Pedals; straight in or fx loop? please help!

[tunta]

Hi guyz, i have a 3 channel dual and i just bought a ds-1,and a wah. Do i plug them straight in or through the fx loop? and if the answer is the fx loop can someone please xplain 2 me cord by cord how to do this. Do i still just plug my guitar cord straight into the amp and have the pedals in the send return jacks? This is so confusing! I looked at the owners manual but got no help there. Also,i just bought another 4-12 recto cab,and the manual says that i'm suppossed to have the two 8 ohm recto cabs plugged into the 4 ohm jacks but if thats the case ,why even put two 8 ohm jacks on the back, i've been running the two cabs trough the two 8 ohm jacks and i like the sound better. Thanx 4 any advice!

 

[JF Omalycat]

The two 8 ohm outlets would be for two 16 ohm cabs.
What do you need the DS-1 for? You're going to throw one of the crappiest, stock dirt-boxes into one of the finest gain machines ever created? Kind of like putting turd on a jelly sandwich.

 

[kiff]

distortion and wah should almost(?) always go in front of the amp. the fx loop is for things like delay, chorus, etc...

if you do end up using the ds-1, despite JF's advice, you'll probably get much better results going into the wah first, then the ds-1

so.... guitar -> wah -> ds-1 -> amp

 

[plapnab]

The general rule of thumb is distortions and wahs go in front of the amp. I've never owned a DS-1 or for that matter ever knowingly heard one but, Steve Vai uses on on his touring rig...so, maybe there's something to them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b58Xil8RfRY

Skip to 4 min 33 sec if you don't want to watch the whole thing.

 

[94Tremoverb]

What kiff said - guitar > wah > DS-1 > amp. Don't run distortion devices in the loop, it can make the amp unstable (especially with parallel loops like the Mesa one) and usually doesn't sound good anyway.

The DS-1 is a great, classic pedal. Does it sound like a tube amp? No. Does it have a great different, aggressive heavy distortion tone that can be used on its own into a clean amp or to push an already dirty one? Yes and yes. If you can't get a good sound out of one, you're not trying hard enough - the controls are interactive and there are only a few combinations that *really* work well, but they really do. Generally as the distortion goes up you want to turn the tone down, and it's *very* touchy - a tiny hair width adjustment is all it takes.

The DS-1 has been used by too many great players on too many classic recordings to be wrong on this. Just because it's one of the most basic boxes from the world's largest pedal maker proves nothing. The Tube Screamer, RAT and a handful of others are classics as well for the same reasons.

 

[endless_mike03]

Yep, everyone else has it right on the money. Wahs and distortions should be placed in front, respectively. You should definitely consider using the DS-1 as a clean/volume boost. It'll make your "heavy" channels on your amp come to life.

 

[TTSTWO]

I've heard that the Made in Japan versions of the DS-1 sound better than the current Made in Thiwan versions? I've owned both and couldn't tell the difference.

 

[fluff191]

I've heard that the Made in Japan versions of the DS-1 sound better than the current Made in Thiwan versions? I've owned both and couldn't tell the difference.

That goes for all of the Boss pedals. Doesn't matter where they are made, as they don't sound any different. To my ears, anyways.

 

[cheameup]

I've heard that the Made in Japan versions of the DS-1 sound better than the current Made in Thiwan versions? I've owned both and couldn't tell the difference.

all gear has its "The old models sound better" look at the 2 channel vs 3 channle recto debate . most of the time the difference is minial and not really important at the end of the day .

The Ds1 to get is the keeley mod version. Thats what Vai uses I believe

 

[fluff191]

Vai doesn't use the DS-1 now that he has the Gemini pedal of his.

 

[94Tremoverb]

To my ears there is a noticeable tone difference between most of the Japanese and Taiwanese Boss pedals, both as a generalization and for specific models. In the case of the DS-1 the circuit actually changed - including the type of clipping diodes (which directly affects the tone) and the output impedance (which affects how it interacts with an amp or with other pedals that follow it). To me, the Japanese DS-1 has slightly less gain and a noticeably bigger, less buzzy tone - but it may depend on exactly how you set it and with what other gear you're running it.

It's a very similar difference to that between the Ibanez TS-808 and TS-9 - which are essentially the exact same pedal but with a different amplifier IC and output impedance. (And a different switch!)

The other big difference with the older Boss pedals is that they are really very different models - as Boss replace old models with new ones, they get more features or range, less background noise and a more clinical and less 'organic' tone, to me. For example, compare a DD-2 Digital Delay (or early Japanese DD-3, they're the same thing) to a recent DD-3, DD-5, and DD-6 - or a PH-1R Phaser (Japan) to a PH-2 (Taiwan, but still analog) to a PH-3 (Taiwan, digital)... totally different pedals.

 

[brungio]

Should Fuzz pedals go in front as well? I think the answer is yes.

And what about tremolo pedals ? Specifically the SD Shape Shifter?

Thanks

 

[Buddy The Elf]

Since you guys are already discussing, what length of cables should I use as the send and receive? I have a EH Holy Grail Reverb, Boss DD-3 Delay and a Boss CH-1 Chorus in the loop connected by patch cables but when I plug in two 18ft cables the signal was too weak. I used two 5 feet ones to get it to work and it did but I was standing right next to my amp. Any advice on this? I want it to be as long as possible without it starting to clip (which it does with the longer cables) and I don't want to buy a zillion cables to find the longest combination. BTW, I'm a complete noob to effects. I've always used what is on the amp before but I just started using some other effects and never used the loop before.

Also, what is a good order for what I'm using? Right now, I have send>Reverb>Delay>Chorus>Return.

I think I'm going to play with my DS-1 in the input now too to see what kinda sounds i can get out of it.

 

[jtroska]

Should Fuzz pedals go in front as well? I think the answer is yes. And what about tremolo pedals ? Specifically the SD Shape Shifter? Thanks

[object Selection]

I would use a tremolo in the loop unless you only plan to use it on clean channels. The high gain channels will compress the tremolo and diminish its effect. So best to place the tremolo in the loop where it is after the compressing stage of the preamp. Fuzz is essentially distortion and should go in front of the amp.

 

[94Tremoverb]

If you got a much weaker signal with the 18' cables than the 5', there's something wrong with one of the 18's - there shouldn't be that much difference, especially as the Boss pedals are buffered so the cable back from the pedals to the amp return is isolated from the loading of the other one. A good quality 18' cable has only marginally more capacitance than a 5' anyway.

All overdrive, distortion, and fuzz pedals should go in front of the amp, as should wahs. Level and tone-shaping pedals (which includes EQ and tremolo) can go in either place but will sound different and respond differently to distortion. Time-based and delay modulation (reverb, delay, chorus, flanger) should generally go in the loop. Phaser and vibe are modulation but not strictly time-based, and work well in both places, but again sound very different when using amp distortion. Pitch shifting can go either way too - I prefer analog octavers in front of the amp and digital pitch shifters in the loop... I don't really like anything digital in front of the amp.

 

[JF Omalycat]

Agree on the cable lengths. I regularly use 25' footers in my loop with no discernible differences.