Para EQ with boost in loop + Decimator G String?

[enuenu]

I have a 3 Ch DR, an ISP G String Decimator, an Empress Para EQ, a Flashback X4 delay, a Maxon OD9 Pro+, a Wahzoo Wah and a Fuzz War. I have been trying for a while to get my board right.

The Decimator G String is supposed to be used in conjunction with the loop apparently, so I wanted to do this. I used to have it set up like the diagram at top right of the extensive manual;
http://www.isptechnologies.com/manuals/Decimator G String Pedal 5-13-092.pdf
but that doesn't use the FX loop so I thought maybe I should change what I do to make the most of the G String

I recently read this;
http://www.guitarists.net/guitar_forum/view_bb.php?forum=6&thread=88861
(see 7th post for diagram)
This post suggested putting the EQ and delay in the loop (making use of the G String's FX loop functionality) and setting the mix to 100% (as the DR's loop is parallel not serial) This didn't work at first. I was getting some horrific noises out of the amp before I quickly turned my guitar volume to 0. Then through a process of deduction I realised it was the Para EQ in the loop that was causing the problems, so I took it out and put it out front, leaving the delay and G String in the loop. This all worked OK it seemed.

However I did notice that when I had the Para EQ in the loop it had very large effects on the tone. This was a good thing. I was getting some great tones, very extreme and varied. It had way more effect on tone when in the loop as opposed to when it was out front. However I had to be careful when it was in the loop. I had to set the EQ's input pad to -12dB and keep the boost at 10dB or below. Once the boost was over 15dB horrible feedback and squealing occurred. Anything over 20dB and the amp sounded like it was going to die, making all sorts of squealing, thumping and stuttering tones. I turned the EQ's boost back down immediately. Changing the EQ's input pad level had a similar effect. When switched from -12dB to 0dB the amp freaked out again.

So I thought maybe having the EQ in the loop could damage the amp, even with the boost down low and the input pad maximised. Have I already damaged the amp? Could prolonged use of the EQ in the loop damage the amp, even with boost and input pad settings set to avoid the amp freaking? Maybe even the fact that certain frequencies are boosted can cause damage even though it all sounds OK? I am not a technical person but my guess is that the boost to the signal done by the EQ is something the loop can't handle, to some extent anyway.

I then took the EQ out of the loop and put it back out front. I could max out the boost even with the OD9 on maximum boost. Input pad setting could be anywhere. However the EQ was no longer having the crazy effect on tone that was so much fun when I had it in the loop. It still changed the tone a lot, just nowhere near as radically.

Should I leave this EQ in the loop or take it out and leave it out front?
Here is the manual (note mine is the old version with no on/off switch for the boost);
http://www.empresseffects.com/manuals/paraeq.pdf

Maybe I should revert to having the G String completely out front, covering all my pedals except delay (no loop involvement) and put the delay in the loop by itself?

 

[Blaklynx]

OK, I'll start......

I looked at the pdf of the ISP pedal. Something looks strange. The top right diagram shows the setup and the diagram beneath it shows the Return / Send. These two diagrams contradict each other. On the bottom diagram, the Return is on the left side of the pedal. On the top right diagram, the Return is connected to the amp's input. Same problem with the Send. This is clearly wrong. So which diagram is correct?

The ISP pedal's Return should be connected to a Send from the other unit (be it pedal or amp's Send). The ISP's Send should be connected to the Input (or Return) of a pedal or an amp (to the Input out front of an amp or Return on amp's loop).

If you think you had all your stuff connected correctly, let's proceed.....

The recto amps loop is affected by the Channel's volume. The higher the volume, the higher the signal from the Send. Some pedals cannot take a high Send signal, others can. If the signal is too high, you are overloading the pedal's input and the resulting sound is squealing, stuttering and just plain crap. Solution? Turn the channel volume down (most say to keep around 10~11 o'clock) or turn the pedal's Input Gain dial down (if it has one).

I have an EQ out front and also in the loop. No, you won't damage the amp or the pedal provided the signal from the Send of the amp isn't too high (constant squealing isn't good as you've noticed). As you've also discovered, there are huge tonal differences where you place the EQ. They each perform a different function (not readily obvious to many) that you can do a great deal with each EQ.

I'd place the EQ after the ISP. If your EQ has an Output level, crank it up to get the amp back to it's initial volume (since the Channel volume will have to be set lower) and this will compensate for the volume difference.

If the EQ pedal doesn't have an Output Level, get one that does. Maybe have two and cascade one EQ pedal after another (just watch the Output Level of the pedal before, otherwise you'll drive the Input of the next pedal). The MXR 10 band is an excellent one (I own 2 of them). With this setup, you can have one engaged for rhythm duties and the other for lead duties. This won't give more gain but the 2nd EQ gives the option of changing the tone to cut through and also give a volume boost. Something to think about. EQ's are a very versatile beast.

Here's another bit of know-how...... place delay and reverbs after the ISP. You don't want to cut short the tail ends of these effects. Delays and Reverbs do not sound great when they are cut off. They need to naturally decay (as they would in 'real life'..... ie. shouting in a cave.... the echo just doesn't abruptly stop). Of course, the pedal order may depend on the threshold setting of the ISP. Maybe this pedal doesn't gate abruptly.... I don't know because I don't own one. If the ISP naturally fades out the signal, then I guess it can be last in line (I'd still have the EQ after it).

OK.... I think that's it.

 

[enuenu]

Thanks a lot for that, I got quite a bit out of your response.

As for the ISP manual, I find it odd that after developing such a high tech piece of kit they seemed to have scratched the manual out on the back of a beer coaster at the pub one day after work. Why not provide half a dozen example setups? It's obviously a pedal where the setup is not like the usual pedal and newbs need a bit of help with it.