Power tube saturation
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Heritage Softail
Well-known member
That is the way it was explained to me. Someone here posted on "taking the blanket" off of the MK1 mode by cranking up the master volume on ch2, lower gain, then using the output to get the volume manageable. That is spot on, for MK1 as well as getting a vintage Black Sabbath NIB type of sound out of Tweed in Ch2. I switched tubes out to SED Winged C 6L6 and Tung Sol 12ax7's. Like the way they overdrive. Brought much more heat in lower gain/higher master combinations for an organic crunchy tone. Sounds good loud... earplugs....
Just one opinion though.
Just one opinion though.
stephen sawall
Well-known member
Power tube saturation only comes with volume. You are only changing gain in different parts of the preamp or phase inverter.
The power section of most amps is not really pushing till you are up at loud drummer or louder.
Some amps do not sound very good till the power section is be driven hard. Others like the Mark amps it does not make as much difference. I use a THD Hot Plate to control the volume with poweramp distortion with my Tremoverb and I feel it helps a lot with the over all sound.
The power section of most amps is not really pushing till you are up at loud drummer or louder.
Some amps do not sound very good till the power section is be driven hard. Others like the Mark amps it does not make as much difference. I use a THD Hot Plate to control the volume with poweramp distortion with my Tremoverb and I feel it helps a lot with the over all sound.
stephen sawall
Well-known member
All I am saying is the power amp is not driving till there is a fair amount of volume.
The two controls you are talking about do not directly control the power amp. But any combination of the two them that well cause power amp distortion ~ including power tube saturation ~ well be very loud.
I am not saying do or not do anything.
There is no right or wrong when setting up a sound with the controls .... just different taste.
The two controls you are talking about do not directly control the power amp. But any combination of the two them that well cause power amp distortion ~ including power tube saturation ~ well be very loud.
I am not saying do or not do anything.
There is no right or wrong when setting up a sound with the controls .... just different taste.
94Tremoverb
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Don't pay any attention to those cheap little boxes you can buy on Ebay called 'amp boosters' or 'volume boxes' and which claim to let you push the power tubes harder either... they don't. *All* they do is give you another master volume control in the FX loop - which is especially useless on a Mesa since that's exactly what the Output Level or Loop Active Master controls do. They simply give a different range to the *preamp* controls.
The *only* way to get power tube overdrive is to play at physically higher volume levels, as stephen said. If that's then too loud, you can reduce the volume with a *power* attenuator, which goes between the amp and the speaker, and is always a fairly large, heavy and expensive device - because they have to be in order to absorb the full power of the amp safely without burning out either themselves or the amp - don't let anyone sell you something called an 'attenuator' that isn't.
The cheap little volume boxes do actually have a very useful function on amps which either don't have an overall master volume, or overly-sensitive channel volumes, by the way - a great example is the Fender Hotrod series - but they still aren't letting you push the tubes harder. And they are not 'amp boosters' - they only *cut* signal.
The *only* way to get power tube overdrive is to play at physically higher volume levels, as stephen said. If that's then too loud, you can reduce the volume with a *power* attenuator, which goes between the amp and the speaker, and is always a fairly large, heavy and expensive device - because they have to be in order to absorb the full power of the amp safely without burning out either themselves or the amp - don't let anyone sell you something called an 'attenuator' that isn't.
The cheap little volume boxes do actually have a very useful function on amps which either don't have an overall master volume, or overly-sensitive channel volumes, by the way - a great example is the Fender Hotrod series - but they still aren't letting you push the tubes harder. And they are not 'amp boosters' - they only *cut* signal.
Heritage Softail
Well-known member
stephen sawall said:
Interesting, I am ending up with a loud volume in the settings I use. MK1 seems sort of dark sounding at lower volumes, to me. With less gain and more volume it is sweet. Thx for the technical explanation of why that system works.
I get up and practice b4 work, 5 a.m., and it is WAY to early to crank the amp to where it gets into that sweet spot. Maybe that THD unit is the way to go.
Peace 8)
stephen sawall
Well-known member
HS ....
If you are talking about your V ~ I believe it is similar to my IV and the other Mark amps I have used with my THD Hot Plate. It does make for some interesting sounds but not enough of a improvement that I use it most of the time.
With my vintage amps with no master volume and some amps that really need the power section pushed like my Tremoverb it is a great tool for controlling the volume.
Because the IV has a great master volume and the power section is not huge part of the distortion .... the preamp is .... it does not help a lot.
When using a Hot Plate it well change the tone and compress the sound some what ..... so after setting the volume on the Hot plate I fine tune the controls on the amp for this new sound.
Part of what you are hearing with it turned up is the speakers working harder. That often makes the sound better.
The hot plate sounds best in the -4 and -8 dB settings. After that it changes the tone a lot more and compresses a lot more. the 4/8 setting are great for live use and getting a little control of the volume. You can use it to bring a cranked amp down to bedroom volume .... but it is not it's best use of it. I often use -12 and -16 dB but it is a compromised sound a lot of times.
I highly recommend checking it out with your full rig and spend a little time with it before spending the money to see if it does what you need. .... or buy a used one so you do not loose money when you sell it.
Who knows you may love it with your amps ?
If you are talking about your V ~ I believe it is similar to my IV and the other Mark amps I have used with my THD Hot Plate. It does make for some interesting sounds but not enough of a improvement that I use it most of the time.
With my vintage amps with no master volume and some amps that really need the power section pushed like my Tremoverb it is a great tool for controlling the volume.
Because the IV has a great master volume and the power section is not huge part of the distortion .... the preamp is .... it does not help a lot.
When using a Hot Plate it well change the tone and compress the sound some what ..... so after setting the volume on the Hot plate I fine tune the controls on the amp for this new sound.
Part of what you are hearing with it turned up is the speakers working harder. That often makes the sound better.
The hot plate sounds best in the -4 and -8 dB settings. After that it changes the tone a lot more and compresses a lot more. the 4/8 setting are great for live use and getting a little control of the volume. You can use it to bring a cranked amp down to bedroom volume .... but it is not it's best use of it. I often use -12 and -16 dB but it is a compromised sound a lot of times.
I highly recommend checking it out with your full rig and spend a little time with it before spending the money to see if it does what you need. .... or buy a used one so you do not loose money when you sell it.
Who knows you may love it with your amps ?
stephen sawall
Well-known member
The other thing to understand is the Fletcher-Munson curves ..... they describe how the mind perceives different parts of the frequencies range ~ lows / midrange / highs different at changed dB's or volumes.
The Hot Plate does change the tone to make up for the Fletcher-Munson curves as you change the dB settings .... but nothing well do that perfect at this time.
The Hot Plate does change the tone to make up for the Fletcher-Munson curves as you change the dB settings .... but nothing well do that perfect at this time.
