NOS Tubes

[sevycat]

Are the NOS tubes worth the price of admission? Probably this question has been asked before and will be asked again. How do you justify the price vs. the benifit? Are they all that in terms of gaining a better tonal colour?

I am considering investing in some tubes, both preamp and power. I just wonder if I will hear the difference over stock factory tubes. I am going to retube my mark III and pick up some for my recent purchase, mark v.

Also, What is the deal with the mesa power tubes color code? They have Grey, Blue, etc... What does this mean?

 

[dodger916]

To my middle-aged ears, there is a noticeable difference, meaning improvement over current production Mesa preamp tubes. I play mostly low to mid-gain stuff, except for the occasional Mark IV creamy solo. Vintage Tung-Sols preamps in V1 and V3 of my Mark IV increased the vintage vibe, eliminating most of the "Modern" voicing I don't prefer. I run Amperex ECC83 in V1 and V3 of my C+, and a Tung Sol in V2. The Amperex is a little brighter than the Tung Sols, which I prefer in the C+ (with bright reduction mod). Again, I don't play metal, so for me vintage tubes are great.

With power tubes, I've had luck with new production STR 420s and 5881s in my Mark IV. But the jackpot was scoring two vintage pair of Sylvania dual getter 6L6s for the C+. These were also labelled Mesa STR 415. I was skeptical at first, but there is certainly an improvement over the current production tubes I'd been running in the C+. I'd rolled between 6L6 Winged C's (also great), STR 440s and Groove Tube 6L6 GE. But the two pair of Sylvanias are it for me...not surprising since these were the tubes in production when the C+ was conceived. REMEMBER: when considering power tubes, they must fall within Mesa's fixed bias operating specs. Reputable dealers of new tubes will know which tubes fall into this range.

Concerning price, you can get good deals if you're patient and know what to look for. There are good deals and good dealers on eBay; there are some losers there too. You'll need to understand what the various tube tester measurements mean (mutual conductance, emissions, current draw etc..). Or you can buy from on-line dealers, but they get pricey. I've gotten great preamp tubes for less than $30 shipped, even less if the auction is for more than one tube. It helps to buy from someone who accepts returns as vintage tubes can test great and be noisey or microphonic. Patience is key. Try one in V1 and go from there.

 

[MrMarkIII]

+1
The colors are meant to match tubes into pairs. That's all.
Any green will work with any other green, red with red, etc.
Power tubes are always matched into pairs, pre-amp tubes, not. The colors have nothing to do with tone or gain or anything else.
I found the Amperex a bit too bright for my Mark III and preferred Mullards. The Amperex are definitely more finely detailed in the treble region. Very Hi-Fi to my ears. I just like the Mullard mids. Mellows out the Mark III.
NOS tubes are great for better cleans and subtle overdrive shadings. Less harshness, richer mids. They may not make a huge difference if you max out the gain all the time, or like a more aggressive sound.
STR-415s are da bomb. So are STR-450s and 454s.
But I'm old and deaf, so just my two cents

 

[sevycat]

Thanks, I now understand about the color code, which was not something that was easy for me to find info on. I guess I will have to take the plunge and see. Maybe, I will pick up some preamp lower gain preamp tubes for the v1 position. Looking to get Some NOS 6L6's and some NOS El 34's.

So what is everyones general consideration as to what is the be all end all in these respective tubes to have?

Also, if I run a quad set of 6L6's, do they all need to be the same color code?

 

[MrMarkIII]

Quads are run like this:
A - B - B - A.
Just like your favorite disco band! :lol:
The "A's" are the same color, the "B's" can be different (or the same).
Here's a rundown on pre-amp tube gain factors:
12AX7 = 100
5751 = 70
12AT7 = 60
12AY7 = 45
12AU7 = 19
Roughly, what this means is, if you like the distortion you get with a 12AX7 and running the knob at 6, if you plug in a 12AT7, to get the same level of grit, you now need to turn the knob up to 10, because there's 40% less gain.
Roughly.
You should start with maybe a NOS 12AX7 ($30-50) and put it in the V1 slot. That's the first pre-amp tube, the one closest to the input jack.
NOS power tubes can be $150-200 a pair.
If you haven't done so, go to the Mesa website and download the manual. There's a chart at the end that tells you what each pre-amp tube does.
Crank it!

 

[LerxstLee]

Thanks, I now understand about the color code, which was not something that was easy for me to find info on. I guess I will have to take the plunge and see. Maybe, I will pick up some preamp lower gain preamp tubes for the v1 position. Looking to get Some NOS 6L6's and some NOS El 34's.

So what is everyones general consideration as to what is the be all end all in these respective tubes to have?

Also, if I run a quad set of 6L6's, do they all need to be the same color code?

If you want to try some great EL34s, these are tested and spec'd from mesa, the price might seem high, yet the lowest I see them on ebay is $99.00, and who knows what the rating is, nor if they are even reliable. If you were to score a whole case of these tubes, at best half of them are weak and no good. Mesa uses their "robotube" to test and match them.
They also give the tubes a reasonable wack with the wooden end of a mallet which would give a borderline tube a short.
So for the price with the guarantee mesa gives, these are well priced. If some of the online tube stores have these in stock they are about the same price and they are not beating them to make sure you get a great set. They might test them but seimens tubes tend to be fragile. $150.00 for a pair might seem high but I cannot imagine anyone not likeing these tubes. Check them out. http://store.mesahollywood.com/750609.html

 

[212Mavguy]

Hi Sevycat,

it's best to have the idea/attitude thet there is no be all end all NOS or VOS tube brand or design any more than putting a bunch of horny bachelor party dudes in a titty bar and having them rate the best boobs on the dancers...different ones please different persons the most! :wink: You just have to play with 'em and despite what you like now, you might find some others that you like bettah at a later time!... :lol: peace.

 

[MrMarkIII]

This is, quite possibly, the most cogent and harmonically convergent post ever to appear on any forum, anywhere.
Tubes and Boobs, indeed!

 

[Riff Blister]

I like to think of it this way.

Tubes: NOS= Good

Boobs: NOS= Not so much

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[dodger916]

I like to think of it this way.

Tubes: NOS= Good

Boobs: NOS= Not so much

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Like NOS tubes, you have to be discriminating, but when you find good ones, they will blow away current production models!

 

[jpdennis]

Since this is for NOS tubes just a word of warning about NOS 6BQ5 tubes. The following article is important to me since I have a .50 Caliber 6BQ5. You may want to check with Monsta-Tone or Boogiebabies for an accurate run down on your amp if you run these tubes or ever get an amp that does.

http://www.kcanostubes.com/categories/32/1/6BQ5-EL84-7189A.htm

Respectfully,

Dennis

 

[sevycat]

This is, quite possibly, the most cogent and harmonically convergent post ever to appear on any forum, anywhere.
Tubes and Boobs, indeed!

I was thinking the same thing when I read it, I just was not going to be the first one to acknowledge it.