Output Master Volume

[afu]

For gits and shiggles, I turned off the loop and had the Vintage mode of Channel 2 with the volume and gain at about 9:00 or so. It sounded so beautiful. I think I could get used to using it after I put a linear pot in my guitar for a wider control over volume, but I really like switching channels and having the effects.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has removed the bright boost filter from the output pot? I've been experimenting with using the solo pot as the volume control. It seems to add girth and some of the toppy sound gets shelved. My thought for modification is whether the cap and resistor should be yanked, or if maybe a larger cap could be used to set the cutoff lower, or perhaps a different resistor to set the limit lower? I usually play at 80 or 90 dB and it sounds great, but at midnight I can't do that without turning off the loop.....

Thoughts?

 

[vick1000]

Buy a headphone capable gear for midnight practice.

 

[Jorn218]

I subbed this thread as I am interested in learning what you figure out Afu. I stopped running the Master for the global amp volume and have gone to using just the channel volume as my volume as I have been stuck on channel 2 since discussing it with you last year.

I still have never been able to figure out how to set the Solo knob so it wont drown everything else out around the amp. Or for that matter, just how it works in relation to the rest of the volume knobs when they are used.

 

[afu]

After doing the simple jump from lug 2 to lug 3 of the mix pot, I have a series signal flow now. That actually fixed several problems I was having: the fizz and empty sound at lower volumes, some slight problems with focus and firmness in the bottom, the slightly off effects sounds, and other, minor things. Since I have my loop on all the time to keep my volume stable and for time based effects, I need it to sound good. I didn't realize how much the parallel signal was interfering. I'm pretty happy with it. I've had mixed feelings over the last couple of years, but I really do love it, now.

I should probably just get a Cab Clone. I'm out in the middle of the desert on my own land, so my neighbors aren't incredibly close, but I don't want to bother them at all. I have really bad rheumatoid arthritis and a couple other health issues. I play when I'm able and sometimes, that's very late. Since the disability comes and goes, I have to do it when I can and it's random. It also affects my cognition. That's why I collaborate or consider small pieces to form the whole.

If a person changed anything on the Output, I think the pot would be easiest. A testing bread board could be setup with multiple values or someone could do the math and compare it to another filter they like. That way, the motherboard doesn't have to come out.

The RC filter on lugs 3 to 2 is there to set a max treble knee. I think there's more interaction between the coupling cap and the pot to inlfuence actual response, overall. A decrease in pot value will introduce more frequencies below the treble/presence knee set by that RC combo on lug 3 to wiper. If those become more prominent, the treble seems less dominant. The overall sound will darken.

 

[afu]

I subbed this thread as I am interested in learning what you figure out Afu. I stopped running the Master for the global amp volume and have gone to using just the channel volume as my volume as I have been stuck on channel 2 since discussing it with you last year.

I still have never been able to figure out how to set the Solo knob so it wont drown everything else out around the amp. Or for that matter, just how it works in relation to the rest of the volume knobs when they are used.

I have a midi setup going. I have the solo always on, no switch on the loop, and the channels set up for switching and effects. By just playing with the Output, solo, and Send knobs, I can get some different sounds. I spent two weeks on it. At low volumes, I liked the output off or barely on, Solo from 9:00 to Noon, and send around 11:00. I increased the gain on my TC Electronic Nova System a little to make the lower send get back to where it should be. I am tired and I can't really think to tell you what it's doing circuit-wise.

When I cranked it, Send went to Noon, Output and Send between 9:00 and Noon. I varied the gain on the Nova until I liked it, it's a tight sweep and takes a few seconds.

The DR Send is a little tighter as the Send is decreased, to a point. After about 11:00 it becomes really bright as it's goes down, but begins to lose body. If the Send is increased past 1:00, the body increases, but it's less focused. Using the outboard gear to bring a tight sound up and pass it to the fat power amp seems to be a solution. It keeps the dry stream low and the effected stream is boosted to drown out the dry.

My post above this is another solution and I haven't been messing with the settings as often since the mod. For a person with a parallel loop, this post is more helpful. I don't recall what you have. With a serial connection, Send is at Noon, Solo is between off and 9:00, and I'm using the Output to set overall volume again( usually 9 to 11). I'm now using the Nova with auto gain correction, so it isn't being used as a boost and is pretty transparent. The Solo still adds some beef.

 

[3124+]

Perhaps what you are hearing is due to the series resistance of the 1 meg master pot in conjunction with the Miller capacitance of the following triode. Lower master settings will have more series resistance, dropping the RC lowpass cutoff frequency.

 

[afu]

I think that part of it is the change in lower frequencies between the series resistance of the output and solo pots in parallel to the coupling cap from the fx return. It shunts slightly less lows to ground. By using the solo as a volume, I think the change in resistance out, without mechanically moving the output pot, is making a difference as well. I'll look into the interaction between the controls and the PI later. Thanks for the idea.

 

[Jorn218]

I have an older 3 channel amp like you. I have yet to open it up to play with the circuit of the effects loop as I really do not use time based effects for anything more than lead work sometimes, and then I just have a delay set in front of the amp with a slight slap back to make tremolo dives sound interesting. I did try something I had yet to do last week which stemmed from reading this thread is throwing a patch cable into the loop, turning it on, setting the return full on, and running the send up until I stopped noticing difference in how the amp sounded (approx 2:30). This allowed me to remove the SD1 from the front of the amp. As I am getting a better and cleaner punch by doing this.

I have modded my amp as detailed in the Pre-500 thread (gain pots to CH.s 2&3, jumpered the three 100Ohm resistors, secret sauce non-red lamp lens I think were it).

I run Channel 2 all the time as rhythm and lead tone and have it set as such: Master-1:30, Gain-12:30-1:00, Mids-raise til it honks, then back off until it just goes away, Treble- raise just until I get some cut, then a little hair on it, Bass-raise until the lows pull away from the mids, Presence- raise until I get just a tiny bit of air. Output is set to environment necessities. Solo-Off as I still haven't figured out how to properly set it without blowing the roof off. Seems THAT specific pot is either too low or way too high. Aside from the perceived benefit of using the patch cable in the loop, I really do not like how the output seems to affect the tone of any of the channels. I can't put my finger on what it is, but the amp seems to lose some tonal balls in a amplitude balls trade off.

 

[screamingdaisy]

The DR Send is a little tighter as the Send is decreased, to a point. After about 11:00 it becomes really bright as it's goes down, but begins to lose body. If the Send is increased past 1:00, the body increases, but it's less focused.

You're talking the FX send in the rear, correct?

Where are you setting your channel masters?

The Solo still adds some beef.

I've always noticed the thickening but I never knew it had a treble cut. It makes sense that Mesa voiced the solo control to add a bit of meat so that the frequencies have more push rather than just a straight volume boost, and it also makes sense that they would also cut a bit of top end so that people's ears aren't spiked in the process.

 

[afu]

The DR Send is a little tighter as the Send is decreased, to a point. After about 11:00 it becomes really bright as it's goes down, but begins to lose body. If the Send is increased past 1:00, the body increases, but it's less focused.

You're talking the FX send in the rear, correct?

Where are you setting your channel masters?

The Solo still adds some beef.

I've always noticed the thickening but I never knew it had a treble cut. It makes sense that Mesa voiced the solo control to add a bit of meat so that the frequencies have more push rather than just a straight volume boost, and it also makes sense that they would also cut a bit of top end so that people's ears aren't spiked in the process.

Volume: Modern 10:00, Vintage 12:30, Clean Noon.

It isn't a treble cut. The rc filter is set by the two components on the Output pot's lug 3 and wiper. The potential divider created by the pot will shove frequencies to ground. The rc filter allows less highs to be grounded by comparison to lower frequencies. The pot is also a load to the V4b and that triode always sees the full value of the pot as a load. However, when the Solo pot is used, it presents a larger load and it affects the sound a bit. "Beef".

It's changes the Think of it like lifting a weight by hand or using a lever. The weight is lifted, but the results and work are different.