new MK5 owner - your suggestions pls

[K-Roll]

Hey guys, a couple of days, I went to the shop nearby and decided to buy the mk5, so far - I LOVE IT.. As the owner of an early 90s mark 4a version which had to leave home a couple of weeks ago, I wanted to stay in the mark tone ballpark so, it was an instant love at first sig.. hmm.. sound
It took me like .. 5 minutes to dial in each of the channels, I love that all knobs have an effect only on those channels which are assgined to these, unlike my old 4A where I had to do the Rhy1/Rhy2 compromise..

My only concern is the following - as an owner of an old mark 4A switching to the new 5, I can definitelly tell that the 5 sounds darker and less raw than the old 4A the new mk5 sounds in this case lets say a little more refined and sits more in the mix rather than jumps out in your face, but I think I know the reason why- it must be the new JJ preamp tubes..so far, every single amp I owned was sounding dark with JJs in the pre-section and i think this might be the case too
Therefore I'd like to ask you guys, who already own these amps for your advise as I'd like to get the most out of it.
Can you point me to some preamp tube combinations which would provide me with more clarity even with a lot of gain on CH3?

The fact is that I play a 7 string guitar, lets say a certain crossover style in the metal genre where I tend to do lots of unusual chord stuff and I need to really let tones shine when played as I am quite used to hearing all the details.
At this moment, it sounds completely OK in terms - there is no technical issue of any kind no hiss,, its got the balls, the thump, but I know I could do even better, right?

Oh and, I dont think its my settings, I've got the bass pretty low (below 9 o'clock), mids are around 9-10 o'clock, so nothing should really make it mushy (oh and my guitar is quite bright sounding too) and I definitely do not scoop the 750hz, i keep it between the middle and the lower line.. and the cab is a stiletto 4X12

So, if you can point me to any suggestions, I am looking for something which would give me slightly more rawness, definition even with the 7 string B tuning with enough clarity but not brightness for the sake of loosing a fat tone..
e.g. some tubes like - going with all tung sols in preamp section of my old mark 4A caused the sound to be shrilly, trebbly, buzzy and thin at the price of gaining clarity and I know I had there a mix of tubes but cant tell which as it's already gone and it wouldn't apply to the mk5 neither as its a different beast with different architecture..

thanks for any ideas, infos, if there are some of you who play Btuned modern rhytmic stuff and maybe found a good configuration, hit me with some infos pls bye

 

[boogieman60]

Try the preset EQ settings at about 12:00 on the depth knob...that will brighten things up a bit...

 

[K-Roll]

thanks for the suggestion.. I must say that I only like the preset function with CH1.. it does not do it for me with ch2 and ch3 as it scoops too much mids out in the range I'd like them to remain.. but I'll give it one more go with the preset depth on 12:00 as you said thx

 

[screamingdaisy]

When I first bought my Mark V I stuck a TungSol 12AX7 in the V1 position. I don't remember the details of how it changed the tone, but it did brighten things up a bit. I like the results enough that I haven't bothered to change the rest of my tubes yet.

 

[Tuna141]

Congrats on your new amp.

I think I know the reason why- it must be the new JJ preamp tubes..so far, every single amp I owned was sounding dark with JJs in the pre-section and i think this might be the case too

I found the same thing and have improved things by swapping preamp tubes. Here's my thread on the subject, as well as the tubes I ended up with (for now :wink: :

http://www.grailtone.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=53331

In my case, the tube swap helped all channels cut through the mix better.

Good luck.

 

[Cron]

You are right. Having all JJ tubes in the pre sucks the life out of this amp. I went back to all stock tubes the other day as an experiment and what i found was the mkV had really honky mid and irritating highs that were nearly impossible to eq out without castrating the sound. Im not surprised many play these amps in shops or own them for a short while and arent impressed compared to old marks.

The other thing worth noting is the stock chinese power tubes seemed to have a bump in the low mids and the lows werent clear and didnt extend down as deep and as id like. This along with the stock jj pre's gave the amp a "choked" sound in channel 3 and again made it hard to eq. Swapping to Winged C Sed 6L6 after getting the right pre tube combination sent this amp over the edge for me. I did try the sed's previously with the stock jj pre's and werent overly impressed so id recommend sorting out your pre section 1st.

My approach is a liitle different to most who would say swap v1 1st.. I would start with sticking a sovtek lps in the v7 (phase inverter)
Then put a chinese 12ax7 into v3 and v5. Then you can begin your quest for the right v1 tube if you still need it. But play the amp like that for a little while. (yes i have a jj in v1 but the amp sounds great as long as you dont have all jj's in the rest of the pre)

There was a time where i liked a tung-sol in v1 and even thought that combined with a phillips 5751 in the pi it was the holy grail for this amp but it made my amp less raw and caused irritating frequencies at high volumes that again where hard to eq out without killing my sound. It also seemed to lose its nice chimey character after a couple of months.

With my current setup as described above, my amp is easier to eq than its ever been. Every channel and mode sounds great. Hope you find what you are looking for. Good luck.

Ps: i would also recommend trying some different 4x12 cabs just to see if it can steer you in the right direction. I own the stilletto 4x12 along with the oversized recto and also a randall oversized 4x12 (all v30's). Of the three the stiletto is my least favourite with the V. Especially micd up. These are all slant cabs and i do hear that the straight stiletto sounds very nice (some say it sounds closer to the slant recto)

 

[MBJunkie]

K-Roll....

Wow, I still own a mid 90's MkIV"b" widebody combo (great amp), and a 2009 MkV combo. IMO, my MkV is a much brighter sounding amp (in general) than my MkIV widebody!

Sure, I can set my MkV to sound as dark or even darker than my IV if I wish in any mode or channel. However, in general, I feel my MkV combo to be inherently brighter sounding than my IV.

The only main exception to this is the MkI mode of Ch2 on the V where I have to boost treble fairly high, and presence and back down the bass and mids to off to 9 o'clock. However, the IV didn't offer a sound such as this so is not a fair comparison.

Some suggestions:
1. Don't be afraid to set your mid knob higher than you are accustomed to doing (11 - 2 o'clock). The mid setting can add brightness and girth in some modes.
2. Definitely engage the "bright switch" on Ch3 if you haven't already given that a go.
3. Also experiment with "triode or pentode setting" in Ch3.....I prefer triode for a brighter...less forceful sound in Ch3.
4. Be sure to give Extreme mode (Ch3) a chance as it is capable of excellent sounds with great definition that are unachievable from my IV IMO.
5. Try the "Edge mode" of Ch2 which is not available at all in the IV. Be sure to reduce treble and presence a lot, and boost bass in this mode as it is inherently extremely bright.
6. Be sure the "bold" toggle is set to "normal" in Ch1 and be sure to give the "clean and fat modes" a good try with the gain set at 11-12 o'clock.
7. Definitely give the "tweed" mode of Ch1 a chance with the gain set fairly high....and tone knobs to taste. This is one of my favorite sounds out of the V that I was never able to achieve with my IV....especially in 1oW or 45W modes!
8. Definitely experiment with all power amp mode settings (10, 45, 90W) for all modes of each channel. I find some amazing sounds while rehearsing with my band with all channels set to 10W. 10W mode can still be quite loud.

Anyway, based on your post and a recent post by Tuna.....maybe Mesa has recently changed suppliers for their preamp tubes? My MkV "stock" definitely doesn't sound darker than my MkIV....just the opposite without even trying.

Just curious.....is your MkIVa and MkV a combo or head/cab(s)? Does your MkIVa / MkV contain stock mesa tube or others? Basically, are you comparing apples to apples between your amps/cabs/guitars?

Please keep in mind that I am comparing my experiences of my '95 MkIV widebody 112 combo to my 2009 MkV 112 combo using stock MB preamp tubes and MB 6L6 power tubes....while playing both using the same guitar.......a very nice HSS strat type guitar.

I hope this helps and best of luck!

 

[MBJunkie]

I just now saw Crons post after completing my previous post.

It definitely sounds to me the preamp tubes offered in the current MkV are not up to par with those I received stock in my amp 1-1/2 years ago (regardless of brand) based on the recent posts by OP, Tuna and Crons posts. BTW....I am not doubting any of your observations or recommendations at all. Quite the contrary. Honestly, I am wondering what is going on with the new tubes?

FWIW....my amp doesn't sound "dull, dead or honky" with the stock tubes, and my MkV combo is definitely a brighter sounding amp than my MkIV widebody combo. BTW....while my MkIV is '95...it has reasonably new MB preamp tubes and MB 6L6 power amp tubes that sound very good.

By all means.....if things aren't working for you with stock tubes......swap out.

Hopefully all of you end up achieving great sounds with your V!

 

[K-Roll]

hey guys

if you just swap the PI to a 5751 or lets say the sovtek LPS, what may i expect sound-wise/gain wise? thanks for all your ideas, this forum'has really been a huge well of knowledge for me eversince I had a boogie.. cheers

oh and one more thing guys, if you ever decide you need to buy some new power amp tubes and you'd like to get some =C= 6L6s and not stick with stock ones, do you always require these other-branded ones to have some specific values as the bias is set firm in this amp?

 

[Cron]

I just now saw Crons post after completing my previous post.

It definitely sounds to me the preamp tubes offered in the current MkV are not up to par with those I received stock in my amp 1-1/2 years ago (regardless of brand) based on the recent posts by OP, Tuna and Crons posts. BTW....I am not doubting any of your observations or recommendations at all. Quite the contrary. Honestly, I am wondering what is going on with the new tubes?

FWIW....my amp doesn't sound "dull, dead or honky" with the stock tubes, and my MkV combo is definitely a brighter sounding amp than my MkIV widebody combo. BTW....while my MkIV is '95...it has reasonably new MB preamp tubes and MB 6L6 power amp tubes that sound very good.

By all means.....if things aren't working for you with stock tubes......swap out.

Hopefully all of you end up achieving great sounds with your V!

I never said my amp was dull with stock tubes.... It was plenty bright but had more of a high mid spike and a non clear low mid that was difficult to eq out. Almost like the tubes added spikes in the frequency range that fell between the graphic eq frequencies hence my difficulty in getting rid of them.

 

[Cron]

hey guys

if you just swap the PI to a 5751 or lets say the sovtek LPS, what may i expect sound-wise/gain wise? thanks for all your ideas, this forum'has really been a huge well of knowledge for me eversince I had a boogie.. cheers

oh and one more thing guys, if you ever decide you need to buy some new power amp tubes and you'd like to get some =C= 6L6s and not stick with stock ones, do you always require these other-branded ones to have some specific values as the bias is set firm in this amp?

Swapping the phase inverter tube has more of an impact on the feel of the amp imho. The 5751 added sag in the attack and once i got round to really cranking the amp it didnt do it for me. The sovtek lps sounds modern and balanced to me.

If you order power tubes from an online store like dougs tubes (highly recommended), you can specify in an email or on paypal checkout instructions that you need your tubes to be suitable for a mesa fixed bias guitar amp and give the model. Most stores will make sure the tubes fall in the right range.

I really like the Sed winged c 6L6's but they are pricey and arent neccesarily known to be the most modern sounding tube, but they work in the V i.m.o. they let the amp "breathe" (if that makes any sense) haha

 

[K-Roll]

[/quote]

I never said my amp was dull with stock tubes.... It was plenty bright but had more of a high mid spike and a non clear low mid that was difficult to eq out. Almost like the tubes added spikes in the frequency range that fell between the graphic eq frequencies hence my difficulty in getting rid of them.[/quote]


I have to say I completely agree with this post having played the amp on my last rehearsal, it plays completely OK, its not dull, theres no major issues-BUT as you said it sounds as if the tubes shifted the sound to a different freq spectrum than I'd like them to..

I think the first thing to do will be to buy the sovtek LPS and just give it try, maybe i'll like maybe not, but I'll buy a tung sol and give that a try for the V1 too. If it wont work out i'll just sell them and keep searching.
As far as chinese tubes in your previous posts were concerned, did you mean any specific ones or just in general?

I'd definitely like the low end to be defined, I'd like to get a tad more rawness or growl/girth if possible and not spikey trebles..

every amp I used to play with JJs (no matter if my old 5150, my mark 4 or a recto) these added smoothness, but someone would say it made the amp sound hmm.. cloudy or.. i dunno how to express myself sry i'm not a native speaker heh


has anyone used RFTs in any of the mark 5 positions and if yes what results did you guys get?
thx

 

[Cron]

As far as chinese tubes in your previous posts were concerned, did you mean any specific ones or just in general?

I'd definitely like the low end to be defined, I'd like to get a tad more rawness or growl/girth if possible and not spikey trebles..

every amp I used to play with JJs (no matter if my old 5150, my mark 4 or a recto) these added smoothness, but someone would say it made the amp sound hmm.. cloudy or.. i dunno how to express myself sry i'm not a native speaker heh

thx

Chinese means manufactured by shuguang. Many companies rebrand them (such as ruby, penta labs etc) but they will all be chinese 9th generation tubes. Here and there you can stll get 8th gen ones but im not sure if they are better/worse/different at all. They can be screened/hand picked for low noise etc for a slightly higher price (recommended if they are going into the early positions of a high gain amp)

On the JJ issue: They are good in small doses... They do add a harmonic middy kinda crunch in their own way but at the expense of articulation and a fast low frequency response in some amps imho. All depends on what your amp/speaker/guitar combination needs or has too much of.

Like you said, just order a couple of tubes to play around with. Some sovtek lps's, some chinese, some tung-sols, a mullard reissue etc and go from there. No need to get more than 2 of the first 3 i mentioned. The mullard RI is nice but more vintage sounding to my ears. If you can get a low noise sovtek lps try it in v1 also. It is one of my favourites for v1 in the mark V (nice and open and not spikey)

 

[eudaimonia02912]

I use an NOS RFT in V1. It rolls off some of the piercing highs, but it remains lively and crunchy, unlike the somewhat dull JJs.

 

[K-Roll]

oh and i've just found two small GT 12AX7Ms lying in my shelf, completely forgot about those.. anyone had luck with tubes like these in a boogie?

 

[Chester]

oh and i've just found two small GT 12AX7Ms lying in my shelf, completely forgot about those.. anyone had luck with tubes like these in a boogie?

I have them in V1 +2 in my MKV. Opened up the base sound nicely

Put them in and see if you like the results

 

[K-Roll]

guys there's one thing i wanted to ask you if you as mk5 users experience too. Is there a slight moment of no sound or a slight moment of silence when switching from lets say channel 2 to channel 3? cause with mine, i can definitely tell that it sounds as if it took the interface a while to switch in between channels. its definitely something i did not experience with the old mk4 so just wanted to be sure its common thx