old 2-channel VS. t-verb VS. 2010 reborn. NEED ADVICE!!

[theweatherman]

looking to go back to a recto. I miss that wide aggressive crunch! I play punk rock/hard rock/classic rock.
Ive owned a roadster, a single, and a 3 channel (non reborn).

I am trying to decide between an old 2 ch, t-verb, or a 2010 reborn

I mostly live on vintage hi gain. I like lots of mids (almost marshally) and run el34s. I want a warm loose hi gain sound, not brittle, and not too tight. I love the low end and mile wide sound out the recto series but don't know which recto to get.

My single was too bright and sterile, roadster was too much amp (don't need all the functions), liked my 3 ch.

here are my thoughts...

T-VERBS:
so from what ive gathered doing lots of research it seems that the 2 channels are best, with the t-verbs being the best of the 2 channel rectos. am I right? will a tverb get me what i want? I like the idea of the blues mode and reverb. What is the blues mode supposed to sound like? are the cleans better on the tverbs than other 2 or 3 channel rectos?

2-channel
nice and simple rock amp. i like the idea. how much does the tone really compare to say an old 3 channel? people say they are warmer and have more midrange? I like that if that is really the case.

2010 reborn
Played one at gc. did not like it at all. weird because i thought i would. But the reviews are great. so it may have been that particular amp. i was running it through a recto cab with a gibson lp (my familiar set up). I do not like that the amp is brighter. it was almost harsh (and treble/presence was dialed down a lot)

So there it is...any comments, suggestions, ideas would help a ton! I dont know what to get!

 

[b0nkersx]

The 2 channels are pretty bright. It's nothing that can't be tamed but they're a lot brighter than a Roadster. I don't know much about the TOV but I'd imagine they're brighter than a Roadster also since they're technically 2-channel models.

 

[theweatherman]

The 2 channels are pretty bright. It's nothing that can't be tamed but they're a lot brighter than a Roadster. I don't know much about the TOV but I'd imagine they're brighter than a Roadster also since they're technically 2-channel models.

Really? i always heard they were warmer. yes the tverb is basically a 2 ch but ive heard they sound a little different. but you say they are brighter...interesting. maybe i should re-visit the roadster, I did like it alot. its just so much amp. overkill for a guy who uses one drive channel and sometimes a clean channel

 

[greatmutah]

The T-Verb is darker than the standard 2 channel. That's not a bad thing. Their voicing is comparable to a roadster. Any two channel is going to be tighter than the previous 3 channels. But being Rectos, they still have massive low end at the ready. In my experience I find the vintage mode on the Tremoverb to be much more usable than on any other Recto I've played. Also, if you like vintage mode a lot, the two channels and tremoverb do allow you to "clone" the channel containing vintage high gain to the Red channel. Presence circuitry is interesting too as you have access to both presence controls in the Red channel with both enabled. Also the cleans on the Tremoverb are much more organic sounding than on any other Recto I played. They're not a super clean clean, but getting past that, they have a great depth in sound. The Blues mode can also double as a clean or a crunch channel depending on your settings. The mids get kicked up a little more too. Very versatile, usable mode. Also, the tube reverb IMO is to die for. So good.

I've played a couple two channels and they are very bright, very aggressive amps compared to the T-Verb I own. I would love to have a two channel just for the little contrasts in tone.

The Reborns have a tighter low end than the 3s and channels 2 and 3 are identical, with less differences than they had on the previous 3 channels. I've been dying to play one, but no one around has one for me to check out yet.

I'd go with the tremoverb overall. Really for what you play, it's the most versatile and easiest to use and set up. I'm not saying the 3 channels are super complicated by any means, as you know from having one. I'm just saying that the versatility of the T-Verb makes it a better amp to have IMO.

 

[YellowJacket]

Ok, my $0.02. I think the Tremoverb, 2-Channel, or Reborn are all ridiculously great heads. If you select any of these you won't be disappointed.

Here is what I think will help for punk tone:

1) Play a Fender Strat, Gibson SG, or Gibson Les Paul. Running more vintage style pickups also helps get a wicked crunch. You can dial up the gain to compensate.

2) This is the BIG ONE! Play though a Mesa Stiletto 4 x 12 or a Marshall 1960ax / Marshall Vintage 4 x 12. In my experience, the oversized Rectocab 4 x 12 really emphasizes the highs and bass, while scooping out the midrange. The smaller 4 x 12 really does a lot to focus the midrange punch of a Dual Rectifier. It gives a rounder sound overall.

3) I'd mix Celestion v30s and G12m - 25 reissues in an X pattern for speakers. The 25 watt speakers should hold up fine since punk really requires one to turn the bass DOWN!

4) As you know already, run EL-34s. I wouldn't shy away from the modern channel. If you EQ it right, it can be even more crunchy and defined than the vintage channel. I find the vintage mode works best for a lead tone.

**edit**

Oh, this reminds me. I'd run the gain tone at 50watts with two power tubes pulled or with the power tube option set to 50watts, depending on whether you have a reborn dual or not. This will give you a clearer and brighter tone which is better for punk.

 

[rocknroll9225]

The 2 channels are pretty bright.

Really? i always heard they were warmer.

Who said an amp can't be bright and warm?

 

[BostonRedSox]

For pure punk tone, I'd say a Recto isn't necessary. Punk tone is not about gain and bottom-end -- its about cut and rudeness.

I would say get a Vox AC-30 Handwired or a Fender '57 Twin Reissue.

Pure punk tone. Even Thrice uses these nowadays and swears by them. Their musical style is all over the place! Don't get me wrong, I love Rectos and they are my favorite amp of all time, but they aren't necessarily a punk amp. They can do punk and a lot of punk bands have used them, but a lot of punk bands use other amps too.

Green Day and AFI, while being two mainstream punk acts, didn't used to be. Both bands use Marshalls and EL34 amps to get that cutting upper-midrange. Blink used Mesa's until switching to Vox AC30s. Ash uses Mesa Triple Recs now. Mr. T Experience and a lot of the Lookout Records bands were strictly Marshall or Fender.

The key though is don't overdo the gain. With a Dual Rectifier, for punk, I'd say having the gain at about 11 o'clock should suffice.

 

[b0nkersx]

Who said an amp can't be bright and warm?

That's the thing with guitarists on the internet.. adjectives used to describe tone are reaaaaaaaally subjective, especially when you run into buzz-words like "more musical" or "more harmonics"

 

[theweatherman]

The T-Verb is darker than the standard 2 channel. That's not a bad thing. Their voicing is comparable to a roadster. Any two channel is going to be tighter than the previous 3 channels. But being Rectos, they still have massive low end at the ready. In my experience I find the vintage mode on the Tremoverb to be much more usable than on any other Recto I've played. Also, if you like vintage mode a lot, the two channels and tremoverb do allow you to "clone" the channel containing vintage high gain to the Red channel. Presence circuitry is interesting too as you have access to both presence controls in the Red channel with both enabled. Also the cleans on the Tremoverb are much more organic sounding than on any other Recto I played. They're not a super clean clean, but getting past that, they have a great depth in sound. The Blues mode can also double as a clean or a crunch channel depending on your settings. The mids get kicked up a little more too. Very versatile, usable mode. Also, the tube reverb IMO is to die for. So good.

I've played a couple two channels and they are very bright, very aggressive amps compared to the T-Verb I own. I would love to have a two channel just for the little contrasts in tone.

The Reborns have a tighter low end than the 3s and channels 2 and 3 are identical, with less differences than they had on the previous 3 channels. I've been dying to play one, but no one around has one for me to check out yet.

I'd go with the tremoverb overall. Really for what you play, it's the most versatile and easiest to use and set up. I'm not saying the 3 channels are super complicated by any means, as you know from having one. I'm just saying that the versatility of the T-Verb makes it a better amp to have IMO.

very cool! man i need to jam on a tverb. it sounds like what i want. i dont like really super cleans either, much prefer a more rich and organic clean with some fur on it.

 

[theweatherman]

Ok, my $0.02. I think the Tremoverb, 2-Channel, or Reborn are all ridiculously great heads. If you select any of these you won't be disappointed.

Here is what I think will help for punk tone:

1) Play a Fender Strat, Gibson SG, or Gibson Les Paul. Running more vintage style pickups also helps get a wicked crunch. You can dial up the gain to compensate.

2) This is the BIG ONE! Play though a Mesa Stiletto 4 x 12 or a Marshall 1960ax / Marshall Vintage 4 x 12. In my experience, the oversized Rectocab 4 x 12 really emphasizes the highs and bass, while scooping out the midrange. The smaller 4 x 12 really does a lot to focus the midrange punch of a Dual Rectifier. It gives a rounder sound overall.

3) I'd mix Celestion v30s and G12m - 25 reissues in an X pattern for speakers. The 25 watt speakers should hold up fine since punk really requires one to turn the bass DOWN!

4) As you know already, run EL-34s. I wouldn't shy away from the modern channel. If you EQ it right, it can be even more crunchy and defined than the vintage channel. I find the vintage mode works best for a lead tone.

**edit**

Oh, this reminds me. I'd run the gain tone at 50watts with two power tubes pulled or with the power tube option set to 50watts, depending on whether you have a reborn dual or not. This will give you a clearer and brighter tone which is better for punk.

Well great advice, but i dont just play punk. Im also in a party band that plays everything from country to metal.
I do like a sound that cuts, but not harsh and bright and annoying. i like a tone to fill in and not obstruct from the vocals or ruin a mix. but i agree with everything you said. smaller cabs are better for midrange. my recto 2x12 is just so portable, sounds almost like a 4x12, and is built so well that i wont be taaking it out of the equation

 

[theweatherman]

The 2 channels are pretty bright.

Really? i always heard they were warmer.

Who said an amp can't be bright and warm?

true. the mkv is both bright and warm. i just like the darker more lower mid range sound. ala recto

 

[theweatherman]

For pure punk tone, I'd say a Recto isn't necessary. Punk tone is not about gain and bottom-end -- its about cut and rudeness.

I would say get a Vox AC-30 Handwired or a Fender '57 Twin Reissue.

Pure punk tone. Even Thrice uses these nowadays and swears by them. Their musical style is all over the place! Don't get me wrong, I love Rectos and they are my favorite amp of all time, but they aren't necessarily a punk amp. They can do punk and a lot of punk bands have used them, but a lot of punk bands use other amps too.

Green Day and AFI, while being two mainstream punk acts, didn't used to be. Both bands use Marshalls and EL34 amps to get that cutting upper-midrange. Blink used Mesa's until switching to Vox AC30s. Ash uses Mesa Triple Recs now. Mr. T Experience and a lot of the Lookout Records bands were strictly Marshall or Fender.

The key though is don't overdo the gain. With a Dual Rectifier, for punk, I'd say having the gain at about 11 o'clock should suffice.

100% agree. Love thrice and afi. both strict recto users back in the day. honestly, for punk, almost anything goes. there's no one amp to play punk. having said that...some of my favorite punk bands actually mix recto's and marshalls live. those two go together so well. lugging around 2 amps to every gig is over the top without roadies! I think having the recto model with the best midrange possible, dropping in el34s, kicking up the mids and running v30s oughta get me close to that recto/marshall rig.

 

[BostonRedSox]

Honestly, I think you should just get a Roadster and be done with it. It can do everything pretty well. Dirty cleans, pristine cleans, blues, tweed, some Brit-style hi midgrange, Recto sludge, bright Recto cutting gain, etc, etc.

If you are planning on trying one out, let us know. There are a lot of Roadster users on here that have a lot of settings we could offer you. Many of us have spent years tweaking and finding out the nuances of the amp's four channels. I'd spend an hour just jamming away, tweaking and listening to get a good feel for what that amp can do.

And be sure to use a Recto 412 if you can. I used one of those cabs and I was sold on the spot. I'd get a Recto 412, but that is too much for me to lug around.

 

[BostonRedSox]

I just realized that you've already owned a Roadster. In that case, go with something different -- like a reborn Triple Rectifier.

Why did you get rid of the ED?

 

[YellowJacket]

Well great advice, but i dont just play punk. Im also in a party band that plays everything from country to metal.
I do like a sound that cuts, but not harsh and bright and annoying. i like a tone to fill in and not obstruct from the vocals or ruin a mix. but i agree with everything you said. smaller cabs are better for midrange. my recto 2x12 is just so portable, sounds almost like a 4x12, and is built so well that i wont be taaking it out of the equation

Bright doesn't automatically equal harsh! I advocate less power tubes because running four can get really thick and heavy fast.
If you want to play multiple styles why not buy a Roadster? If you want to play multiple styles with similar settings on one head, one great way to accomplish that is to have three or four different axes, each with different hardware. You'd be surprised how much you can tailor your sound this way. i.e. Strat with single coil pickups for blues or light stuff, Gibson with Alnico II humbuckers for punk, and a Jackson with high output ceramic passives or even high output actives for metal.

I don't know what you are running for axes. I have noticed something weird with my guitars. My Les Paul sounds best on the modern channel for crunch tones, this is without exception. (for lighter music, I just roll the gain WAY back) My other guitar (A godin LG with Duncans) sounds best on the vintage channel. Go figure. I have two 2 x 12s. The one is an oversized cab which is more scooped and great for heavy modern stuff and great dark jazz style cleans. The other one is a thiele cab. It is more midrange emphasized, and really does punk (and other lighter tones) well.

If you like clean with some breakup, dialing back the volume on the guitar is FANTASTIC for that. I put Bare Knuckle pickups in my Les Paul and I replaced the electronics. The result is that I can get great cleans by backing the volume pot way down. It also does great crunch. Whatever you do, DON'T UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF YOUR VOLUME KNOB as a tone shaping tool. You can get a million different shades of clean and crunch this way.

FWIW, Seymour Duncan is now selling a guitar preamp which can be used to switch a passive pickup into an active one. That may be useful for what you're after. Upgrade electronic in your guitar so you can do anywhere from blues to rock with the twist of a volume knob. Then when you want metal, just flip the preamp on to boost the pickups!!

 

[Elpelotero]

Based on the tone you seek, I say go for Tverb. Your description of the tone you like sounds like late 90's incubus. Warm, loose high gain and the sweet vintage/blues tone.

 

[BostonRedSox]

Based on the tone you seek, I say go for Tverb. Your description of the tone you like sounds like late 90's incubus. Warm, loose high gain and the sweet vintage/blues tone.

Ah, this is another band that used to use Rectos, and now swear by Vox AC30's and Marshall's as well.

 

[greatmutah]

I like how a few people have suggested a Roadster even though you already had one and sold one because as you said it was too much amp. Way to read... I really don't think you can go wrong with any of your choices, but out of the 3, I'd go with either of the 2 channel models. I'm not opposed to the Reborn amps myself, but I understand the need for simplicity. I've had 3 channel amps and wound up using one or two tops. And while 4 does sound awesome for options, I get not needing that much amp. The Recto 2x12 is a huge, huge sounding cab. Anything you pair with it is going to sound monstrous, but you already know that. Honestly, it comes down to preference. For me the Tremoverb is easier to tame the top end on than the others. You can get plenty of snarl and rudeness out of any Recto... It's the Presence knob, especially on modern.

One thing that I should mention is with the older two channels, you have channel cloning and that produces some interesting options. Being able to have two vintage channels is awesome (which I know the 3 channels are capable of), but the cloning option gives you a vintage channel with a more full power section more akin to the modern setting. Also, your presence knobs on both channels affect your tone and allow you to contour and shape it further. It's a sweet function and one I've recently started taking advantage of. It works like this. On the normal vintage voicing on any Recto, the Presence controls the top end "cut" more or less. It's like a treble on top of a treble. On modern mode, that presence is moved to a different part of the circuit that to me doesn't so much act as a treble on top of treble, but acts more as a "throat" control for the amp. It's still in the upper register, but more of an upper mid presence than just straight treble. When you clone the red channel to orange specs and kick it into modern mode, it's the vintage voicing, but with the added oomph of modern's volume plus the ability to contour your presence from two sides of the spectrum. It's a really unique feature of the 2 channels.

Honestly, try them out. What I may like you may not and vice versa. If you know anyone locally by you that has a Tremoverb for sale, go over and play the hell out of it. Same with the standard 2 channel and the Reborn. See what you like the most. FWIW, I have a Series II Single Rec which is voiced similarly to the older 3 channels, and I like my Tremoverb more. I still use my Single Rec because it does come across as more aggressive, but for a better balance I like my T-verb. Go figure.

 

[droptrd]

What it comes down to is they all sound like rectos. Each with there own personality. If you twist the knobs you can get simula results from each. My advice would be to evaluate what you want in an amp.... # of channels? Reverb? Loop (series/parallel)? Price? Do you need a warranty? How important is clean tones?

If you dont need a warranty you can save almost a grand by buying a tverb or 2ch solo head.
2ch solo heads are easier to find so if you dont need reverb (or tremolo) you can skip the tverbs
Is a great clean tone important? th 2010s and Tverbs have good clean tones. The 2chs dont IMO
If you dig the vintage gain, the Tverb is the best IMO. Not as muddy.
How much gain do you use? The Tverbs have alot LESS gain than the 2010 and 2chs. You would need an OD/boost for uber metal
is 2 chs enough for you?

Basically Im saying the tones are all good. It all comes down to cost, availability and specs.

Try not to pull your hair out

 

[theweatherman]

I just realized that you've already owned a Roadster. In that case, go with something different -- like a reborn Triple Rectifier.

Why did you get rid of the ED?

i liked the roadster, but as i said, im looking for a more simple rig. i love riding the vol on my les paul. thats how i get my shades of drive. the ED was an awesome amp. in the end it's super stiff feel and lack of gain drove me away from it. but one of the coolest amps ive ever owned. great for the lower to medium gain needs.