New (to me) Fillmore 25 - Question & possible PSA

[mojodelic]

Just got a nice Fillmore 25, sounds amazing; love the reverb & features. Almost sent it back though, no sound on chan 2 clean mode. Everything else was fine, including Drive & Hi on chan 2. Checked all the tubes for tightness, even subbed V1 but nothing worked until I noticed the Treble, Middle & Bass were all down on chan 2. Immediate fix, sound came on & full volume everwhere. I guess this makes sense, in a way, but I've never had this on any other amp that I know of.

I had already downloaded the manual & revisited for any info, as far as I know it doesn't say anything about this. Can someone with a Fillmore 25 please turn the T/M/B all the way down & verify that this is normal? The sender did say that it also happened to him.

FWIW this is my first Boogie & I love it!
Thanks,
mojo

 

[bandit2013]

I do not have the filmore but I do have many other Mesa amps. If you dial back all of the tone controls you will get no sound. I am not sure about the Bass TT800 but I believe it will do the same thing. With most amps, it is the treble pot that feeds the next stage, in some cases that would be the gain control. If that is dialed back to zero, and leaving the mid and bass anywhere but zero you will get sound. Dial those controls to zero and you basically get 0V or close to it as they are connected in series to each other. This will result in the signal level to be at ground potential. It is an effective mute. Sometimes you may get some very low signal and that is due to the pot not totally shorting out the resistive element when set fully counterclockwise. Nothing wrong with the amp, it is normal.

I do not believe the Marshall Silver Jubilee will cut out the signal as it has a 1.8k resistance in series with the bass pot, the midrange is more of a parallel circuit.

 

[mojodelic]

Thanks, I really appreciate the response. I assumed it was normal but was a little nervous since I bought the amp used & had nothing to campare it with. My Marshall and all of my Fenders don't do this but it's fine now that I know it's correct.

I was on the fence between the Fillmore & a California Tweed but the Fillmore seems to be the Cali Tweed with a lot more drive options. Now I can relax & enjoy it. Thanks again.

 

[bandit2013]

No problem. At least you know it is ok. Nothing to worry about. All good.

Here is some TMI. You made a good choice if you like the amp.

Filmore is very different from the California tweed. They are not the same. The California Tweed is based off of a 1950's tweed amp but it was never defined which one as a reference. 1955 Bassman? Tweed was more of a description of the covering and that covered several amps in that era made by Fender. If the tone controls on the Filmore are post gain then it would hold true to be based off of the tweed era amps of the 50's. To be honest, I am not sure where the tone stack sits on the California tweed amp.

I did not get the same vibe from Filmore as the California tweed. I had already bought the CT but when I was out in California before Covid-19, I went to the Mesa Hollywood store. There they had a wall of Filmore amps. That was around the time they released the 100W version of the Filmore. I tried it for a little bit. After that, I was happy I bought the California Tweed for what it provides. Characteristic and tone were on different levels. Not saying one is better than the other, just different.

I opted for the California tweed as I have plenty of amps with gain characteristics that cover the Filmore. I wanted something different for that time you just want to play the blues or similar. Nice amp but not happy with other speaker cabinets except for those equipped with the Jenson Jet Blackbird speaker. I got lucky as I jumped on it after it was released, and Mesa was using the 100W version of the Blackbird with the bell cover removed. Also got an extension cab a month later so I can get the speakers broken in at the same time. Break in period on that 100W blackbird will take a few months before the treble begins to bloom. Also I can use the extension cab with my other amps due to is power rating. TC50 is ideal with the Blackbird. I think a few people make the mistake of buying the head believing it can be run with other cabinets. Why is it so bright? may be the common question. I tried running the TC into a Vertica 212 cab, yeah bright is just a fair way to describe it. It just works with the Blackbird speaker.

 

[mojodelic]

I really appreciate the comments! Still on the fence between the two.

 

[mojodelic]

Since there's no California Tweed sub heading I'll just keep this here- LSS I returned the Fillmore & got a CT2:20 today & have no regrets. Not just the comments above but the Fillmore just never did blow up my skirt the way the CT does.

I now have an amp with a 5 year warranty less tubes which I can do myself; also some here claimed that their Fillmores were "dead quiet" but mine made a fair amount of noise at idle (even with no lead plugged in) but again, totally subjective so it could be a perfectly normal noise floor, however the CT 20 is absolutely dead quiet at idle. I was lured into the Fillmore camp thinking I needed a higher gain amp but if I want that I've got a Marshall. I also agree that the
blackbird is a great speaker and haven't even broken it in yet.

I appreciate your candid observations & though other factors helped make my decision you affirmed what my heart was telling me the whole time. This is my first Boogie & most likely my last, at my age I just don't have time to figure out say a Mark VII, although I applaud those that do.

Thanks again.

 

[JAZZGEAR]

Filmore is very different from the California tweed. They are not the same. The California Tweed is based off of a 1950's tweed amp but it was never defined which one as a reference. 1955 Bassman? Tweed was more of a description of the covering and that covered several amps in that era made by Fender. If the tone controls on the Filmore are post gain then it would hold true to be based off of the tweed era amps of the 50's. To be honest, I am not sure where the tone stack sits on the California tweed amp.

I know this is an old thread, but I just came across this statement and couldn’t just let it go unchallenged for the sake of future readers looking for info on these two amps. The above bolded statement and perhaps the rest of it is 100% wrong. Just check out the official Mesa Boogie YouTube video link at around the 10:04 mark comparing these two amps

 

[bandit2013]

Everyone has an opinion, all I did was voice mine. You can disagree with me. I am not expecting you to have the same opinion.

• The best move anyone can take is to play through both, side by side if you can. Only you can decide what amp is best for you.

I had the opportunity to play through both amps at the Mesa Hollywood early in 2019 before Covid.
You may feel they are the same, they are not once you hear them side by side. The video, you have to jump around on the timeline to get a comparison. Tone pallet is quite different. Not saying the Filmore is a bad amp. I liked what I heard. Tried the 100W version as that interested me. I wanted something vintage. The CT was a better fit for me. Some may not like it, that is great too. Filmore is closer to a Fender Twin without the tremolo effect in addition to more drive and gain. Perhaps that is not the best Fender to compare it too. I only went by ear and what sounded good to me. Then the added engineering of the multi-stage power section was also interesting. I geek out about stuff like that so I may seek things differently than others. Does it Chug, I do not care. I wanted something silky smooth and the CT met my expectations. If the CT did not exist, I probably would have bought the Filmore 100W. I never said it was a bad amp to start with so why all the fuss?

From Mesa's own website: I tried to get onto the Legacy Mesa Boogie website as there was more of a discussion on the architecture of the two. Not actually defining a specific target in a tweed or black-face Fender. I see they are both based on a Tweed of sorts but are different amps. They are both great amps, which one fits your desire is up to you to decide.

An Exciting New Realm of Beautifully Simplistic, Tweed-Based Performance​

In the twilight of the 1960s, SF Bay Area amp repairman to the Stars, Randall Smith, was inspired to start building his own amplifiers after coming to a deep appreciation for the ‘50s Tweed circuits. He loved their organic-sounding voice, powerful controls, and the way they smoothly transitioned from clean to clip and back again.
Standing on the shoulders of a giant, Smith’s (and the World’s) first venture into boutique guitar amplification resulted in a new Boogie® amp design inspired by that wonderful, timeless-sounding preamp. Five Decades later we return to pay homage. Now, drawing on these 50 years of experience, we bring forward an exciting new realm of tweed-based performance and authentic 6V6 character. A beautifully simplistic design that raises the bar in the world of vintage tone. The NEW CALIFORNIA TWEED™.
A quick glance at the front panel of the California Tweed reveals single-channel simplicity. Channel features include Normal & Low Inputs, Gain, Treble, Mid, Bass, Presence, Reverb & Master Controls. Our legendary vintage all-tube, long-tank spring reverb with external reverb switching jack and a fully buffered, tube-driven series FX loop round out a feature set that delivers everything you need for golden tone and absolutely nothing more.

A New Strand of Boogie DNA​

Introducing the MESA/Boogie® Fillmore™ 50™. Experience our new vintage-voiced and styled amplifier inspired from the other branch of the Boogie® Family Tree. At the heart and soul of the Fillmore 50, you'll discover–soft clip to saturated–our most expressive gain ever presented in a simple 2 (identical) Channel, 3-Mode platform, served up in traditional-sized and dressed combo and head formats.
Humbly named in tribute to the renowned bi-coastal venues that showcased the biggest names in Classic Rock over decades, this new instrument has been dubbed super-responsive, nuanced, organic…and “vintage-inspired Magic” by those who’ve experienced it. Subtle saturation that serves, not smothers, your style.
PURE VINTAGE INSPIRATION
Discover what the MARK Series success inadvertently postponed for so long. Boogie’s best-kept secret has finally emerged and awaits your touch to ignite a new level of passion in your playing. Key features include:

• 2 Fully Independent, Footswitchable Channels, each with 3 Mode Channel Cloning™
• Channel 1 & 2 Feature: Channel Cloned Clean, Drive & HI Modes, with Independent Gain, Treble, Mid, Bass, Presence, Reverb & Master Controls
• Vintage All-Tube, Long-Tank, Spring Reverb with Independent Channel Controls

 

[JAZZGEAR]

They are different amps in the end…Doug West says as much in the video due to the power tubes, additional channel and mods they did to the gain….. But you were 100% wrong on the part I bolded in my previous post — the video shows that they share the same DNA given that the Fillmore began as a Cali Tweed and then was modded from there to what it became.

Btw that’s an impressive music room you have there, wow!!!

 

[bandit2013]

If that is the case then I would agree. Mesa does not always come forth with what may be different.
Sure the tubes are different. Then again, I did try the CT through a C90 and never expected the amp to sound like an ice pick. No way would I settle for that. They are sonically different, even if they share some common circuits. But you say it was modified so that would set them apart would it not? Also, the CT is running the Blackbird speaker vs the C90 in the Filmore. There is a difference with those speakers as the BB is not as bright as the C90. The Filmore and CT as equipped are similar but there are some differences. Too bad that video did not do a side by side comparison on the spot vs having two separate sessions. CT is much warmer toned, more than likely related to the BB speaker. They are both good amps, no problem there but not the same even if they have the shared DNA. One could claim the JP2C is the same as the Mark VII, well it is if you slave one amp to the other and listen. On their own, they are different mostly due to the power section (only when comparing the CH2 to the IIC mode).

That is just the family room, I did not have room to store the amps in the studio due to lack of space to fit everyone in there with the gear. The only thing that makes noise in the room that is not a Mesa is the drum set. As for the wall of sound, it is in a state of flux. I got into running the two Badlanders with the two Mark VII all at once. Two stereo setups. If it was not for the Mesa TT800 bass rig, I would have more room for the other amps. That wall is long enough for four 412 cabs if the bass rig was not there. I sort of became the drummer but play guitar and bass too, hence the gear in the room.

This picture was taken before the two Badlanders two Mark VII , MWDR and the California tweed. I only set this up to take a Mesa family photo. My home has literally become a music store.

The bad thing is, I have 3 x as many guitars as I do amps. Well, I guess I can die now. Still want to enjoy the toys before that time comes.

I only have the one JP2C but two faceplates. That would explain why one of the Mark VII has the JP2C signature badge on it.