old 2-channel VS. t-verb VS. 2010 reborn. NEED ADVICE!!

[theweatherman]

Well great advice, but i dont just play punk. Im also in a party band that plays everything from country to metal.
I do like a sound that cuts, but not harsh and bright and annoying. i like a tone to fill in and not obstruct from the vocals or ruin a mix. but i agree with everything you said. smaller cabs are better for midrange. my recto 2x12 is just so portable, sounds almost like a 4x12, and is built so well that i wont be taaking it out of the equation

Bright doesn't automatically equal harsh! I advocate less power tubes because running four can get really thick and heavy fast.
If you want to play multiple styles why not buy a Roadster? If you want to play multiple styles with similar settings on one head, one great way to accomplish that is to have three or four different axes, each with different hardware. You'd be surprised how much you can tailor your sound this way. i.e. Strat with single coil pickups for blues or light stuff, Gibson with Alnico II humbuckers for punk, and a Jackson with high output ceramic passives or even high output actives for metal.

I don't know what you are running for axes. I have noticed something weird with my guitars. My Les Paul sounds best on the modern channel for crunch tones, this is without exception. (for lighter music, I just roll the gain WAY back) My other guitar (A godin LG with Duncans) sounds best on the vintage channel. Go figure. I have two 2 x 12s. The one is an oversized cab which is more scooped and great for heavy modern stuff and great dark jazz style cleans. The other one is a thiele cab. It is more midrange emphasized, and really does punk (and other lighter tones) well.

If you like clean with some breakup, dialing back the volume on the guitar is FANTASTIC for that. I put Bare Knuckle pickups in my Les Paul and I replaced the electronics. The result is that I can get great cleans by backing the volume pot way down. It also does great crunch. Whatever you do, DON'T UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF YOUR VOLUME KNOB as a tone shaping tool. You can get a million different shades of clean and crunch this way.

FWIW, Seymour Duncan is now selling a guitar preamp which can be used to switch a passive pickup into an active one. That may be useful for what you're after. Upgrade electronic in your guitar so you can do anywhere from blues to rock with the twist of a volume knob. Then when you want metal, just flip the preamp on to boost the pickups!!

i strictly use 50 watts, even if i have to pull tubes. I love getting the glow and heat from the power tubes, you can feel it in the way the amp sounds and plays. strictly a les paul user too. something about the tone of them i love. and yes, i cater to the "old school" method of channel switching. I ride that vol knob like theres no tomorrow! because of that the roadster is overkill for me. Ive learned that for me, theres something more musical and expressive of adjusting vol on the guitar and how you pick the strings to get the tone your after. 2 channels are all i need. one set to have a good heavy hard rock distortion that i can reign back with the vol knob for classic rock or punk. then a decent clean channel that is set up for a light broken up overdrive that when rolling the vol back gives a great clean tone. all musical styles can be played with that set up for me. but im not a tone stickler. im not trying to emulate exactly someone elses tone. the audience, and frankly even the rest of the band dont notice or care. good tone comes from a good amp, good guitar, and the fingers.

 

[theweatherman]

I like how a few people have suggested a Roadster even though you already had one and sold one because as you said it was too much amp. Way to read... I really don't think you can go wrong with any of your choices, but out of the 3, I'd go with either of the 2 channel models. I'm not opposed to the Reborn amps myself, but I understand the need for simplicity. I've had 3 channel amps and wound up using one or two tops. And while 4 does sound awesome for options, I get not needing that much amp. The Recto 2x12 is a huge, huge sounding cab. Anything you pair with it is going to sound monstrous, but you already know that. Honestly, it comes down to preference. For me the Tremoverb is easier to tame the top end on than the others. You can get plenty of snarl and rudeness out of any Recto... It's the Presence knob, especially on modern.

One thing that I should mention is with the older two channels, you have channel cloning and that produces some interesting options. Being able to have two vintage channels is awesome (which I know the 3 channels are capable of), but the cloning option gives you a vintage channel with a more full power section more akin to the modern setting. Also, your presence knobs on both channels affect your tone and allow you to contour and shape it further. It's a sweet function and one I've recently started taking advantage of. It works like this. On the normal vintage voicing on any Recto, the Presence controls the top end "cut" more or less. It's like a treble on top of a treble. On modern mode, that presence is moved to a different part of the circuit that to me doesn't so much act as a treble on top of treble, but acts more as a "throat" control for the amp. It's still in the upper register, but more of an upper mid presence than just straight treble. When you clone the red channel to orange specs and kick it into modern mode, it's the vintage voicing, but with the added oomph of modern's volume plus the ability to contour your presence from two sides of the spectrum. It's a really unique feature of the 2 channels.

Honestly, try them out. What I may like you may not and vice versa. If you know anyone locally by you that has a Tremoverb for sale, go over and play the hell out of it. Same with the standard 2 channel and the Reborn. See what you like the most. FWIW, I have a Series II Single Rec which is voiced similarly to the older 3 channels, and I like my Tremoverb more. I still use my Single Rec because it does come across as more aggressive, but for a better balance I like my T-verb. Go figure.

ya, im leaning towards the tverb for sure. the presence controls and channel cloning is a little confusing. i need to sit down and read the tov manual and figure it out. i think i get the jist of it though.

 

[theweatherman]

Based on the tone you seek, I say go for Tverb. Your description of the tone you like sounds like late 90's incubus. Warm, loose high gain and the sweet vintage/blues tone.

thats funny you mention incubus. was listening to them last night trying to sleep and loved the tones! being in high school in the 90's music scene i guess i just naturally gravitate to the 2ch recto sound. if i grew up in the 80's id probably be all about the marshall jcm800, a tubescreamer, and spandex!

 

[theweatherman]

What it comes down to is they all sound like rectos. Each with there own personality. If you twist the knobs you can get simula results from each. My advice would be to evaluate what you want in an amp.... # of channels? Reverb? Loop (series/parallel)? Price? Do you need a warranty? How important is clean tones?

If you dont need a warranty you can save almost a grand by buying a tverb or 2ch solo head.
2ch solo heads are easier to find so if you dont need reverb (or tremolo) you can skip the tverbs
Is a great clean tone important? th 2010s and Tverbs have good clean tones. The 2chs dont IMO
If you dig the vintage gain, the Tverb is the best IMO. Not as muddy.
How much gain do you use? The Tverbs have alot LESS gain than the 2010 and 2chs. You would need an OD/boost for uber metal
is 2 chs enough for you?

Basically Im saying the tones are all good. It all comes down to cost, availability and specs.

Try not to pull your hair out

-dont use much effects really, so loop is not a need
-warranty's are nice but not at the expense of good tone, plus mesas are built so well, ive never had a big prob with one...knock on wood
-use reverb on occasion, really appreciate a good verb, trem...don't use.
-i love good cleans, but my sense of "good" is different than most. i dont like a super twin reverb clean sound. i actuall hate the cleans on my mkv. loved the ED cleans, more full and raw and gritty. though you can get close using tweed on the mkv. just not as thick or warm as i like though
-LOVE vintage high gain. best sound out of any recto IMO. its where i live, eat, sh*t and sleep.
-as far as gain, on my old rectos, i would set the gain to noon (using a duncan JB). if i wanted heavier i would pick hard, if i want less heavy i pick softer and or drop the guitar's vol. recto's are surprisingly expressive and responsive to pick attack and vol changes (using the right guitar and pick ups)

*so looks like the tverb may be what im after.

 

[YellowJacket]

i strictly use 50 watts, even if i have to pull tubes. I love getting the glow and heat from the power tubes, you can feel it in the way the amp sounds and plays. strictly a les paul user too. something about the tone of them i love. and yes, i cater to the "old school" method of channel switching. I ride that vol knob like theres no tomorrow! because of that the roadster is overkill for me. Ive learned that for me, theres something more musical and expressive of adjusting vol on the guitar and how you pick the strings to get the tone your after. 2 channels are all i need. one set to have a good heavy hard rock distortion that i can reign back with the vol knob for classic rock or punk. then a decent clean channel that is set up for a light broken up overdrive that when rolling the vol back gives a great clean tone. all musical styles can be played with that set up for me. but im not a tone stickler. im not trying to emulate exactly someone elses tone. the audience, and frankly even the rest of the band dont notice or care. good tone comes from a good amp, good guitar, and the fingers.

Hmmm. Very VERY VERY good to know.

I'll offer you some more specific feedback based on this information.

1) If you haven't already, DEFINITELY upgrade the electronics on your Les Paul. Use a 50s style wiring instead of the typical 60s style setup. Use 500K CTS pots. 0.22 uf paper in oil caps are great. They really warm up the sound of a Les Paul nicely. The 50s style writing is more aggressive which is great for dynamics while playing.

2) If you haven't already, get some great high quality pickups in your Les Paul. I put Bare Knuckle Rebel Yells in my guitar. They clean up nicely and they have a great midrange bark as well as a slight low end cut which keeps the Les Paul from getting boomy. The highs are very sweet and articulate which is great. The pickups are well calibrated so the neck isn't boomy and the bridge isn't thin. It makes it much easier to dial in a great tone.

I performed these two steps on my Les Paul Standard 2002 Premium Plus last summer. The results of both were astounding. WELL WORTH THE $$$$$$$$$s!!!

3) I happen to own a 2 channel Rev F dual so I can speak about that a bit. I'd say the amp is darker and warmer sounding, but I don't know what you would think about the cleans. Vintage channel is great for lead tones but with my Les Paul, dirt always sounds better on the Red channel set to modern, without exception. You 'could' potentially use the red channel for crunch and use the orange set to vintage for that breakup type clean. I dunno. The amp in general likes either high gain or squeaky clean best. I find the mildly overdriven tones to be really nasty on this head. I've never been able to do edge of breakup well, at least coming from the amp. It has to be the guitar volume dialed down with the gain up to get that effect. It 'works' but it might not be what you want. Do consider that I have been SERIOUSLY considering an Electra Dyne head for the clean, low gain, and mid gain tones. That should give you an idea of what this amp does.

That being said, I'd say grab a Tremoverb. It is pretty obvious that this is the head you need for what you want. Best wishes!

 

[Nomad100]

4) As you know already, run EL-34s. I wouldn't shy away from the modern channel. If you EQ it right, it can be even more crunchy and defined than the vintage channel. I find the vintage mode works best for a lead tone.

Nice comment and dead on. I run my "Reborn" amp with EL34's in both channel 2 and 3 using the modern mode and 100 watts. The sound is big and crunchy, but with a ton of definition.
Funny enough, I also like using the spongy switch with the above settings. Seems to turn the new Recto in to a cross between a JCM800 and a Soldano SLO. Not a bad sound at all. 8)

 

[siggy14]

I know alot of bands that have switched from Recto's to Marshall or VOX, doesnt mean they are better for that style, just means that is the tone they were after.

If you ask me, Thrice and Incubus and 311 all sounded best when they used recto's, now they are just watered down versions (except 311) of themselves and they have all gone very light in how they write music.

My point is I can list alot of bands that have switched from Recto's to another brand, some people chase the tone they have always been after, some guitarists are just whore's and take whatever is free or the lowest price. In the end tone is subjective, the OP said he likes the wide range of tone he can get from a recto, he loves the deep bottem end, this is something you can not get from a marshall or a vox.

Based on the tone you seek, I say go for Tverb. Your description of the tone you like sounds like late 90's incubus. Warm, loose high gain and the sweet vintage/blues tone.

Ah, this is another band that used to use Rectos, and now swear by Vox AC30's and Marshall's as well.

 

[siggy14]

Here is my take, I have owned many recto's, from every version of the 2 channel, to roadking to roadster to trem and single.

2 channel dual is a great sounding amp, balanced all over, great for metal or pop punk or pop rock/metal, but overall like any recto can do any style of music.

Tremoverb is also a great amp, it has more mid's and it is not darker or even close to the darkness of the roadster. Since you are into rock I think this is a great choice for you, plus it has great cleans. Just make sure you research them, different versions and some might still have LDR problems.

Newborn, I have heard many clips and talked to people, they say this amp is great, nice and tight, bright and cuts through the mix like you wouldnt believe. I could see myself getting one of these some day to replace my might roadking Version I. But I would have to play it alot more to make sure I like it.

No my favorite mesa to date (havent played the new born for long) is my Roadking Ver I, it is a mix between a 2 channel dual and a tremoverb, not as much Mid's as the tremoverb, but more then the dual, so many options and the brit channel on this amp screams plexi with an OD in front with gain and drive maxed.

Like other people have said, I would go with a traditional cab which is now known as the stiletto cab, will defintly warm up whichever amp you choose.

 

[LesPaul70]

if i grew up in the 80's id probably be all about the marshall jcm800, a tubescreamer, and spandex!

A dirty secret of the 1980s is that in the studio, many musicians actually used Mesa Mark IIc+, ADA MP1, Soldano etc. Even though live they had huge Marshall stacks on stage.

I started playing in the 1980s, and I find that I can get frighteningly close to many sounds that I hear on my favorite 1980s albums with my Mark V (especially with EL34s, for some of them). Tubescreamer optional.
Spandex, yuck, no thank you.

 

[blackmonday]

I play a tverb in a punk band - sounds great and it's easy to dial in, I stick to the vintage high gain. I'm running through a mesa cab with 4 WGS Vintage 30 clones. Easy amp to set up and play. Always sounds good. I also have a JCM 2000, and that sounds great too, so look at that amp, it can usually be found pretty cheap used. The Mesa is fatter and deeper, more complex. The Marshall is very straight up with lots of hot mids. Either can cut through the mix.