C, it's like an SLO 100 with a fatter lead tone and you have the sense of the depth mod on the red channel.
You can still play lead on the red channel, which is a bonus, but in the end the cleans still suck but who cares. After spending tons on the other DR's, I would personally shoot someone for even touching the early DR. Even the maid is banned from the room. It's an amazing glimpse of what was for a very short time. I'm not blowing a trumpet either. I was basically looking to try another Dual Rectifier, but wanted a chrome chassis. It was listed on G-Base as a mid 90's and it was $ 900. It looked clean, so I bought it only to find it was # 232 after I opened the box. Within 2 minutes I could notice the difference from all that came before it. A happy accident. :D
 
The RF-1F from 94 and 95 were the closest version, but still did not quite have the smooth lead tone or the sense of gain available on tap. what would be the difference of 92 rf 1f from 94/95 rf1f?.... im going to be sending my 92 out to petaluma in a few weeks ,could they change the revision f to a C? great post b.t.w. :D
 
Funny thing is, I had an original first run of the 3 channel Dual Recto, and like you say, it sounded **** good. I regret selling that amp, it was my first mesa and the first tube amp I had ever purchased brand new. Maybe there was a little something special in that first run that we do not know about. i have since played newer 3 channels and have not beein impressed, although they are getting better now that they are shipped with 440 tubes.

Silverwulf said:
did some amp swapping, and ended up with a 3 channel Triple once I got some cash saved up again. Didn't even know they started making a 3 channel model until I bought that one (new), which was a first production run of the 3 channels. That amp was killer. Say what you will about 3 channels, but that amp was insanely good. .
 

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