Nomad 45 volume/gain issues

[Force]

My Nomad seems to go into a weird oscillation, kind of a helicopter chop sound if I try to turn it up much past 10 o clock on the output or the channel masters. I just picked this amp up used, and only got to audition it at "bedroom" levels at the persons house where I picked it up, but now when trying it out at louder levels, i realized the problem. I love the tone it puts out at low levels, just surprised you can't crank it up to normal live band volumes.

Also to describle the symptom better, the problem is like it is "overloaded", ie" crappy/fuzzy if I try to turn up the channel gain on ch. 2 or 3 much past 10 o clock.

i changed out all the tubes, but the issue is still there. it is fine at low volume (bedroom level, but does not seem to be able to handle any louder settings or higher gain settings above 11 0 clock.

I realize you can't "dime" the levels w/o some potential problems/microphonics, but i am not anywhere near max gain or volume.

It seems the amp is not "putting out" like it should even at resonable level setting in the 12-3 o' clock region.

Even at lower gain settings like 10-11 o' clock,, I do not seem to be able to get very much volume out of this amp.

(fyi, I own a Mk IV which has ungodly volume, even at "2" let alone higher so maybe I am spoiled, but I have heard plenty of 40 watt Fenders and Peaveys even that are VERY loud at a volume of "3", so i know something is not right in my Nomad.

Anyone know what might cause these issues to occur other than tube failure or weak tubes?

Thanks for any advice!!!

 

[domct203]

Make sure you are matching the ohms of your cab to the right jack on the amp. Also, try a different speaker cable (it is a speaker cable right? NOT an instument cable?)

Dom

 

[Force]

right now it is hooked up to the internal combo speaker, 8 ohm, w/ the oe spkr. cable.

 

[fabien]

Is the loop send pot set to zero (providing you don't use the loop)?
Does it do it on all channels and all modes?
If you disable the speaker (little switch on the back) and plug a headphone (headphone/recording jack on the back) does it still do it? Watch out for your hearing here.
Try tapping the tone out from the loop send and see if it happens there as well.
Reverb problem maybe?

I've got a Nomad 45 and love it, It's a great amp. Sincerely hope you'll find the trouble.
You might have to go to an amp tech though but believe me this amp is worth fixing.

Fabien

 

[Force]

Hey Fabien,
I'll give those tip a try here in just a little bit, and will report back!!!

thanks,
Force

 

[Force]

Fabien,
i did try your suggestions. the send pot is now set to zero, but turning does not seem to have any effect on volume. I have found that the problem is not present on channel 1, either clean or pushed. the problem seems to be MOST apparent on ch. 3, when I try to push the channel volume past 12 o clock w/ the gain up above 12 o clock. that's when weird things start to happen, as the output (master) volume is raised above 11 o clock.

However, as I have dialed most of the bass out is seems to be able to hold it's own a little better if I don't push the gain or volume to high.

I would probably like to be able to run the gain in ch 3 in the 2 to 3 o clock regions, and push the overall output master up more, but that seems to cause that overloaded helicopter sound, kind of a "fluttering" type of noise.

As long as the volumes are not pushed to much, it's sounding pretty great though.

I am wondering what tubes you have tried?? Maybe I should get some Mesa SPAX7's, and experiment with an different set of EL84's too.

At lower volumes, with a little less gain, I have to say there are some amazing tones coming out of this thing, mic'd up it would really be incredible, and a great addition to my Mk IV. I am planning to use it as club amp for smaller gigs, for a practice amp, and also considering running it through a 4x12, w/ my Mk IV and perhaps even slaving the Nomad into a Mesa power amp later on down the road and into a 4x12 (or two!), once i get the amp dialed in the way it should be.

i am also wondering if maybe there is some kind capacitor or cap/s that might need replacing?? I will probably take it a authorized Mesa tech to have it checked out, but I'd like to see what effect different tubes may have on it that you or others have tried first b4 going to a tech.

thanks for the help! much appreciated.

 

[fabien]

Force,
Glad I can be of any help!

The loop send has indeed very little effect though it's better set to zero when not used, it was more like a shot in the dark, you never know.

Now with channel 1 out of the way (what about channel 2?) it looks like a cascading gain situation. I remember having read somewhere in one of the Mesa user manual that too much gain can create ocilliation/feedback of some sort, next to some microphonie in preamp tubes. The rule no1 with all Mesa amps is: don't dime controls like some would be metal-heads are used to do on other amps (Mo' betta' gain man!), there's much to much gain in those boxes.
Your gain settings on channel 3 and output seem to me pretty high.

I put the channel 1 gain at 12 o'clock to get a warm tone but stay absolutely clean and volume just over 12 o'clock, that feeds the right level into my G Major in the loop. Now the volume setting of the two other channels is then set accordingly to balance with channel 1.
Gain on channel 2 is around 1 o'clock and volume around 11 o'clock (by memory, I'm at work). I use channel 3 as a crunch channel so gain is between 9 and 10 o'clock but even then volume is under 12 o'clock and it's balanced with the other channels.
With the band at rehearshal or live the master output doesn't go over 11 o'clock.

I wonder if with a high gain setting the volume musn't stay under 12 o'clock and if you need more volume then raise the output master.
If you need even more volume did you try to use the 'extreme' setting (mini toggle switch on the back of the amp) the tone texture changes a bit but the amount of volume is frightening for a 4 EL84 amp!

I have now JJ tubes in pre and power amp, to me they sound a bit warmer than the Sovtek. My experience is that except for V1 the impact of tube to my ears is not as dramatic as I would have thought. If you want to modify/improve your tone, try swaping speakers, it's marginally pricier but much more hearable.

Since you have a Mk IV to A/B with the Nomad 45 could you comment some? I'm thinking about getting one someday because I like the 6L6 tone a lot and because I think it might be a bit quiter than the Nomad. Could you compare the Nomad channel 2 and the Mk lead channel and comment on the crunch tone you can get out of it?

Fabien

 

[Force]

thanks again bro. ch. 2 on the Nomad seems to do a really nice job. ch 3 is the problem child. However, having read through your post and seeing your volume gain settings, I think I am seeing that using higher volume settings w/ high gain(above 12) settings on ch. 3 may not be a usable combination on this amp.

the tones are great however, I mainly got it to enjoy the tone of the EL84's, just not as loud an amp as I might have thought, but there could still be something in the amp that is limiting the output volume somewhat. I'll let you know how things play out, but I think the amp has great potential, and will work fine if it is miked up. I do have a 4x12 to run it through for variation, though that won't change the volume.

Moving on to the MkIV, i would say if you like the Nomad, you will love, and i mean LOVE the Mk IV. The "IV" has got to be the best amp deal on the planet. Since you can usually pick up a nice used one for around $1000-1200.00 on the bay or elsewhere, it is quite the deal compared to a lot of 2k dollar amps out there and will still blow most of them away. there is really nothing the mkIV cannot do, and do well. Petrucci just switched his rig over to (2) Mk IV's & a LSC for his clean tone. He was using RK's, and a couple Mk II C's.

Anway, for me the EQ is what really makes the Mk IV. It is the icing on the cake, and there are several cool configurations you can set on the front and back panels, using the "fat" pull settings, and configuring modes on the rear panel. By the way, the clean chanel is also amazing on the Mk IV. I used to be a Fender guy becasue the cleans/pushed sounds, and used to use pedals for my overdrive/distortion, but the Mk IV will hold it's own or surpass any deluxe reverb/twin/etc. one you get 'er dialed in.

Ch 2 onthe Mk is a bit of mystery channel to me, but in a nutshell it covers the AC/DC - Bad Company, et. all, tones incredibly well, I would summarize ch 2 as primarily a Marshally type of hot rodded JCM 800 kind of tone, which is how I believe Mesa intended it to be.

Ch 3 is the bomb bro. From mild to wild. Having the Lead drive, in combination w. the channel gain sets this amp apart, then throw in the EQ, and the "Fat" setting, and pick your poison: all 6L6, (2) 6's + (2) 34's, then dial in either Class "A" + triode mode, and choose "harmonics" setting, w/ Tweed (low power), ~OR~ get bold w/ Pentode and simulclass, and hit "mid gain" and you can always switch to high power, and pretty much rule the world.

I will always have a Mk IV. I may eventually add a Roadster, a Stiletto, or who knows may come along, but I have really grown to dig the Mesa gear, I like their build quality, amp architechture and tone philosophy.

I notice you use a TC effects processor, the MK will allow you to assign the effects loop to a certain channel so it will come on automatically when you select that channel, plus the footswitch has a Loop selection on it, so you can additionally engage it manually at any time, same goes for the eq, it is footswitchable. Of course you can use 1/4 outs to run individual manual footswitches instead of the supplied footswitch.

The Mark IV is always there for me, day after day, gig after gig. The volume is unreal, & it's a great amp. After owning it for two years, i am still discovering new tone variations with it!!

I have played through many amps, and owned many as well, I've worked in music stores, the whole nine, and I am telling you the Mk IV is one of the greatest amps ever made, should easily in make anybody's "top 10" amp's in the world list.

thanks,
Force

 

[Force]

thanks again bro. ch. 2 on the Nomad seems to do a really nice job. ch 3 is the problem child. However, having read through your post and seeing your volume gain settings, I think I am seeing that using higher volume settings w/ high gain(above 12) settings on ch. 3 may not be a usable combination on this amp.

the tones are great however, I mainly got it to enjoy the tone of the EL84's, just not as loud an amp as I might have thought, but there could still be something in the amp that is limiting the output volume somewhat. I'll let you know how things play out, but I think the amp has great potential, and will work fine if it is miked up. I do have a 4x12 to run it through for variation, though that won't change the volume.

Moving on to the MkIV, i would say if you like the Nomad, you will love, and i mean LOVE the Mk IV. The "IV" has got to be the best amp deal on the planet. Since you can usually pick up a nice used one for around $1000-1200.00 on the bay or elsewhere, it is quite the deal compared to a lot of 2k dollar amps out there and will still blow most of them away. there is really nothing the mkIV cannot do, and do well. Petrucci just switched his rig over to (2) Mk IV's & a LSC for his clean tone. He was using RK's, and a couple Mk II C's.

Anway, for me the EQ is what really makes the Mk IV. It is the icing on the cake, and there are several cool configurations you can set on the front and back panels, using the "fat" pull settings, and configuring modes on the rear panel. By the way, the clean chanel is also amazing on the Mk IV. I used to be a Fender guy becasue the cleans/pushed sounds, and used to use pedals for my overdrive/distortion, but the Mk IV will hold it's own or surpass any deluxe reverb/twin/etc. one you get 'er dialed in.

Ch 2 onthe Mk is a bit of mystery channel to me, but in a nutshell it covers the AC/DC - Bad Company, et. all, tones incredibly well, I would summarize ch 2 as primarily a Marshally type of hot rodded JCM 800 kind of tone, which is how I believe Mesa intended it to be.

Ch 3 is the bomb bro. From mild to wild. Having the Lead drive, in combination w. the channel gain sets this amp apart, then throw in the EQ, and the "Fat" setting, and pick your poison: all 6L6, (2) 6's + (2) 34's, then dial in either Class "A" + triode mode, and choose "harmonics" setting, w/ Tweed (low power), ~OR~ get bold w/ Pentode and simulclass, and hit "mid gain" and you can always switch to high power, and pretty much rule the world.

I will always have a Mk IV. I may eventually add a Roadster, a Stiletto, or who knows may come along, but I have really grown to dig the Mesa gear, I like their build quality, amp architechture and tone philosophy.

I notice you use a TC effects processor, the MK will allow you to assign the effects loop to a certain channel so it will come on automatically when you select that channel, plus the footswitch has a Loop selection on it, so you can additionally engage it manually at any time, same goes for the eq, it is footswitchable. Of course you can use 1/4 outs to run individual manual footswitches instead of the supplied footswitch.

The Mark IV is always there for me, day after day, gig after gig. The volume is unreal, & it's a great amp. After owning it for two years, i am still discovering new tone variations with it!!

I have played through many amps, and owned many as well, I've worked in music stores, the whole nine, and I am telling you the Mk IV is one of the greatest amps ever made, should easily make anybody's "top 10" amp's in the world list.

thanks,
Force

 

[fabien]

Thanks for your Mk IV review, it makes it very tempting. Bad for my GAS :evil:

Indeed I think you're trying to push the Nomad too far on gain/volume. Keep in mind it's only a 4xEL84 amp so it won't match the Mk IV.
On the bright side it's good for your hearing 8)

Fabien

 

[Force]

I forgot about this thread, but I did get my Nomad 45 running properly. The problem ended up being a bad output transformer. I took it to a authorized Mesa repair shop, and they discovered the problem and orderd a replacement from Mesa Boogie.

To Mesa Boogie's credit, though the transformer was only putting out a marginal amount, the amp still ran.

In any event, it SCREAMS now! It is so loud, whoa.... :!:

I am loving this amp. So much so, that I have gone to a two amp setup, running it alongside my Mark IV combo.