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[Anonymous]

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[gonzo]

i walked away from the big makers at least 27 years ago, when i bought my first carvin.

since then, i've built 4 custom guitars of various build materials and design, and have 100% quality control!!!

 

[lesterpaul]

...welcome to my world(the LEFT HANDED WORLD :twisted: )...I have only bought two guitars that i was able to actually hold and play first-the rest have been crapshoots-I am just lucky to live close enough to a legendary repairman/luthier who has the magic touch-he can make a broomstick play like butta'

 

[Anonymous]

I honestly wouldn't expect a perfect guitar for that price from a big manufacturer. After working in a music store for about a year, I've come to see quite a few ugly flaws. Gibson? Since playing Custom Shop versions, I've yet to play any Gibson USA worth buying. The USA models have larger frets. Gibson will tell you this is for easier playing, but it isn't; it's so if they screw up the neck, they can simply grind their mistake out with the PLEK machine until it's level (though I question the conditions under which this is done; I tried to like a LP Jr. a month ago and it was great until the fret buzzing revealed itself during its first setup). The wood they use is also sub-standard; play a good piece of mahogany and you'll quickly realize the choked tone most USA Les Pauls possess. And while many of these guitars will age well, they just can't compare to the Custom Shop equivalent.

Fender? Fender makes a more consistent guitar than Gibson. They're not made by hand, and so the necks are more consistent from one guitar to the next. The bolt on necks are easier to deal with and honestly, probably better for resonance than Gibson's method (look up how the Gibson USA models are attached; short neck tenons stifle tone, unlike the Custom Shop's historically accurate and far superior long tenon). The problem? Plastic finishes and sub-standard wood muffle tone. Wood doesn't age properly and the fretboard becomes uneven. The Custom Shop models, on the other hand, are incredible. I recently got a NOS '56 RI Strat, and it's perfect in every way (even has a lacquer finish!).

ESP? Seems hit or miss. I've played some excellent guitars by ESP, and some terrible ones. They seem similar to Fender in that nothing is done by hand. My guess - both with ESP and Fender - is that the guitars leave the factory in great shape, but because of manufacturing techniques, by the time they reach customers, have shifted and changed so that most QC at the factory was a waste.

For 1600 EUR, I'd look at the used market. I truly believe - and I've played a LOT of guitars - Fender and Gibson Custom Shops are the best made guitars money can buy.

 

[94Tremoverb]

+1 on buy used. Cheaper so you get a better guitar for the same money; resale price is the same as purchase price (if you're careful when you buy) so you don't lose out if you don't get on with it; and many of the problems with wood settlement/shrinkage etc have already occurred and been sorted out - and if they haven't been, can be by a good luthier and you'll get the guitar cheaper to begin with.

There *are* good Gibsons and definitely good Fenders available used for that sort of money, definitely.

I would certainly not buy any new Gibson - even a Custom Shop one - new unseen, and probably not a Fender either. I would with a PRS (some of their cheaper US models are within your budget, especially used), probably with a Rickenbacker, and possibly with a few of the smaller US brands.

 

[swbo101]

I've been playing for about 37 years now and could NEVER buy a guitar sight unseen. Even with guitar companies that have good quality control, anything can happen. The wood, the person building it that day, there are too many variables not to play it and have it in your own hands to try. That is why I couldn't ever purchase any from an on-line store. I need to go to a store and try one. When I bought my first Les Paul back in 1980/81, I tried about 1/2 dozen that day until I found the right one. That holds true today with any model. Also +1 on the buy used. I've done that with an older strat and it's one of, if not, my favorite guitar.

 

[Anonymous]

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[KH Guitar Freak]

Haven't really played an ESP that felt nor sounded like a dog IME...

 

[Sixstringpsycho]

I own a 2009 fender American strat that has been great. I have a 78 les Paul that is awesome. I also have a 2000 lp studio that's great. However I recently bought an LTD EC400 with EMGs for $150 and it totally freaking screams fire and sounds Better than most newer Gibson Les Pauls. It's weird but the thing sounds **** good. But to the point, I'm horrified by the collapse in quality from Gibson as well as the others.

 

[thunda1216]

Haven't really played an ESP that felt nor sounded like a dog IME...

*I* have yet to play an ESP that I would even consider owning! Your mileage may vary...

 

[rocksalt7]

Yeah...the quality thing really blows. It's like all this QC and Six Sigma crap is supposed to yield a better product - but it doesn't. I'm an engineer and I have to look into this kind of BS all the time. Sadly, most of the QC programs are just formalized ways to pass the blame onto someone else, and then let that someone deal with the problem... :?: quite maddening!! OK ...end of soapbox!! :shock:

I truly love my Custom Shop 355, but it was a freakin' trainwreck when I got it. I spent MANY hours setting it up and reworking frets to make it play well...and finally, now, it does! So, I guess the CS Gibsons aren't as perfect as we'd like them to be...bummer.

Now, my PRS SE Custom from Korea, I've never, ever had to do anything to it since I took it out of the box almost 5 years ago. I put different pick ups in a while back and now it sounds like I want it to; but it really plays fantastic, and always has!!

So I guess the end result is that the name doesn't mean anything anymore really. It's how it's put together and how it sounds that count for us players.

Sorry for the rant guys ...it's late :shock:

 

[swbo101]

Hey rocksalt -- I hear you. I bought a 335 (though not a custom shop) several years back and went through the same thing. After hours of re-working I got it where I wanted it to be. I have 2 other Gibsons that I bought around 30 years ago and can tell you the quality was much better back then. Both LPs (one custom and one standard) needed no fine tuning.

Just wondering about your 355..did you find that the fret wire they used was a bit high? just curious.

Thanks

 

[GD_NC]

It seems to take most guitars a while to settle from the factory. I found if you give them a few years and let the wood settle a luthier can really work most the bugs out. (although that does not help a crap finish job) Honestly that's a shame, but I agree the quality of the wood is not that good on all but the most expensive guitars. Most wood is put through an accelerated drying process followed by a quick assembly process. Seems like the warping and shrinking takes a while to show up. Probably looked good during factory QC but went to hell the week after at Guitar Center where it was introducted to a new climate on the other side of the country/world.

My second gripe is trying to make the lack of a decent finish a "feature". I'm not sure why i want to pay extra to have a new guitar with the finish ripped off of it by a sander. Gibson's Faded guitars are a joke. The one I have has about one coat of nitro on it and started developing holes in the finish after a few months of use. Granted, I could have paid more for a fully finished one, but I expected a matte finish not a half-*** finish.

Makes a good case for buying used on Craigslist and taking it straight to a guitar expert.

 

[Anonymous]

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[JOEY B.]

I would not lay down the first dime for a new Gibson or Fender. They are both so mass produced, that the quality will be shaky. No matter what QC policies are implemented, it is all a matter of percentages. The only guitars that I have bought without playing have been made by Tom Anderson. Two of them were from ebay, and one was a custom ordered new guitar. I have spoken with him on the phone as well as email. He takes the time to give his customers the help that they may need. The guys at the Gibson Repair and Restoration shop in Nashville had the same personal relationship with me. It's sad that the big corporate production guitar builders have lost touch with the end consumer.

 

[94Tremoverb]

It's nothing to do with being mass-produced, simply lack of proper quality control. PRS are just as mass-produced as either Gibson or Fender (arguably more so at least than Gibson) and still manage extremely consistent quality - just because they have a much more strict QC regime. I've heard that this is because at PRS, each worker is personally responsible for checking what comes to him from the previous stage, and rejecting it if it isn't right.

Gibson's QC is horrendous, even on some of their top-end hand-made Custom Shop models - not long ago I played a special order CS Gibson acoustic that had the neck angle offset sideways to the point the top E was nearly off the fingerboard at the body end (the bridge was exactly centered on the top, so it wasn't a misplaced bridge). That's nothing to do with mass production, it's pure lack of care - anyone playing the guitar for ten seconds would have noticed it, and it should have been rejected or rebuilt before it ever left the factory. Also recently a CS 335 reissue with cherry stain totally over the binding all the way up the neck. WTF?!

On the other hand I have a Gibson CS acoustic that's constructionally almost flawless (well very nearly! and the bit that isn't is barely noticeable) and is the best-sounding acoustic guitar I've ever heard. Go figure! (I did of course not buy it new or unseen...)

 

[rjsc5]

Don't take this wrong, I love USA PRS', but I have even been disappointed with some of their recent models. Sticky nitro, tuners that break, dead sounding wood when played unplugged, cold solder joints WTF! I have found USA Hamers much more consistant, but if bought new resale sucks. At least their guitars do not disappoint me. Gibson finishes remain very troublesome. Good Luck.

 

[rocksalt7]

Hey swbo101...
Yeah the frets were pretty hosed from about 12-13 on up. Pretty much where thefretboard comes up over the body. After going all thru it a SECOND time, I reseated ALL the frets and then releveled them w/ 800 grit paper, 2000 grit, and them polished them up. A lot of time and pain, but now it plays pretty **** good! Mind you, I got this Custom Shop beast when it was 5 years old w/ very little play time on it (can't imagine why!!). I've had it since 2003 and so far I've had to redo the frets 3 times, recut the nut, and make numerous adjustments to the truss rod....maddening!!! I traded 3 really good LPs for this one and if it wasn't just so insanely gorgeous to look at, and sound the way it does, I think I would have let her go quite a while ago. But right now she's pretty close to perfect for me....finally!! 8) And best of all...she sounds absolutely killer w/ my Stiletto! :mrgreen: Nothing has ever sounded like this for me before or since!