Open Letter to a Pre-500 Dual Rec Seller

[Joel]

I might have been a little harsh, but I wanted to share this with you. I have no problems with boutique or collector's item amplifiers escalating in price, but I am just sick of people trying to sell their gear at inflated prices, thinking they can set a new trend. Here is a clown who thinks that by narrowing his market, and selling on craigslist for the immediate cash of a local buyer instead of Ebay, he can still charge an exorbitant amount for this amp. I don't care if he was the idiot who spent this much for it in the first place; that's his problem. Anyhow, here is my less than diplomatic response. . .

I know first-hand what a great amp this is, but what a horrible price! $2600 are you kidding me? It looks like someone bought into all the hype at some internet web-site. Buying and selling things at fair market value is one thing. Trying to be at the forefront of some buying craze is asinine! I hope this wonderful amp sits unused in your basement for years to come. Maybe you should try to trade this amp for a Mark IIC+ along with about $900 cash, and see if this amp is really worth what you think it is.

Sincerely,

A Real Person

 

[Johnson]

[Note: I am not the seller of the amp mentioned above ]
Ouch! I agree with you that 2.6K is on the (very)high end market for a pre500. But in the end, things are only worth what some one is willing to pay for it. If it is truely not worth 2.6k, then no one will buy it, and the seller will be forced to lower his price to the true market value.

 

[mrd]

I could buy another RK head for that much. What a rip off.

 

[MetalMatt]

I was on craigslist the other day and I saw two things. One guy in my area selling a pre-500 Dual Rec #64 for $2600, and some guy in Florida selling a Mark CII-Aymul(?) for $3500, got it new for $1700.

I agree these are special amps... but thats insanity.

 

[CudBucket]

Well I'll be a Gear-Monkey's uncle!

 

[Boogiebabies]

Opinions are always welcome, but I for one would never tell someone how to spend thier money, or how bad of a purchase they made. It's a bit distasteful. It's kind of like telling someone how stupid they were for stepping on a rake or sticking thier tongue on a frozen lamp pole. Let fools be fools. They run our country and keep the economy going.

 

[gumbymage]

I think I've figured out all this pre-500 and pre-1000 stuff. It's all about "perceived" value. Now, like it or not, numbers do matter to some who view certain items as "collectible". Just as a 1st issue Spider-Man comic is more valuable (to some) than a reprint of the same issue, some people believe that a low build number on a MB amp is desirable. The value of anything is set by the price that a seller and buyer agree on to facilitate a transaction, just like in the stock market or real estate market. The only difference is, with these MB amps we have a small limited market with few buyers, so there's lots of room for the prices to fluctuate.

Again, I think it's all about perceived value for collectible reasons (or a placebo tone quality of some sort). Unless you are looking to buy a pre-500 yourself, I don't see why you would care what some one else pays for one...

 

[clutch71]

I was on craigslist the other day and I saw two things. One guy in my area selling a pre-500 Dual Rec #64 for $2600, and some guy in Florida selling a Mark CII-Aymul(?) for $3500, got it new for $1700.

I agree these are special amps... but thats insanity.

Wasn't #64 a board members?

 

[Boogiebabies]

For the Mesa faithfull, this pre-500 thing has been going on for a decade.
The pre-1000, about a month.

 

[phyrexia]

So has anybody swapped their Mark III OT into a Recto yet?

 

[Johnson]

So has anybody swapped their Mark III OT into a Recto yet?

Its only a matter of time...

 

[Gear-Monkey]

I was on craigslist the other day and I saw two things. One guy in my area selling a pre-500 Dual Rec #64 for $2600, and some guy in Florida selling a Mark CII-Aymul(?) for $3500, got it new for $1700.

I agree these are special amps... but thats insanity.

Wasn't #64 a board members?

It was Buntage, then I bought it from him. I sold it to another board member. The guy who is selling it for $2600 is the guy who bought it from me. He isn't making any money on it, I think that's about what he has invested into it.

 

[fredmullegun]

Just because you disagree with the market does not make someone an idiot or foolish for being a price-taker. It makes you seem to be putting your nose where it does not belong and it shows a lack of class.

I have seen gear way more inflated than 75% of what a non collectable version would be (assume just a reg 2 channel #990 or so priced at 1400)

Why don;t you email owners of squire strats trying to sell them for $400 bucks or 3/4 classical guitars for $375? Thats much over 100% of the actual value and this is crap not even close to collectable.

The recto line is so popular that early numbers would be popular no matter what, the fact that there are differences makes them even more elite.

The prices are a result of speculation. Get over it.


If you are correct you can be laughing all the way to the bank when the market adjusts and these guys will recieve a loss of thousands. Would that not be much more sweet than making them delete an angry letter from a stranger?

Also I'm not sure what your theory on market economics are but how can narrowing the market of BUYERS but keeping the numbers of sellers the same result in a higher price?

 

[CudBucket]

He isn't making any money on it, I think that's about what he has invested into it.

Yeah, well then he probably deserves to take a bath on it. That's just stupid. Sorry but it is. That's called getting caught up in BS hype hook line and sinker.

Let's tell him the retarded-flu is going to try and call him and that he should tell it "Shoo-shoo retarded flu" when it does.

Baba booey to yall.

 

[CudBucket]

Just because you disagree with the market does not make someone an idiot or foolish for being a price-taker.

You're right. That in and of itself does not make them foolish. It doesn't mean that it isn't possible though.

 

[LnTh]

I paid $1550 for the same distortion sound, 2 extra channels and a handful of extra fully usable features 8)

 

[Silverwulf]

As long as all of you guys keep "labeling" amps, such as "Pre-1000" and "Pre-500" especially...each and every one of you are helping to promote the hype that's driving up the used market of these amps. Eventually these guys will drop their price if they don't have a buyer, but it's the continuous ranting on boards like these of..."ZOMG?! I just tried #450 and it was a billion times betterz than teh #560"...that helps drive up the price. This board was a primary creator of the monster that it complains about.

 

[Boogiebabies]

How pious. You cannot tell me that if any of you had a pre-500 for sale you would be so philanthropic as to sell it for $ 1200 because you had $ 1000 in it. Let's be real. We are talking about the human race here.

If you want an example in supply and demand, a 1963 Corvette could be ordered with a special race package called the Z06. It was a pricy $ 4,252 and Chevrolet only built between 80 and 100 of these. Today, you would be lucky to get one for less than 6 figures.

 

[siggy14]

Well as being owner of a pre 5 dual rec, i can say there is something special about them, however it may not be your thing as it is more of a true solo head.

Lets face it, they are special as only a limited number of them made, they do have there own groove going on, is it a hype, not really, are they worthy over $2000, well that goes by what the market is willing to pay for them.

Soon as division is done recording there album, mine is going up for sale, hopefully the market is still hot by then.

I have said it once, and I will say it again, I know Grear Monkey is trying to sell his amp, but at the same time he has a point, any of the early recto's that used the old mark III transformers defintly had a different sound and attack then the newer ones. Maybe we should stop with the pre-500 and pre-1000 and just start calling them the pre-G's.

As long as all of you guys keep "labeling" amps, such as "Pre-1000" and "Pre-500" especially...each and every one of you are helping to promote the hype that's driving up the used market of these amps. Eventually these guys will drop their price if they don't have a buyer, but it's the continuous ranting on boards like these of..."ZOMG?! I just tried #450 and it was a billion times betterz than teh #560"...that helps drive up the price. This board was a primary creator of the monster that it complains about.

 

[Joel]

Just because you disagree with the market does not make someone an idiot or foolish for being a price-taker. It makes you seem to be putting your nose where it does not belong and it shows a lack of class.

I have seen gear way more inflated than 75% of what a non collectable version would be (assume just a reg 2 channel #990 or so priced at 1400)

Why don;t you email owners of squire strats trying to sell them for $400 bucks or 3/4 classical guitars for $375? Thats much over 100% of the actual value and this is crap not even close to collectable.

The recto line is so popular that early numbers would be popular no matter what, the fact that there are differences makes them even more elite.

The prices are a result of speculation. Get over it.


If you are correct you can be laughing all the way to the bank when the market adjusts and these guys will recieve a loss of thousands. Would that not be much more sweet than making them delete an angry letter from a stranger?

Also I'm not sure what your theory on market economics are but how can narrowing the market of BUYERS but keeping the numbers of sellers the same result in a higher price?

I've heard criticism from you (and others) about my lack of class, and to a certain extent, it's deserved. I have no ill will towards this guy at all; I just think he might have needed a dose of reality, which I obliged him with.

My point about narrowing the market is that, people selling gear often go to Craigslist or the local music store and think they can get a comparable or even a higher price than what the same gear goes for in an Ebay auction. Of course, they might get lucky, but usually not, because there are fewer buyers.

The bottom line is that a piece of gear should be worth it's selling price to the buyer. If the buyer is a investor who wants to flip some gear for a profit, that's fine too, but he should be familiar enough with the market to know if there is some room for him to operate with a profit before spending his money. He shouldn't get caught up in the line of thinking, '. . . well I paid $XXXX for it.', because that logic doesn't mean sh!t to anyone else but him.

It has become obvious that this amp isn't worth to the owner what his cost was, and that's why he's stuck with it. If he had any use for it, it would be easy to justify the cost or justify swallowing part of the cost. He simply didn't know what he was doing.