New to the Mark IV

[Kessel]

Well, new is maybe an exaggeration, but we're starting to gig more often now (having been in the studio where I can tweak forever and turn the thing up super loud). So I'm trying to get a few things sorted with using this amp in a club/bar environment.

The main problem I'm still having is with the R1 clean tone, which is really kind of quacky-- I mean that it sounds decent if I play gently but if I hit the strings too hard it honks pretty badly. I would guess that turning up the Gain might help this (?) but there's also a little less headroom than I expected, so it already seems to break up pretty quickly, and I really want a proper clean sound.

Aside from that my other main question is on the merits of getting an attenuator. I look around the forums suggests that opinions are pretty split on this, but I really can't turn the output volume over like 1.5 in practice or gigging and I really think the tone just isn't right because of it. I've heard, though, that attenuators don't do much for Boogies because of which tubes do most of the work in the amp?

Oh, one other random question-- the Lead EQ setting is way louder than the simple Lead setting. This is probably just because of the EQ curve I have, but is there any indication that the GEQ adds gain?

Any and all thoughts and advice would be much appreciated.

 

[fishyfishfish]

I can speak for the Attenuator. Good and Bad. I used one for a while for my Boogies and while I could turn up the volume It didn't make the amp "Crunch Up" like an old Marshall. You do get a little more drive, but only if you want to stock up on tubes. If you like the tone with the amp on 1, then no big deal.

 

[Fronzil]

what are your knob settings for rhythm 1? tweed/fullpower, simulclass/class A, pentode/triode etc..i generally get solid cleans out of the IV..don't have any problem with it breaking up on me when not intended..they're no lonestar cleans, but you can definitely get good sounds from that channel.

 

[primeholy]

Each channel has their own independent volume control so you should be able to keep the levels the same. Wonder if trying different preamp tubes could help, but if you cant get louder than 1.5 at practice even IDK what will help. Maybe a different amp for your situation?

 

[mrd]

The GEQ adds gain, that's what it's for. It's frequency specific gain.

 

[stephen sawall]

I use a Hot Plate a lot .... I do not use it with the IV. It does not do much to help the IV. I do not turn the amp above 2 much live. 1.5 ~ 2.5 is normal stage volume for me. The Hot Plate is for getting more power amp distortion. The IV is based on preamp distortion..... or the small tubes.

You may want to turn down the channel masters and turn up the master.

The EQ well add gain on any band that is above the middle line. Below that line cuts. You can use the same shape (yours) and move all the bands to cut or boost in relation to the lead non EQ sound

These are just guide lines not rules ......
If you are not getting enough clean from the clean channel ...
Turn down the clean gain (2~5), turn on the pentode, simulclass, pull bright (for the clean channel) .... set R1 high (7~10). Turn up the master up to the volume you want. Keep the mid (2~5) on this channel. Do not use the EQ on the clean channel.

Once you find a clean you want ..... now set R2 and LD to the volumes you want.

The whole thing is a balancing act with the IV. Once you know the amp ~ you well have a lot of control over the sound.

The manual is a must read to control this amp .... all the info you need is in this manual

http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/Mark%204.pdf

 

[dwsabianguy]

I will have to say that the best thing I've ever done for my clean tone was to buy a compressor. It helped a lot. I've never had a problem with headroom, but you'll want to check your R1 gain and channel volume - I had my R1 volume too high at one point and I think I ended up clipping the V5 preamp tube somehow. Either way, I turned it down and it's been super clean ever since.

The EQ boosts and cuts gain for each specific bandwidth - this is what any EQ does. But when we use the word "gain" it's not in the distortion sense. It's in the volume sense - EQ boosts and attenuates specific frequencies. Mine ends up making my amp a fair bit louder (I use more or less the standard V shape).

 

[Kessel]

Hey all! Thanks for all the advice so far. It sounds like people generally agree that an attenuator wouldn't help much, but a compressor might.

My amp is up at our rehearsal studio but I got my singer to take a look and give me what setting info he could. It's a MarkIVb, for starters.

Power Amp: Pentode, Simul Class
Lead Voicing: Harmonics

Power tubes: 6L6's in the middle (Mesa Engineering 6L6 GC STR 440); singer wasn't sure about the outside tubes but I seem to recall they're EL34's

Preamp tube: Not sure

Front: I play on Full Power rather than Tweed, because this seems to give a smoother distortion especially in R2. Maybe this has to do with what power tubes are where?

R1: Gain 5, not pulled; Treble 3.5; Bass 6.5; Mid 4; Presence 7; Master 4
R2: Gain 7.5, pulled; Treble 7; Bass 6.5; Mid 4; Presence 7.5; Master 2.5
Lead: Gain 8, pulled; Treble 5.5; Bass 6.5; Mid 6; Drive 6; Presence 6.5; Master 3.5

Finally R2 is set to automatically use the GEQ, which is set in an upside-down V, so 80 and 6600 are flat, 240 and 2200 are boosted slightly, and 750 is boosted a lot. I know this contradicts the dial settings but I think I was trying to get deal with the different needs of R1 and R2.

I tend to be playing around 1.5-2 on the output, depending on the venue etc. I've noticed that there tends to be a sort of volume cutoff right around this setting where anything below about 1.5 is very quiet, and anything above is really loud, and it's very hard to get the sweet spot of proper volume. This is the main problem that I was wondering if an attenuator would help with-- not so much the tone, but the difficulty in getting just the right volume for clubs. There's such a tiny spot where the volume is correct that I've spent entire concerts (where I didn't get a sound check for whatever reason, usually because clubs are jerks) tweaking the Output knob between songs and never quite getting it right. Not fun! Might an attenuator give me a little more leeway to turn the Output knob up higher and therefore get out of this range where a little too low is way too quiet, and a little to high is way too loud?

Oh, and my main guitar is a Godin Summit, fairly Les Paul-like, with Seymour Duncan humbuckers (Alnico 2 in the neck/'59 in the bridge).

So that's it! Thanks again so so much for all the advice. Keep it coming!

 

[ryjan]

Your lack of clean headroom is caused by the el34 power tubes. When I ran them in mine I noticed that the clean channel broke up way, way earlier than with all 6l6 tubes. I have since changed back to all 6l6 tubes for this reason.

 

[Kessel]

Your lack of clean headroom is caused by the el34 power tubes. When I ran them in mine I noticed that the clean channel broke up way, way earlier than with all 6l6 tubes. I have since changed back to all 6l6 tubes for this reason.

Thank you! That is super, super helpful. What effect did switching to all 6L6's have on the R2 and Lead tones?

 

[sparklesmcgraw]

I prefer all 6l6's although I usually run it at bedroom volume on Class A.

I find the 6l6's to have a wonderful thick distortion. They seem a bit brighter and tighter on the bass side of things compared to when I tried EL34's. Granted i never tried them for long.

Get some good quality 6l6's and see how they sound to you.

 

[ryjan]

I didnt care for the el34 tone very much. 6l6 tubes will make the lead channel a lot thicker and punchier and tame the out of control mids that the Marks are famous for. I didnt play around with r2 enough to tell a difference.

 

[stephen sawall]

Plus one on the cleans and el34's.

I do use the Hot Plate like you say sometimes with the IV. I recommend try before you buy.